Bmacleod
Site Supporter
ST1300 Clutch Line
- Thread starter Russ WIlson
- Start date
OP
OP
A few weeks ago I manually bled it after I rebuilt the master cylinder this has been a progressive problem. Its currently at a local shop though not a Honda shop I gave up and drove it up. They ordered a new Honda master kit and are going to rebuild it themselves. They to are stumped and have tried bleeding it , its kind of like you gotta be here to see the bike to fully understand what's going on. Only 38,000 miles on bike, its still and infant.
Last edited:
Spiegler makes a clutch line "kit" for the ST1100, $74.95, braided stainless, PTFD (Teflon). https://spieglerusa.com/catalog/category/view/id/36
I've used Spiegler on two other bikes and they are excellent quality and fast service.
If you haven't already, I'd recommend you replace the rubber brake lines for the same reason. DOT4 eats plastic, paint, and rubber brake lines. They either bulge (aneurysm type) and eventually burst leaving you with no brakes, or chunks of the decomposing line get into the caliper and lock-up the brake. AMHIK.
I've used Spiegler on two other bikes and they are excellent quality and fast service.
If you haven't already, I'd recommend you replace the rubber brake lines for the same reason. DOT4 eats plastic, paint, and rubber brake lines. They either bulge (aneurysm type) and eventually burst leaving you with no brakes, or chunks of the decomposing line get into the caliper and lock-up the brake. AMHIK.
ST-Traveler
Site Supporter
Better call Igofar.....
larryg
Site Supporter
Larryg,
THANKS for the fact-checking!!
Well shucks. I screwed that up two ways. First, the title clearly says 1300 where I had 1100. Then I got the link wrong. It should have been: https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brak...st-1100-clutch-line-kit-st-1100-s-hn0150.html
And, you are correct, they don't show anything for the 1300. Seems like they would.
Spiegler does make custom lines, in fact, they make up every order after it is placed. Way too many variables to have them in inventory, all the colors, and lengths for custom handlebars, etc.
This is the link, I hope, to the Spiegler "Custom brake lines, Build your own": https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/custom-brake-lines.html
Sorry for the confusion.
THANKS for the fact-checking!!
Well shucks. I screwed that up two ways. First, the title clearly says 1300 where I had 1100. Then I got the link wrong. It should have been: https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brak...st-1100-clutch-line-kit-st-1100-s-hn0150.html
And, you are correct, they don't show anything for the 1300. Seems like they would.
Spiegler does make custom lines, in fact, they make up every order after it is placed. Way too many variables to have them in inventory, all the colors, and lengths for custom handlebars, etc.
This is the link, I hope, to the Spiegler "Custom brake lines, Build your own": https://spieglerusa.com/brakes/brake-lines-accessories-tools/custom-brake-lines.html
Sorry for the confusion.
OP
OP
Well looks like the bike is fixed I had the clutch line replaced as well as the slave cylinder I pick it up next Tuesday. Mechanic rode it around for about 45 minutes running some errands, the clutch never lost resistance he indicated so I shall never really know the problem was in the line or the slave cylinder. So basically I'm good from the clutch master all the way to the slave. Not bad 4 hours labor, I can live with that.
I have been reading the posts here as I have a 07 ST1300 with 38,000 miles on the clock and have started getting a clunk when engaging 1st or 2nd gear. When I pull the clutch level in and put tension on the gear change I can hear the gears grinding so obviously the clutch isn't fully disengaging.
With the engine off, the bike in 1st gear and clutch pulled in I can move the bike so the clutch must be disengaging to some extent.
I have just rebuilt the master cylinder and there seems to be decent resistance when I pull the lever compared what was present before the rebuild. I'm now thinking it could be the slave cylinder so have ordered a replacement complete with spring gasket and 3 crush washers. I read the forums with interest and have watched various YouTube videos on how this can be done with the engine still in place and have acquired the tools needed. Working within the space available seems daunting but with a degree of patience and determination seems do-able.
I'm assuming if this doesn't sort the problem that will only leave the hydraulic line swelling being the cause and reading the postings within this thread i'm really hoping replacing the slave cylinder fixes the problem.
Should it turn out I need to replace the hydraulic line, am I right in understanding that I should be able to locate a company here in the UK who could make a line with a banjo each end that will fit the master cylinder at one end and a banjo that will fit the slave cylinder at the other end and providing the line is the right length I could run along the clutch lever side of the bike behind the body work, obviously avoiding the exhaust?
If this can be done would you know the length of line required. I really don't fancy the idea of having to part dismantle the bike to replace the line with an original part if it can be done using a re-enforced flexible line using a different route.
Thanks in advance.
Bob.
With the engine off, the bike in 1st gear and clutch pulled in I can move the bike so the clutch must be disengaging to some extent.
I have just rebuilt the master cylinder and there seems to be decent resistance when I pull the lever compared what was present before the rebuild. I'm now thinking it could be the slave cylinder so have ordered a replacement complete with spring gasket and 3 crush washers. I read the forums with interest and have watched various YouTube videos on how this can be done with the engine still in place and have acquired the tools needed. Working within the space available seems daunting but with a degree of patience and determination seems do-able.
I'm assuming if this doesn't sort the problem that will only leave the hydraulic line swelling being the cause and reading the postings within this thread i'm really hoping replacing the slave cylinder fixes the problem.
Should it turn out I need to replace the hydraulic line, am I right in understanding that I should be able to locate a company here in the UK who could make a line with a banjo each end that will fit the master cylinder at one end and a banjo that will fit the slave cylinder at the other end and providing the line is the right length I could run along the clutch lever side of the bike behind the body work, obviously avoiding the exhaust?
If this can be done would you know the length of line required. I really don't fancy the idea of having to part dismantle the bike to replace the line with an original part if it can be done using a re-enforced flexible line using a different route.
Thanks in advance.
Bob.
I don't think you need to worry about the clutch line, it does not see the pressure that the brake lines endure. I just replaced the slave cylinder on my 1300 and it was shite. I had no problems with the clutch, but after 14 years it was time. The hardest part of replacing the cylinder was removing the old gasket and fiddling with the crush washers upon reinstallation.
did you get a lngth for yyour line in the end?
Here is a photo of the oem ass'y. I have never ordered a custom hose before. But if I did,,, I would likely go 54" center to center of the banjo's. There are some zig zags that you won't have to worry about. And there is room to absorb some extra hose in various places. The stock length is adequate for Heli gen 3 risers. But it's your call,, of course,, hope this helps,,, CAt'
Hi, many thanks for your help it does indeed. it is a long beastie,
Hell in the UK have just been in touch and passed on some information. There is a previous post on the forum regarding having a hose made by them but no dimension on the follow up so I will wait and see what they say.
Thanks for your help
Hell in the UK have just been in touch and passed on some information. There is a previous post on the forum regarding having a hose made by them but no dimension on the follow up so I will wait and see what they say.
Thanks for your help
With the clutch slave, its not the miles but the time in service. As @SupraSabre says, the brake fluid in the clutch systems doesn't circulate much (very short stroke cylinders). Also, because of the design of the hydraulic system with the slave way down at the end of it past the bleeder, there is a significant amount of "dead" fluid in the slave cylinder that just sits there and degrades and rots the seals down there.
On one point, I do differ with @Supra - having looked at the system in quite some detail, I doubt that even repeated bleeding operations would clear out the dead fluid in the slave.
Therefore, at the cost of another $75-100, I'd certainly replace the slave cylinder if I was that far into the bike. If the old one comes out looking nice (and it likely will given Murphy's Law etc.) then I'd suggest that you simply just drain it of all old fluid, put it in a sealed baggie and keep it as a spare - or donate it to some other Forum member who needs one.
The thing is I replaced the slave on my 2007 ST1300 about six years ago (ARTICLE - ST1300 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement) when the bike had been on the road for nine seasons. Now, in 2022, the newest 2014 ST1300 is about 8 years old and the bulk of the marque are now well over 12 years old - so I'd bet that virtually every one on the Forum is going to need a slave soon.
Last edited:
Not really sure what this has to do with the length of the line... think there is an answer in there for a question that I did not ask but thanks
Sorry - I was just responding to your comment about replacing the slave cylinder. I didn't mean to offend.
Pete
not offended my friend no clutch issues just want to change the hose.
no question re slave. by me
Shaun from Hel has already been in touch and awaiting a reply. If they have not supplied a hose already then they will have the required information to complete the task.
I have used Hel on several other bikes with no issues so again no not offended just surprised there was an answer to a question that wasn't asked
Cat2 reply was excellent
Hi all,
After having already overhauled the clutch master cylinder, the clutch slave cylinder I ordered arrived on Friday so on Sunday a managed to remove the old cylinder and install the new one. It took me me around 8 hours with the bike on the side stand including doing an oil and filter change in case any clutch fluid had got into the engine oil and to rule out existing oil causing the clutch plates to bind.
Much to my disappointment when I started the bike and pulled in the clutch the gears were still grinding. I'm confident as I can be there is no air in the system as I have pulled a pint of fluid through the lines using a vacuum bleeder and standard bleeding procedure with both methods resulting in bubble free fluid coming out. The clutch lever feels firm but when the engine is cold and I try engaging 1st or 2nd I can hear the gear grinding so did not try actually putting it into gear. When the engine gets up to working temperature I can get all gears with a slight clunk when engaging 1st and 2nd so suspect that as the oil warms up it manages to cause some slippage between the cutch plates which are not fully disengaging.
My question is, is my next move to rule out swelling in the two rubber pipes by replacing the whole line using a made up re-enforced flexible line as mentioned earlier in this thread?
My second question is if a can get a flexible line made up to route along side the frame will I get away with removing the fuel tank and removing the upper flexible part of the existing line of the line to make room for the new line which I would then run down the side of the frame behind the fairing?
My third question is would I need to dismantle the back of the bike as seen in STumped's daunting photos to route the lower end of the line to connect it to the slave cylinder.
I have since read that I could have warped plates or an array of other causes that involve taking the clutch apart. At the moment I am ruling them out (maybe wrongly) on the theory at 14 years old with the 38k on the clock and never having been abused during the 13 1/2 years I have owned it the latter would be less likely and be more likely to be due to rubbers stuff failing due to age.
Thanks I advance for any wisdom shared.
Bob.
No offence will be taken at any suggestions. At 65 yrs old I've developed thick skin .
I changed out my oem clutch line over this past winter,,, replacing it with another used oem line ass'y. At the same time,,, I was doing a csc, speed sensor,, and shifter ass'y. But Ieft the oil filter in place throughout. Working with the bike vertical on my lift was a back saver. Getting the old line out,, and new line in was not too bad,,, and I used a fish line, made of 16g electrical wire. Its hard to hang a time on it,, because all of the other replacements going on. But it is certainly cramped in there. Bleeding was a bear,,, and required all of the tricks and methods I know. It's a simple circuit,,, and should not be as hard as it was for me. But I eventually got it. Since you are hearing grinding gears,,, even in neutral,,, I wonder how well your shifter is moving. Changing my shifter ass'y to a newer one,,, has made a big improvement in shift smoothness. Check to make sure yours is not dragging ?? CAt'
oh,, btw,,, no I did not disassemble anything for access,,, other than the side cowls were off.
oh,, btw,,, no I did not disassemble anything for access,,, other than the side cowls were off.
Last edited:
I perhaps didn’t explain the gear grinding clearly. When in neutral there is no grinding noise from the gears. It is only when trying to engage 1st and 2nd from neutral that the grinding noise occurs due the clutch not fully disengaging. This occurs when the bike is cold.
Once the bike warms up and 1st or 2nd is selected from neutral the grinding becomes a dull clunk as it goes into gear suggesting the slippage between the clutch operation has improved somewhat allowing 1st and 2nd to be engaged more easily. Selecting gears seem fine and only hampered by the clutch not disengaging fully when cold. I will pull the cowls off the weekend and see how doable replacing the clutch line is for me. I don’t have a bike lifter and replaced the CSC out in the garden laid on my side on a yoga mat which wasn’t too bad…apart from the bruise I now have on my left hip. A small price to pay if I can get this problem sorted.
Bob.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
As a thought, I am curious as to what engine oil you have in the engine. Engine oil that is a much higher viscosity than recommended can cause this when it is cold. The rotating parts will drag heavy oil along with them, which in turn drags the adjacent parts that aren't supposed to be rotating along for the ride. The effect of this lessens as the oil warms up and it becomes less viscous and creates less drag. This effect has enough force that, even with cold engine oil of the correct viscosity, the rear wheel will rotate even though the transmission is in neutral. The heavier the oil, the greater the effect.
Worn, or incorrectly assembled, bushings and push rods in the clutch master cylinder handle mechanism have caused all kinds of weird symptoms as well. Might be worth it to have a look.