Article [13] ST1300 - Maintenance - Fitting Wheel Bearings - What the manuals don't tell.

[Andrew Shadow]

left side

Where I wiped off the crud, semi dirty/greasy..

In all of your photos of the left side there also seems to be damage to the wheel hub that houses the bearing. It was rubbing against something at some point based on the photos.

 

[jfheath]

That is good progress. Seals are toast.
Bearings - at 25000, they are probably ok. One test you did not mention is how smooth they feel when you jam your finger in the hole and rotate it back and forth.
I would probably replace them - but I have the tools and some experience.

DO NOT hold the wheel one finger in each bearing and spin the wheel. It may not turn out very well ! All you are feeling for is smoothness.

The spacer between the bearings - you will be able to feel it and it ought to be jammed tight, but it may drop down slightly and scrape against the bearing as you feel how smoothly the bearing turns. Check that that spacer is there - it is a long alloy tube that is a loose fit for the axle to slide through. I think I can see the end of it on the photo of the rhs with the seal removed. Use the axle from the other side to keep the spacer in place. If it is very slack, then the bearings are not properly seated. ask about that before trying to fix it .

That scoring of the hub on the left - that is odd. The only thing that I can think of is that the left hand spacer was not fitted at some point. The wheel would slide easily on the axle and that scored hub would collide with the bottom of the inside fork leg, above the axle hole. Take a look there to see if there is any damage/score marks.

 

[Ndfrc]

Both bearing surfaces are glass smooth, if thats what you mean, however they turn slow and stiff, the outer one turns more stiff, this is the one against the backwards spacer.. but they do turn.
How freely or tightly should they turn? I wish I had a new one to compare.

The spacer is there and it’s not loose at all, but I didn’t go out of my way to loosen it.

As for the hub, I find no corresponding mark on the forks. To me it looks like hub damage from mishandling the wheel, that hub edge is the highest point on that side of the wheel, one or 2 slightly high setdowns on a garage floor would easily do that, besides it should be just cosmetic.

 

[Sadlsor]

It's nice when we find some "problems" go back to the most basic issues.
There's some doggone smart ST folks 'round here!
I submit that your vague handling issues at um, ... elevated speeds will be subdued with replacement bearing (as needed), and just having the front wheel mounted properly.
Mechanics may be good or not so good, but there are common ST techniques that MUST be correct.
Not all "good" mechanics know this fine example of a motorcycle, as we have seen time after time.
The front wheel axle, pinch bolts and spacers must be done right, and the same for bleeding these brakes.
Glad you're here to learn the RIGHT way.
And thanks to @jfheath and @Andrew Shadow for jumping in with the correct observations.

 

[jfheath]

Both bearing surfaces are glass smooth, if thats what you mean, however they turn slow and stiff, the outer one turns more stiff, this is the one against the backwards spacer.. but they do turn.
How freely or tightly should they turn? I wish I had a new one to compare.

The spacer is there and it’s not loose at all, but I didn’t go out of my way to loosen it.

Spacers should be tight up against the inner face of the bearing, so that is ok

However one bearing should not be stiffer than the other - but that is difficult to tell since the spacer and both inner races will likely turn together.m

I might have a spare bearing - I'll dig it out if I can (I haven't seen it for a while) and try to give you an idea of how easily they move. They are not loose, but they should move round smoothly with gentle finger pressure.

 

[SMSW]

A new bearing, right out of the box and wrapper, will feel silky smooth with some resistance from the grease. With some use, the bearing will show less resistance from the grease, but it will still feel smooth. When installed in your wheel properly, there will be some (very little) side pressure on the inner races so the tendency will be for turning one to turn the spacer and the other bearing. You are looking for that smoothness while you turn either or both bearings. An old bearing might feel smooth, but make some noise because it is dry, or it might feel notchy as the round bearings roll over worn spots on the outer (or inner) race.

This kind of thing is probably as hard to communicate via the written word as it is to describe the taste of, say, chocolate to someone who has never tasted it. It would be easier to learn if you grabbed a new bearing or two and played with it for a while.

 

[Ndfrc]

Totally agree, and what you said helps.. they do roll smoothly, but I feel they should be more free.. it takes quite abit twisting with 2 fingers to get it to move and your not going to get grip to turn it a full circle.

There’s a bike shop close by, been tempted to use them for other things but ended up doing myself or changed directions, I’ll take my wheel to them in the am and they should be able to check them out in seconds right?
Next question then is seeing how I am not counting on them to install my wheel, is this bearing replacement work pretty standard stuff that a good bike shop should have no issue or does this procedure have its own secrets you have to know?
As for replacement bearings.. I assume oem? If not is there a go to?
Thanks!!

 

[Al st1100]

Totally agree, and what you said helps.. they do roll smoothly, but I feel they should be more free.. it takes quite abit twisting with 2 fingers to get it to move and your not going to get grip to turn it a full circle.

There’s a bike shop close by, been tempted to use them for other things but ended up doing myself or changed directions, I’ll take my wheel to them in the am and they should be able to check them out in seconds right?
Next question then is seeing how I am not counting on them to install my wheel, is this bearing replacement work pretty standard stuff that a good bike shop should have no issue or does this procedure have its own secrets you have to know?
As for replacement bearings.. I assume oem? If not is there a go to?
Thanks!!

Standard stuff is depending on how mechanically inclined you are and what tools are at your disposal. You can't judge a bearing alone by how free you think it should spin. Failed bearing can spin very freely. IMO your bearings by your description sound perfect.

 

[SMSW]

Totally agree, and what you said helps.. they do roll smoothly, but I feel they should be more free.. it takes quite abit twisting with 2 fingers to get it to move and your not going to get grip to turn it a full circle.

There’s a bike shop close by, been tempted to use them for other things but ended up doing myself or changed directions, I’ll take my wheel to them in the am and they should be able to check them out in seconds right?
is this bearing replacement work pretty standard stuff that a good bike shop should have no issue

Yes, a good mechanic should be able to suss out the condition of the bearings in seconds. And if you are elbow to elbow w/ him while he does it, you should be able to figure out just as quickly if he knows what he is doing. Ask what he is looking for and ask him to show you - teach you.

Yes, it is pretty standard stuff that anyone can do. You can do it yourself...just go slowly, read the book and tap the second one in, feeling for the bearings just holding the spacer in place. In this case the big problem is using a mechanic who does not know the procedure (which side goes in first) or does not care.

does this procedure have its own secrets you have to know?
As for replacement bearings.. I assume oem? If not is there a go to?
Thanks!!

The secrets are going slowly and learning by doing. Yes, we all make mistakes and if you have to replace damaged parts it is part of learning. If you bang in the second bearing too tight and are side loading the inner races they might fail in a few thousand miles. Big deal, this is not an expensive or high labor job.

If you go OEM there is little to no guesswork. You can also buy bearings by number (on the side of the bearing) from many sources. Go with name brands and check prices. Here are the big guys (also called Tier 1 manufacturers) by country. The link was my source for this (no secrets). There are other brands out there, but I like the big guys. YMMV

Sweden: SKF
Germany: FAG, INA of Schaffer Group - Barden
Japan: NSK, NTN, THK, IKO, Nachi, Koyo, NMB
USA: Timken, RBC, Torrington

https://clunt-bearing.com/info/top-10-famous-bearing-brands-in-the-world-29840590.html

 

[jfheath]

Yes, there are secrets. Well documented, but many make assumptions and just hammer them in. If you do that, you will destroy both bearings. If you don’t insert them in the correct order, then the wheel will be slightly off centre when it is fitted.

I only ever buy OEM bearings. They have the correct load rating, speed rating and amount of play. Non of this is indicated by the 6205UU code, which merely indicates the type and inside diameter and the fact that they are fitted with oil seals both sides. The more I tried to understand the coding, the more I realised that I didn't know enough about it - so I err on the 'buy OEM' side. I think that Honda use Koyo -but only because I have seeen the name on some of the fiches for some of the bearings.

Check the videos of me removing and inserting bearings for an ST1300 front wheel.

For the front wheel, the right hand bearing must be inserted first.
Then the spacer
Then the left hand bearing driven in until the centre race meets the spacer. No further.

Also check out the comments in the thread that contains the video (link in post #1 of this thread). Scroll down to Post #19 - 24 May 2024. Some official tools and some makeshift tools created from old bearing shells and a grindstone.

 

[mello dude]

Ran into a weird one, never have seen it in 40 years + of wrenching....on a new front bearing set install, used wheel, the bearings are a slip fit (outer race) as opposed to a press fit..I don't like....

Thoughts?

 

[SMSW]

Assuming you have the correct bearing, you could use loctite to glue the bearing in place. When you replace it, a good hot air gun will break down the adhesive. If the bearing is a rattle fit (and not just a smooth slip fit), I'd either try another bearing or not use that wheel.

 

[mello dude]

Assuming you have the correct bearing, you could use loctite to glue the bearing in place. When you replace it, a good hot air gun will break down the adhesive. If the bearing is a rattle fit (and not just a smooth slip fit), I'd either try another bearing or not use that wheel.

Yeah the fit is just enough to slip, I can rotate the outer race with my finger..bearings are OEM...
...... I was debating using a red loctiite on it, but it does make assembly a bit dicey... Things that make you go....hmmmm

thxz

 

[Ndfrc]

I managed to make it to that shop this morning, the owner was outside we chatted and 2 minutes later he had showed me firsthand what he looks for in wheel bearings, which I learned and he said those were just fine. So I am good with that, and also with all the help on here, thanks guys! I will do this deed myself when it come time.

The front wheel is being sorted, will move onto the back, next.

So this is funny, I was sitting there contemplating..
And I started laughing because..
this is a perfect example of an ocd person that has inadvertently squeezed the brake 1 time before in the past and blew pistons all over the place
And the steps that guy takes..

Note the impossible brake lever access… look closely at the brake pedal.. guard. No wait it gets better.. look at the calipers.. those are chopsticks preventing piston movement!! Which by the way work perfect, there wood so, sticks in there easy and no weight so they stay there, unlike a screwdriver and make all the other efforts.. redundant.

 

[jfheath]

I have some short lengths of mahogany that I slip into the calipers and gently close the pistons onto them to keep them in place.

Glad that you are reassured about the front bearings.

Rear bearings. One large double race bearing, one ‘normal’ single race bearing, and there are two in the part that supports the final drive. You have to remove the plate - that is one ginormous circlip - to get at them. Note that you have to remove the rear caliper bracket to get the rear wheel out. Do not be tempted to remove the slider pin on the caliper. You have to remove the large stopper bolt which passes through the swing arm, and to get at that, you have to swing the left exhaust out of the way.

To swing the exhaust, you need to remove the obvious bolt. There is a small nut and bolt further forward - get down on hands and knees, you will see it. Slacken the clamp that joins the silencer to the main exhaust. If that clamp breaks - they do in the Uk - they rust away, don’t replace them with original. Stainless steel hose clamps work better. support the pipe forward of the silencer and move the silencer out and down - so that it twists inside the part that had the clamp round it. Put a rag on the ground and lower the silencer until it touches so that the weight is not taken by that joint with the other half of the exhaust.

With the exhaust out of the way, the stopper bolt removed and the axle part withdrawn - the caliper bracket can be lifted up. Slide the caliper off its bracket. The caliper itself can be manoeuvred so that it rests on the swing arm. There is then enough space to pull the wheel out horizontally.

Did I say that you need to remove the rear fender with the number plate on it? Best to do that first. I always forget, like I have just demonstrated. 4 Allen screws like the ones that hold the side panels - shoulder bolts. Two at the rear, one in each side under the mudguard.

Tip. Find a bit of wood that just slides under the rear wheel between the tyre and the ground, lay it across the width of the bike. So that the tyre is barely touching it. Then pull the wheel out to the side, and roll it backwards out of the swing arm.

That bit of wood doesn’t help at all when you take the wheel off, but to put the wheel back on, it is one heck of a weight to lift from the position you have to be in. I used to use my foot - that works too and you can raise or lower using your toes - but it is an awkward position. Having a piece of wood to help support the wheel at about the right height, really does help. Even better if you remember to put a plastic bag under it so that it slides with the wheel as you push it onto the splines. You might need to rotate the wheel slightly to align the ridges and troughs of the spline.

I feel stupid. I’ve done this so many times before and I cannot remember. But I think you need to have the front wheel in the bike to be able to remove the rear wheel. With the front wheel in place there is enough weight to keep the rear wheel off the ground - so that jack need to be lowered so that the weight is entirely on the front wheel. Once the rear wheel is out, the centre stand and the jack take the weight of the bike and both wheels can be out of the bike at the same time.

 

[leondante]

Meh, now I have to check my newly installed bearings. Glad I didn't ride the bike yet.

Thank you very much for sharing this.

 

[jfheath]

Which bit - the right bearing first ?

If you cannot remember, then check the clearance where the brake disc fits through the caliper bracket, and the axle flush at left hand side and wheel installed correctly. If all that is ok, you should be fine.

I'm not sure if the out of alignment issue is a big problem. But it cant help. @Ndfrc's experience at speed hints that it is - but he had other issues too - like the wheel sliding on the axle ! The bigger issue is that clearance and then 'fixing the symptom' by splaying the forks out.

 

[Tdinova]

Just reading all the comments which is good. My 07 has 165xxx km on all original bearing. The rear will be done when the tire is worn out ~5k. I have all 3 bearings but waitng for the BIG one, 91052-KZ4-J21 has only 1 sided seal other side is open. The service manual doesn't state what type grease to pack into the bearing..
I done some googling and there are multiple types.

What type grease should I pack it with?

 

[SMSW]

DO NOT hold the wheel one finger in each bearing and spin the wheel. It may not turn out very well ! All you are feeling for is smoothness.

That would take some very long fingers or a third hand....well, maybe a well educated foot. Come on, John, we need to leave some things for folks to figure out for themselves.

 

[jfheath]

Just reading all the comments which is good. My 07 has 165xxx km on all original bearing. The rear will be done when the tire is worn out ~5k. I have all 3 bearings but waitng for the BIG one, 91052-KZ4-J21 has only 1 sided seal other side is open. The service manual doesn't state what type grease to pack into the bearing..
I done some googling and there are multiple types.

What type grease should I pack it with?

The OEM bearings with seals normally have grease installed. The small flange bearings don’t - from your photo.

I use Castrol LM grease, but it is no longer available. Castrol High Temperature or High Melting Point Grease, or LMX are claimed by Castrol as suitable for wheel bearings. Typically these have a lithium base and are described as suitable for wheel bearings. I go into a motor vehicle shop, head for the known names and read the description. A tub lasts a long time, so I don’t do it very often. Lithium based general purpose grease is often described as suitable for wheel bearings.

Don’t pack them absolutely tight. The grease has to have a bit of room to move around.

But I really know nothing about it. I’m just describing what I have used and why.