U-Joint Pre-Failure Indicator

Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,537
Age
77
Location
Kingman, Arizona
Bike
2000 ST1100 ABS TCS
STOC #
004
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

CV joints are way more sophisticated than two u-joints back-toback. Bigger, too, and space is a consideration in the environment a motorcyle can provide.
 

MileHigh

Juvenile delinquent
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
728
Location
Littleton, Colorado
Bike
2006 ST
STOC #
6674
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners



I always referred to these as CV or double cardan joints.







These were referred to as Rzeppa joints. Named after the Ford engineer who invented them.
 
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,537
Age
77
Location
Kingman, Arizona
Bike
2000 ST1100 ABS TCS
STOC #
004
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners



I always referred to these as CV or double cardan joints.







These were referred to as Rzeppa joints. Named after the Ford engineer who invented them.
The second view is what was referred to as CV joints in my VWs. Never seen the a physical representation of the first view. My meager engineering knowledge probably (again) sticks a foot in my mouth. :D
 

Dinkie Diesel

------------Jeff------------
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
3,052
Location
Defiance, Missouri
Bike
2013 GL1800
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

I remember Mom & Dad's Cadillacs having the double cardan joints. Suppose to help with the vibration caused by the single joint as it speeds up and slows down twice during each revolution. They were refered to in those days as a constant velocity joint however it may have been a misnomer.
 

bdalameda

PaleoCyclist
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Messages
2,440
Age
67
Location
Salinas, California
Bike
Africa Twin
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

The Rzeppa joint is most often referred to as a CV joint. I have heard of the double u-joint or cardigan joint referred to as a CV joint but most people think of the Rzeppa joint as a CV joint and most manufacturers also refer to it as a CV joint at least in the US. As always there are differences depending on where you live or how mechanics are taught about things. I have had literally hundreds of driveshafts rebuilt and balanced here locally, many with the double u-joint and I have never heard them called a CV joint although I have seen the term used for the double u-joint in manuals etc.
 

Firstpeke

NT1100D
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
1,689
Location
UK
Bike
Honda NT1100
STOC #
7764
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

The shaft on the ST and the NT700 is referred to as a Cardan type. This to me would clearly point to what we know is fitted as per the upper picture above.

I have only ever know the second picture to be a CV joint as used in front wheel drive shaft hubs.

CV's allow much greater range of movement during rotation.
 

MileHigh

Juvenile delinquent
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
728
Location
Littleton, Colorado
Bike
2006 ST
STOC #
6674
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners



At the dealership, the trade name for these in the shop was "money maker" :D

Just about every 4WD truck that rolled off a Detroit assembly line had them on the transfer case to the front diff. They usually crapped out around 30-40K miles since they started to use sealed U-joints (no zerks) around the early 70's.

Also, the clips (on the caps) where eliminated in the 70's and the joint caps where held in place by injecting molten nylon into the grooves and letting it harden.

To remove the joints, so you could rebuild the CV joint, a torch was used to melt the nylon. Lots of flames, smoke and pounding with a BFH. ;) Grease & melting nylon make a pretty big, stinky fire.

The new U-joints that went in had zerks in them and, clips where installed in the grooves instead of nylon to hold the new u-joints in.

Paid 4.5 hours to rebuild a front shaft. I could knock one out in about 1.5 hours.....still got paid 4.5 hours.

Caddy shop guys where getting 6.2 hours. Cadillac used them because it gave a much smoother drive. The folks that plunked down that kind of money for a Caddy didn't want it to feel like a Caprice running down the road.

Too bad Honda didn't put a zerk in the U-joint. A single shot (pump) of grease every 50-60K miles would make that joint last forever.
 
OP
OP
Mellow

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,899
Age
60
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

I pulled the rear gear off today.

Without the drive shaft attached it turns with no strange resistance.

I turned the shaft and you can feel it's the u-joint. Pulled out the shaft and it appears to be fine with no damage.

I don't have a 19mm hex tool to loosen the swingarm bolts and I also need to make something for the locking nut so I'll do that tomorrow.
 

dannyk

SISU an inner spirit
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
722
Age
76
Location
UP of Michigan, Winter Haven, Florida
Bike
05 ST1300
STOC #
5207
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Too bad Honda didn't put a zerk in the U-joint. A single shot (pump) of grease every 50-60K miles would make that joint last forever.
I remember my 81 Interstate having a grease fitting on the shaft housing right where the u joint was, it wasn't there on the 84 aspencade.
 

acedantinne

Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
921
Location
Easton,Pa.
Bike
04-st1300, 15-1200RT
STOC #
#7224
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

I pulled the rear gear off today.

Without the drive shaft attached it turns with no strange resistance.

I turned the shaft and you can feel it's the u-joint. Pulled out the shaft and it appears to be fine with no damage.

I don't have a 19mm hex tool to loosen the swingarm bolts and I also need to make something for the locking nut so I'll do that tomorrow.
Harbor Freight #96224 1/2 drive 29.00
locking nut tool made my own 1/2 socket(forgot what size will check tomorrow) welded on for 1/2 drive.
 
OP
OP
Mellow

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,899
Age
60
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Harbor Freight #96224 1/2 drive 29.00
locking nut tool made my own 1/2 socket(forgot what size will check tomorrow) welded on for 1/2 drive.
Actually, that's for and 8 pc impact. I think I need two so I may hit Sears.

On second thought, I guess I only need one.. for some reason I was thinking I had to hold one to loosen the other.. duh.
 
OP
OP
Mellow

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,899
Age
60
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Apparently, a 19mm hex bit is a hard item to get. Gotta order one. Repair put off for a few more days.
 

Tankereng

Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
2,363
Age
49
Location
Colorado Springs
Bike
2018 Goldwing
STOC #
7405
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Apparently, a 19mm hex bit is a hard item to get. Gotta order one. Repair put off for a few more days.
Ride on down to San Antonio...I've got one....oh wait....:crackup Good luck getting one soon....at least it's the cool season....:D
 

Dinkie Diesel

------------Jeff------------
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
3,052
Location
Defiance, Missouri
Bike
2013 GL1800
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Joe, do you consider Tank a friend? With friends like that who needs enemies? He is just plain rotten! I'm taking notes from him. :D

What are you going to make a spanner socket out of?
 

Two Brothers

Walking, Talking, and Smiling!
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
840
Location
Lawrenceville Ga
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Hey Joe if you know of a parts store that carrys SK tools. They carry a 19mm. I think this is what we use.
 
OP
OP
Mellow

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,899
Age
60
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Well, I ran out there and just decided to put a towel in the hex opening and use my 17mm bit. That worked as those bolts are only torqued at 40 ft lbs to set the swingarm bearings and then back off to 30 ft lbs.

I used a dremel to make a lock nut took just like Tom mentioned in his write up.

Funny thing... from the factory they routed the left O2 sensor incorrectly. They must have routed it then bolted some hard lines in place as there was no way to unplug the electrical end and snake it back to the rear. I tried taking the O2 sensors off themselves but I couldn't budge them at all.

So, I just marked and cut the O2 wires and I'll solder them back when I'm ready and snake them the right way.

So.. I was able to pull the swingarm out... VERY interesting stuff... Below are pictures of a new u-jont Bottom and used one Top.

1/2 of the u-joint was just about frozen.

So, it appears we can conclude that if you have a hollow thumping paddle wheel sound coming from your rear ST1300 wheel when you spin it on the center stand. It's highly possible your u-joint is having issues.

No, gotta figure out how to get that 17mm hex bit and towel out of that bolt :rofl1:
 

Attachments

Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,144
Location
finger lakes ny
Bike
1999 ST1100
STOC #
7959
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Good work Joe. I don't have a 1300 but am paying attention anyway.....
 

FJRHank

"Scooter Pimp"
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
690
Location
Tucson, Az
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Joe I think I have a 19mm hex bit. Pretty sure that's what I had to get for the feej front tire. I can run over tomorrow if you need it.
 
OP
OP
Mellow

Mellow

Joe
Admin
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
18,899
Age
60
Bike
'21 BMW R1250RT
2024 Miles
000540
Re: Issue after replacing cush drive dampeners

Joe I think I have a 19mm hex bit. Pretty sure that's what I had to get for the feej front tire. I can run over tomorrow if you need it.
Hey, that would be cool... free tire changes for life!... wait, you already have those.. okay, I'll think of something.

I'll start working on it around 10 but I still have some parts cleaning to do so anytime is fine. Thanks!
 
Top Bottom