Gonna try to install one of my 2x new SMC units...

The Dark Shadow

The Dark Shadow

Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
262
Age
53
Location
Nova Scotia
Hello All

On my ride yesterday, I noticed my back brake, and possible front, dragging somewhat. It settled down partway through the ride. How did I notice...?? Back brake rotor and front left were warm, with little brake usage. Also, fuel efficiency dropped sharply and when I clutched-in and glided, the bike slowed down quickly.

So, at any rate, it is time to install a new SMC, and finally do my first full brake fluid replacement and air-bleed.

For those who have seen some of my previous posts, I have terrible anxiety and stress when I do something the first time if I haven't observed someone doing it once before me. If I've seen it once, I have all the confidence in the world. Also, I do NOT have a good spot to do bike maintenance. My driveway is sloped, and I do not feel it is a good idea to do it on the road in front of my house. I do NOT have another location. I'll likely try my sloped driveway (after all, it is the only place where I can put the bike on its centre stand.. I've tried 50 times on flat pavement, and cannot for the life of me - all 167.5 pounds of me, put this frikkin bike on its centre stand.)

Anyhow, cutting to the chase...

Changing SMC... I have a PDF manual (if someone could link me a nicer PDF manual that would be great, mine is not all the best scanned quality, but it is adequate).

Here's some questions:

- How much fluid will I need to buy...?
- Will I need to buy any extra parts (gaskets, crush washers, etc) or just the SMC itself (of which I have 2 brand new ones)...?
- When I detach the two hydraulic lines (one in, one out) of the SMC, how much will it leak/drip/flow...?? And how careful must I be at wiping this drippage from bike parts (I've heard that brake fluid is terribly caustic, and I don't want to leave traces that will cause damage)...?
- What other tips or advice do you gurus have for preparing, executing, and tidying up after this operation...??

Thanks in advance for any help you can give...

I'm in a better psycho-spiritual state now than last year (there was a tonne of **** going on in my life, and I was still in the fall-out from tonnes of **** that had happened previously). But still, things are tough... Cash flow is net zero, or even minus, and I still have some family issues... And I still have my anxiety and psycho-paralysis when doing new-to-me tasks...

So, if you guys can help "hold my hand" through this operation and be patient with me, I would be very grateful and appreciative.

Many thanks! Rubber side down, and God Bless!
 
Just did this during my own 'first time full brake caliper disassembly' session; take your time and you'll be fine! A normal container of brake fluid will work, have plenty of clean rags and maybe even a small container to catch the fluid vs having to wipe it all up, some new banjo bolt crush washers, read up on getting all the air out, and probably talk to @Igofar or @aniwack for more of the nuanced details. ***edited*** and @jfheath, obviously!

What technique are you using to put the bike up on the center stand? It's probably technique related and not ability related that you're having difficulty.
 
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Get some sandwich bags and cable tie them to the loose ends of the hoses.
Clean up drips immediately. Have a dry rag and a wet with a little detergent.

You might need to detach all 4 banjo bolts so that you can check out the slider pins and make sure that it moves freely.
That is 8 crush washers. Someone else may have a technique of taking the caliper off the bracket without unbolting the caliper banjos. I have never tried !


Its not the amount of fluid you lose, its the amount you need to in order to get rid of the air once it is all assembled

I usually buy 2 litres of fluid. I usually manage with less than 1 litre.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Replacing the Secondary Master Cylinder (SMC) | ST1300 Articles

The usual format from me - Description, some useful photos and a few tips and tricks to help you to avoid the normal 'Doh!' moments - Like emptying all of the fluid out before realising that you wanted tomove the pistons out as far as possible; Like reftting everything before realising that you...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com

It isn't a difficult job. Its a steady, systematic job.
 
Gus1300 said:
Just did this during my own 'first time full brake caliper disassembly' session; take your time and you'll be fine! A normal container of brake fluid will work, have plenty of clean rags and maybe even a small container to catch the fluid vs having to wipe it all up, some new banjo bolt crush washers, read up on getting all the air out, and probably talk to @Igofar or @aniwack for more of the nuanced details. ***edited*** and @jfheath, obviously!

What technique are you using to put the bike up on the center stand? It's probably technique related and not ability related that you're having difficulty.
Click to expand...
Thank you. What crush washers should I order from my local Honda stealer...?

Also, I'm pretty good with learning techniques... Very analytical... Top level karate for years... Studied guitar then oboe... But seriously, the bike only goes a third of the way up onto the stand. I can't imagine people who put it on centre at gas stations (I've seen photos).

jfheath said:
Get some sandwich bags and cable tie them to the loose ends of the hoses.
Clean up drips immediately. Have a dry rag and a wet with a little detergent.

You might need to detach all 4 banjo bolts so that you can check out the slider pins and make sure that it moves freely.
That is 8 crush washers. Someone else may have a technique of taking the caliper off the bracket without unbolting the caliper banjos. I have never tried !


Its not the amount of fluid you lose, its the amount you need to in order to get rid of the air once it is all assembled

I usually buy 2 litres of fluid. I usually manage with less than 1 litre.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Replacing the Secondary Master Cylinder (SMC) | ST1300 Articles

The usual format from me - Description, some useful photos and a few tips and tricks to help you to avoid the normal 'Doh!' moments - Like emptying all of the fluid out before realising that you wanted tomove the pistons out as far as possible; Like reftting everything before realising that you...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com

It isn't a difficult job. Its a steady, systematic job.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I'm sure I'll feel a helluva lot better and more self empowered after doing this task.

I used about 1/10th of the blue bottle you see, but it was opened once (then capped immediately) 1.5 years ago...

Safe to use or junk?

Also, of the 5 brands at my local Canadian Tire, which should I choose and avoid...? (ie: Is there a difference between European and Asian dot 4 other than marketing?)
 

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I keep my half empty bottles and use them at the next change - not to replace, but to flush out the old, get rid of air before I use a new bottle to do the final flush and fill.
After all - its been kept in a better environment than the stuff that was in the lines - that came from the same bottle.

But I do mine yearly.

Honda crush washers are expensive. Ask the service department for a dozen of what they use.
They are supposed to be alloy - but I use copper. No corrosion due to different metals - in fact less than the alloys washers - which corrode from the outer edge.
 
Brake fluid - I usually buy a quart (litre) and have about half left over. When I do my brakes (now VStrom, used to be ST1300) I drain the reservoir with a suction bulb first, then fill it with fresh fluid. I suction 3 full reservoirs full through the brake lines for each caliper nipple. Overkill maybe, but that's what I do. I would suggest you empty the brake reservoir before you start. Opening the lines means you will introduce air, and an empty reservoir will only let the fluid in the brake lines drain while you work on the SMC. Year and a half old brake fluid? Everything I have read says after 6 months you toss a can/bottle (that time starts when you open it). I toss my bottles after I bleed the brakes since I do most all of my maintenance in the winter - once a year.

Before you start, I'd suggest perusing all the brake articles (blue band atop this page). If you read them all you will have the information as if you had watched a buddy change his SMC and lessen your anxiety.

Center stand. Put a 1x board (a board 3/4" thick - ok roughly 18.75mm thick) on the ground. Ride the bike over the board and position the rear wheel on the board (i used to use a board about 1' long - 340mm) - you are stopping the bike with the rear wheel elevated. Now try the center stand. If this does not work, use a 1" thick board - 25.4mm. Raising the rear of the bike makes putting the bike on the center stand a lot easier. Note you want the rear wheel near the front of the board since the bike rocks backward maybe 4 inches when it goes onto the stand.

While you have the front caliper(s) off, you might run a shoelace dipped in brake fluid around the pistons to clean them. No brake cleaner - just brake fluid. Don't forget to buy new shoelaces.
 
When using the center stand, be sure the ball of your foot is on the 'leverage' part of the stand, so you can place your full weight on it. I grab the left handgrip (left hand) and the side handle (right hand), and then, with the stand on the ground to center the bike, roll your hip into the side handle that your right hand is hanging on to and simultaneously put your full weight on the stand (I use my right foot). I also find that slight lifting on the side handle helps too, but it's more about leveraging the backwards movement of the bike than it is 'lifting' it onto the stand. It takes some practice, and is definitely easier the lighter the bike is. I refuel on the center stand most of the time. Let us know how it goes; there are threads here with other comments and videos about it as well!

I also only poke two holes in the brake fluid seal, one to pour from and one for air to get into. I figure if I limit the amount of exposure to air (moisture absorption) that way vs leaving the full top open when not capped, I'm hopefully limiting the opportunity for 'spoilage'. And I do like the technique of flushing with the 'old' stuff and refilling with the new for the final time, although you'd have to do a full line flush to get all new fluid replaced in the lines and calipers that way. Do it often enough, and I don't think most of us have anything to worry about.
 
Your preload adjuster is probably empty, or your tires very worn.
Feel free to post my video if you wish, as it may help others, and is much easier.
 
Igofar said:
Your preload adjuster is probably empty, or your tires very worn.
Feel free to post my video if you wish, as it may help others, and is much easier.
Click to expand...
Does the preload take dot4 fluid also...? If yes, is a litre enough for the brakes and preload...?

Thanks!
 
Obo said:
The preload takes hydraulic jack fluid. About $10+ tax at Cdn tire or $8 + tax at Princess Auto for the same thing. That 370ml bottle is more than enough to do the rear preload adjuster a couple of times.


General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca www.canadiantire.ca
Click to expand...
Thank you.

jfheath said:
I keep my half empty bottles and use them at the next change - not to replace, but to flush out the old, get rid of air before I use a new bottle to do the final flush and fill.
After all - its been kept in a better environment than the stuff that was in the lines - that came from the same bottle.

But I do mine yearly.

Honda crush washers are expensive. Ask the service department for a dozen of what they use.
They are supposed to be alloy - but I use copper. No corrosion due to different metals - in fact less than the alloys washers - which corrode from the outer edge.
Click to expand...
I'm reading your SMC replacement article...

Getting more anxiety already...

So it seems like there's more parts and materials I need to buy, and I will have to learn how to remove the fairing(s)...

I'm not an auto mechanic.

I love this bike and I waited 19 years before I could buy one. It's my holy grail of bikes, but anyone who says it's easy to maintain because it's a Honda is misleading.

I wish I was closer to some of you guys who know the bike well and I'd just pay to have this SMC changed.

I'll mark down the parts and materials that seem to be required and make a list to run it by you and the others for verification before beginning.

I truly fear if I start this operation, that I won't be able to finish it and my bike will be out of commission until someone can come to Nova Scotia to rescue me...

I'm seriously feeling defeated! :-(
 
The Dark Shadow said:
I will have to learn how to remove the fairing(s)...

I'm not an auto mechanic.

I love this bike and I waited 19 years before I could buy one. It's my holy grail of bikes, but anyone who says it's easy to maintain because it's a Honda is misleading.

I wish I was closer to some of you guys who know the bike well and I'd just pay to have this SMC changed.

I'll mark down the parts and materials that seem to be required and make a list to run it by you and the others for verification before beginning.

I truly fear if I start this operation, that I won't be able to finish it and my bike will be out of commission until someone can come to Nova Scotia to rescue me...

I'm seriously feeling defeated! :-(
Click to expand...

Plastics are not hard to remove, just takes some time. I learned by doing multiple times. I get the anxiety bit 100%.
 
What tools do you have.
A metric socket set ?
A torque wrench ?
Allen keys or allen drivers ?
Bleed tube and non-return valve ?
Does your bike still have its toolkit ?

What year bike is it ? Not the registration - the model number printed on the white label stuck to the frame under the pillion seat. Eg ST1300A-8
The instructions will differ slightly according to which year it was made - 2008 onwards are different from 2002-2007.

Do this in stages with a success planned for the end of each day. You don't want the bike to be out in the open without a fairing, so getting behind the fairing can be left until you are ready to refill the hydraulic fluid.

You can probably get away without removing the upper banjo bolt from the left caliper. This is fed from the front brake lever, but the two for the SMC need to be removed and it is easier if the lower one from the caliper is removed. Note my comment about slackening two of the bolts while the pads are still in.

Plan your first target for the day / session. You are on a slope. Which way will the bike face ? It will be better on the centre stand. IT is awkward to work on the left hand side with the bike on a sidestand. Get a piece of thick wood to roll the back wheel onto. 1" say ? You may need a chock under the downhill wheel to stop it trying to roll back. You will need to be able to rotate the front wheel. How are you going to prevent brake spillage when you undo the banjo bolt - the lines will still have some fluid in them. The caliper and SMC will be full. You need to protect your wheels and tyres.

An early job is to remove the front left brake pads. This is either a hex head or an allen key. Make sure that it is the thin metal bolt which you can see passing through the two eys of the brake pads - at the lowere end of the caliper. Once the pins are out, rolling the front wheel backwards will help to get the pads out. Check them, clean them. Check the pad pin for being smooth, clean that up.

Make sure that the front brake lever cannot be squeezed by accident. eg Tape a block of wood or something between lever and handlebars.

Then stand back and realise that you have succeed in starting the job. Plan the next part - which is bound to involve brake fluid !

Yell out for help.
 
The Dark Shadow said:
I'm seriously feeling defeated! :-(
Click to expand...
Fairing (aka tupperware) removal: If you can get your hands on a manual, it shows the order of removal of the various pieces. This gave me the confidence to jump in the first time. The order is not mandatory (I know experienced guys like @Igofar loosen a screw here and pull there for access to various bits) but it sure makes the job easier. Reassembling the bike is likewise easier if you put pieces back in order.

I don't remember why it is necessary to strip the fairing to do a brake bleed. Larry talked about raising the tank and pulling the right side cowl away from the frame to access the bleed nipple on the proportioning valve. All the other pieces are exposed. PM him and ask about a phone call. My cell plan charges big bucks for a call to Canada, but my friend in Montreal can call me for free. Too, there is googlechat - a video w/ voice app that is likewise free. Larry might not be able to phone you, but he can video conf you, or you can initiate either to him - no cost.

Read John Heath's how to at least twice. Yes, his knowledge is intimidating, but heck, you have mastered harder things. Next time you are feeling defeated, go back to your karate training. There is no room for that feeling when facing a new opponent. Take a few deep breaths into your tanden and then just do it.
 
Some use cardboard with a sketch of the fairing pieces on them, and put the removed fasteners in holes in the cardboard.

Some use egg crates or plastic partition boxes, like a fishing tackle box or those with plastic dividers you get at hardware stores. Lowe's and Home Depot here, don't know what's in Canada.

Some will have a couple magnetic bowls to put the fasteners in.

I just put them back in the holes they came out of when removing fairings. It matters which bolts go back where.
 
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