1990 Pan (sympathetic) restoration

[GrumpiestGoblin]

Hi everyone!

Where’s the best place to start with this one? Probably the beginning….

I’ve been riding bikes for over 25 years, and rebuilding them for maybe 24 years and 11 months… in that time I’ve had everything - small nakeds, big nakeds, Blades, GSXR thou’s, GS’s… you get the idea. At times I’ve been lucky enough to have had a ‘second’ bike alongside my main one - something to fettle. I’ve currently got a pristine Blackbird which, as amazing as it is, needs nothing more than an occasional polish to keep jt looking, well, pristine. Plus, creeping towards (OK, maybe at) middle age means it’s not the comfiest over long distances for me.

So, that nagging itch to get a project started to appear again. Unfortunately my bank balance meant I would have to find a cheap way to scratch it….

There were a few criteria.

1. It had to be cheap
2. It had to need more than a polish
3. It had to be useable once done (so big/comfy)
4. It had to have an interesting engine. No online 4’s!

I’ve had three GS’s, so didn’t fancy a fourth, Triumphs…plastic tanks on the old ones disintegrated I’m told, so, no. I’ve had two VTR firestorms, and they’re available for relatively little money…they go very well and I know my way round one (having rebuilt one years ago)….

“I’ve found you a bike” says my Dad (72 and still looking out for me). “It hits all the criteria! Check out the eBay link I’ve sent you…”

A week later and a 450 mile round trip, I’m the owner of a 1990 ST1100 Pan European with 29k miles on the clock which, having not turned a wheel in 13 years after the previous owner passed away, is in need of some serious love.








You get the idea…. Behind the plastic it’s not much prettier……

anyway, a quick wash later and it she started looking slightly happier…



Took all the plastic off, carefully looking it over - couple of small cracks here and there, but 33 years old and she’s fairly unscathed. Both bumper rails are scuffed, but they’re cheap, so I’m unphased…

Underneath its a different story. Theres corrosion everywhere - forks, discs, frame….swingarm…. (We’ll come to that in good time)…. The fuel tank is 2/3 full of 13 year old vinegar and is…scrap.










Yeah - it’s a project!

There’s lots I can do myself - cleaning, spraying (essentially anything black or silver!), new seals, hoses and fluids throughout, lots of lumps to replace and about five kilos of 6mm stainless fasteners to pick up….

It’s going to be a sympathetic restoration, rather than concourse, but it’ll be mint when it’s done!

Did I mention I don’t even know if it runs yet….?

I’ll add more as I go along!

Mike

 

[Upt' North]

Mike, you're going to be busy.
But come on, it's a Honda, of course it'll start.............sometime.
Upt.

 

[klaproth]

Insanely jealous here, and wish I was there to help! Looks like a great project.

Best of luck with it, and most of all, have fun!

 

[GrumpiestGoblin]

Thanks!

I’m expecting the carb float bowls to be filled with something well on the way to being varnish…I’ll get it running though!

Unexpectedly picked up a job lot of bits locally a couple of days ago including tank, fuel pump, forks, wheels with new T30 tyres on them, two sets of carbs, downpipes, what appears to be a stainless collector and a whole heap of other bits. Had to pay more than I wanted to pay this early in the project (day….4?) but I think there’s all the big lumps I actually need further down the line, for less than it would cost me picking them up more slowly.



At least that’s how I’ve justified it to Mrs Goblin…..

anyways, I’m now skint this month, so any further work will have to be exploratory, dismantling and cleaning stuff to put away neatly, ready for reassembly!

 

[John OoSTerhuis]

I’ll be following along. Good luck. A genuine Honda Service Manual is recommended.

John

 

[ST Gui]

I'm looking forward to this resto. Much luck to you Goblin!

 

[Sunday Rider]

Looking forward to your work to bring the great Honda back to life. Whatever parts you don’t end up using can be sold or kept as spares. Guard those mirrors and mirror covers.

 

[diferg]

Good on you Goblin! This is going to be a worthy challenge. Please keep us posted!

 

[Sadlsor]

Me too, for following!
Nice timely find on the wheels and tank and such, those should help you along at some point.
I get the "sympathetic" restoration, best of luck, and DO find a service manual.

 

[GrumpiestGoblin]

Thanks everyone!

I’ve got the Honda workshop manual - it’s worth it’s weight in gold!

I snuck into the garage for half an hour today to top up the WD40 I’d put on all the downpipe nuts and the exhaust section clamps, along with the crash bar bolts.

One thing led to another, an before long I’d decided to get the crash bars off. This involved a bit of head scratching as the lower bolt is an engine bolt, needing long arms or two people. A bit of lateral thinking later and I sussed how toit…



Job done I tentatively looked at the exhaust nuts/bolts I’ve been basting in WD40 every time I walked past them for the last three days. Typically header nuts are a pain - if you’re very lucky they come off. If you’re lucky the stud itself unscrews. If you’re unlucky they snap….

Tried one…free! Two…three…four…

by now I’m thinking “Surely not…”

Five…six…seven…eight! All nuts freed, studs in place. The collector box support bolt came loose similarly easily, and the silencer bolts were fine. I’m well happy!

leaving it all in place on the bike I turned my attention to the three clamps under the bike at the collector box - one on each silencer and one on the right downpip… wait, what? The left downpipe is welded (or chemically sealed) into the collector box?



this has confused the hell out of me! The left downpipe is fixed to the collector box, but the ‘spare’ set of down pipes I have, with a stainless collector box, are all separate.

Looking at the fische on Fowlers I think my system is right, with a fixed collector box, so I’ve no idea what this is I’ve bought. Any clues? Am I missing something obvious? And how would it assemble without clamps between the downpipes and collector box - what makes the seal?





At this point I decided to stop for the day. My brain was fried and I’d pushed my luck far enough with the header stud nuts. Mrs Goblin was due back from the shop, having left me with clear instructions to hang the laundry out, and the TT super bike race build up was on the radio.

Back to work tomorrow, but I’ll find time in the week to drop the exhaust system fully and work out what’s what!

 

[ST Pili]

Great entertaining thread! Looking forward to more

 

[Hound]

You have a stainless steel collector box (almost certainly Motad) and presumably the matching Motad downpipes. The OEM system had the collector as part as the LH downpipe. They rotted, so Motad came up with a solution.



I found this account by someone who fitted a Motad system - I think it's from our very own jfheath.

Honda front pipe assembly cost is the region of £450. I searched around and found that Motad make a stainless steel pattern for about £270. You have to watch this though - no one provides any pictures - and some pipes in magazines are not the stainless steel ones. Motad pipes do fit Honda Silencers, and they do have all of the welded heat shield mounting points in place.
Motad do not provide gaskets for the silencer/collector joint. You need to keep your old ones (if you can get them out) or buy new Honda gaskets. About £17. You will also need the 4 port gaskets - these are copper rings. Patterns are available, but I ended up having to buy Honda pieces. There is no gasket between the front pipes and the collector.

Fitting

This took 2 whole days. It was not easy. Apart from the fact that the fairing has to come off, I expected the pipes to fit into place like Lego. But they didn't. The pipe fit into the collector is snug, and this presents a problem - it is almost impossible to manoeuvre this joint when everything is almost in place. It is impossible to put the collector on afterwards - the pipes did not quite line up on my bike. You cannot do this anyway without the rear wheel removed - so the bike has to be on the centre stand. But the centre stand gets in the way of installation if it is down!

I ended up fitting the left pipe. Loosely to the exhaust port, with the collector already in place. I used some Exhaust Jointing compound inside the collector - wetted with water to provide better lubrication. I couldn't use the original collector bolt - it had sheared when dismantling. In any case the old collector has a metal sleeve for the bolt. I sawed this off and used it inside the original rubber mounting point to provide a better fit for the new bolt.

I then fitted the right hand exhaust into the collector and rotated it into position, keeping an eye on the alignment with the exhaust port.

There was a considerable strain at all 4 junctions - at the engine and at the collector. So much so that the collector ended up about 2 inches too far to the right. I used a long bolt and drew it into position while jiggling the other connections. If the collector is not exactly seated, it prevents the centre stand from being retracted properly. If it has not been pushed onto the pipes far enough, it fouls the cross member on the centre stand.

 

[STeve A.]

Just popped out to check, and my exhaust down pipes both just push into the collector box.
There are clamps on both silencer joints, but nothing clamping downpipe joint.
If memory serves me there is a thick bush of some heat resistant material goes in the collector & the down pipes just push in.

Hound beat me to it .... My system is indeed a motad system which was a pain to fit, cost me best part of £500 (with Silencers) and has not given any issues once fitted.
Been on there for 20 years now, still looks good.

 

[GrumpiestGoblin]

Amazing! Thanks Hound and Steve - much appreciated, that’s really, really helpful information!

I figured I’d need gaskets for the silencers - I’m well familiar with Honda’s soft grey ones (and their price!) I’ll look at what I can use in the collector box when I get around to reassembly.

 

[ReSTored]

You need to check out Allen Millyard's ST rebuild series.

Also, I'd be joining st-riders.net as well as lots of good info as well.

 

[Slydynbye]

Motad pipes do fit Honda Silencers, and they do have all of the welded heat shield mounting points in place.
Motad do not provide gaskets for the silencer/collector joint. You need to keep your old ones (if you can get them out) or buy new Honda gaskets. About £17.

If this is true, then you need item number 10 on this diagram. 2 of them.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda/motorcycle/2000/st1100a-a-abs-ii/muffler

 

[GrumpiestGoblin]

Yep - two silencer gaskets (part 10) and four header gaskets (part 3).

 

[Hound]

As well as genuine Honda exhaust gasket rings at £5.40 each, David Silver sells repros at £1.80 each. https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/partnumber_18291MN4920P/

The muffler gaskets are £15.16 each.

Sounds like plenty of exhaust joint compound will seal the downpipes and collector.

 

[Upt' North]

I don't think you'll make the seal without the silencer gaskets, they're quite thick. I think Motad have gone under, I got two off them, so there may be some Motad ones on ebay?

 

[afrymoyer]

Congrats on the new project. And what a project it will be! Been there, done that, several times!

I'd look into some engine compression and leak down numbers before you go any further. This way you'll know if you have a healthy base to work with, and/or how far you're willing to go...