Hopefully, if I'm incorrect, someone will let us know. 
2001 ST1100 Timing Belt Challenge
- Thread starter GGely
- Start date
That makes me wonder if it was done intentionally for the (attempted) purpose of improved performance.
Larry:
Possibly, if the out-of-phase is only a few degrees. Auto engine builders sometimes will change the phase of a camshaft, but only by a few degrees.
But my gut tells me, no. It would interesting to get the history on this.
Possibly, if the out-of-phase is only a few degrees. Auto engine builders sometimes will change the phase of a camshaft, but only by a few degrees.
But my gut tells me, no. It would interesting to get the history on this.
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GGely
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The history is interesting and conveniently the 2nd owner is only a few blocks away and might able to shed some light on this.
However, he’s not a technical guy, so I’m not sure that he would actually know what it happened.
Doesn’t cost anything to ask though
However, he’s not a technical guy, so I’m not sure that he would actually know what it happened.
Doesn’t cost anything to ask though
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GGely
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Someone tell me something good...
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GGely
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What's wrong???
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GGely
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Gallows humour...
As mentioned earlier, I haven’t got any miles on this motor but it fired up easily during the pre-purchase phase and pulled strong on the 6km/4 mile ride home. No unusual noises, vibrations etc.
However, rotating the crank brings the RH camshaft and sprocket and the crankshaft all into alignment but the LH remain out.
As mentioned earlier, I haven’t got any miles on this motor but it fired up easily during the pre-purchase phase and pulled strong on the 6km/4 mile ride home. No unusual noises, vibrations etc.
However, rotating the crank brings the RH camshaft and sprocket and the crankshaft all into alignment but the LH remain out.
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GGely
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Just triple checked and #1 (front right) cylinder is definitely at TDC on the compression stroke
You scared me.
Okay, if it ran well before, you can simply use a Sharpie and make a mark where the misaligned pulley's mark should be, but is misplaced. As I've said, and nobody has dissented, what matters is the cams are returned to the same positions, relative to the crank, as they are now.
If you get the belt on with everything matching exactly as they are now, the marks themselves don't matter. They're simply an easily-repeatable way to synchronize everything, which they are now. You could actually make your own marks anywhere on the parts and it would still work.
Okay, if it ran well before, you can simply use a Sharpie and make a mark where the misaligned pulley's mark should be, but is misplaced. As I've said, and nobody has dissented, what matters is the cams are returned to the same positions, relative to the crank, as they are now.
If you get the belt on with everything matching exactly as they are now, the marks themselves don't matter. They're simply an easily-repeatable way to synchronize everything, which they are now. You could actually make your own marks anywhere on the parts and it would still work.
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GGely
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Lol, thanks Larry! Keep in mind I don’t have that much time with it running!My concern is that since the LH is out what, 5 or so degrees, that that side is not necessarily timed where it should be. I’m probably overthinking this, something I’ve been accused of before (in another forum, for another bike!) but does it make sense to pull the camshaft and realign the sprocket and the camshaft? As if I’m doing a valve adjustment?
Don't panic, your left camshaft looks OK to me, but its not 100% clear in the picture, please confirm something.
Where I think you misinterpreted things (and I don't know why Honda chose this method) is you look at the LINES on the right cylinders, but PUNCH MARKS for the left cylinder. In the last photo the line is clearly not horizontal with the head, but that's OK, the line doesn't apply for that cam. I think I see a very faint punch mark that is aligned with the horizontal edge at 9 o'clock, but can't say for sure, please confirm.
Where I think you misinterpreted things (and I don't know why Honda chose this method) is you look at the LINES on the right cylinders, but PUNCH MARKS for the left cylinder. In the last photo the line is clearly not horizontal with the head, but that's OK, the line doesn't apply for that cam. I think I see a very faint punch mark that is aligned with the horizontal edge at 9 o'clock, but can't say for sure, please confirm.
ReSTored
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I come late to the discussion but I really question if a PO or his mechanic would move the camshaft sprocket position to correct a 5 tooth timing error vs. just pulling the belt and fixing it properly, or maybe I just misunderstood the discussion.
The other thing is would a 5 tooth error cause interference and if not, how well would the engine run? Would all cylinders have proper compression readings? Is it possible that the poster, and no disrespect intended for a new ST owner, is not aware that the bike is not running 100% as it is new to him?
This is a fairly decent video of the process.
The other thing is would a 5 tooth error cause interference and if not, how well would the engine run? Would all cylinders have proper compression readings? Is it possible that the poster, and no disrespect intended for a new ST owner, is not aware that the bike is not running 100% as it is new to him?
This is a fairly decent video of the process.
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GGely
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Panic? PANIC?! We don’t need no stinkin’ panic here!
According to my interpretation of the manual drawing, the sprocket arrow with the word up should be aligned to the projection on the case; the crankshaft punch should align with the projection; the T1 mark on the crankshaft cover should align with the mark on the case and the lines on the camshaft ends should align with the edge of the head.
According to my interpretation of the manual drawing, the sprocket arrow with the word up should be aligned to the projection on the case; the crankshaft punch should align with the projection; the T1 mark on the crankshaft cover should align with the mark on the case and the lines on the camshaft ends should align with the edge of the head.
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GGely
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Hi ReSTored, coming from a GL650 Interstate I have no recent frame of reference for the performance of the ST1100, so your point is well taken.
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Hi GGely / All:
I'm watching this saga with great interest and while I am not an 1100 guy and have no direct experience on that engine - I can offer some support to the notion of the cam pulley being set incorrectly. I had a 1994 Mazda Miata which was DOHC with a timing belt and I had to change the idler pulley because it was squealing. At the time, the car was about 15-18 years old with well over 200,000 km on it and so it made sense to change the timing belt too. So....I followed the manual to the letter and set everything on the marks before removing the old belt - BUT one of the cam pulleys simply would not line up properly.
The details are a little foggy now, but as I recall, the exhaust cam was off by 120 degrees (!! YIKES !!) - and yet that engine had been running great and as far as I knew, it had never been apart except for a couple of timing belt changes which (I assume) had been done by a dealer. The intake and exhaust cam pulleys were identical and both had an E and an I index mark - but you had to line-up on the correct set of marks for each cam and mine simply wouldn't.
I guess some earlier repair person - if not the factory itself - had simply set the exhaust pulley on the index for the intake (you can see the alignment slots 120 deg. apart on the backside of an MX5 Miata cam pulley in the photo below). That slot engaged a pin that stuck out of the font boss of each camshaft and that pin would fit into either leg of the 120 deg. slot equally well.
Anyhow, after much angst, I simply removed the pulley, re-set it into the correct position without moving the camshaft itself and installed the new belt. It sure gave me a turn when I realized what had happened, but the fact that the engine ran so well (except for the squealing idler) gave me confidence that I had correctly identified the problem.
If you check, I'll bet that misaligning the gears on the ST1100 cam by an integral number of teeth (perhaps 2 or 3 - don't know for sure) will generate a 5 tooth change in the timing belt position. The important thing is that the cam IS in the correct orientation, even if the marks on the pulley are not.
Cheers and best of luck!
Pete
(down the 401 in Windsor)
I'm watching this saga with great interest and while I am not an 1100 guy and have no direct experience on that engine - I can offer some support to the notion of the cam pulley being set incorrectly. I had a 1994 Mazda Miata which was DOHC with a timing belt and I had to change the idler pulley because it was squealing. At the time, the car was about 15-18 years old with well over 200,000 km on it and so it made sense to change the timing belt too. So....I followed the manual to the letter and set everything on the marks before removing the old belt - BUT one of the cam pulleys simply would not line up properly.
The details are a little foggy now, but as I recall, the exhaust cam was off by 120 degrees (!! YIKES !!) - and yet that engine had been running great and as far as I knew, it had never been apart except for a couple of timing belt changes which (I assume) had been done by a dealer. The intake and exhaust cam pulleys were identical and both had an E and an I index mark - but you had to line-up on the correct set of marks for each cam and mine simply wouldn't.
I guess some earlier repair person - if not the factory itself - had simply set the exhaust pulley on the index for the intake (you can see the alignment slots 120 deg. apart on the backside of an MX5 Miata cam pulley in the photo below). That slot engaged a pin that stuck out of the font boss of each camshaft and that pin would fit into either leg of the 120 deg. slot equally well.
Anyhow, after much angst, I simply removed the pulley, re-set it into the correct position without moving the camshaft itself and installed the new belt. It sure gave me a turn when I realized what had happened, but the fact that the engine ran so well (except for the squealing idler) gave me confidence that I had correctly identified the problem.
If you check, I'll bet that misaligning the gears on the ST1100 cam by an integral number of teeth (perhaps 2 or 3 - don't know for sure) will generate a 5 tooth change in the timing belt position. The important thing is that the cam IS in the correct orientation, even if the marks on the pulley are not.
Cheers and best of luck!
Pete
(down the 401 in Windsor)
Last edited:
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GGely
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And that’s the video I’ve been reviewing in preparation for doing the timing belt change.
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GGely
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That’s encouraging, Pete!
On an other note, I have family and business in Windsor. We’ll have to grab a coffee sometime.
On an other note, I have family and business in Windsor. We’ll have to grab a coffee sometime.
No, only true for the right cams, the left cams use PUNCH MARKS
Wait. There's a big difference between five degrees (out of 360) and five pulley teeth (out of maybe 40). Which is correct?
My concern is that since the LH is out what, 5 or so degrees, that that side is not necessarily timed where it should be. I’m probably overthinking this, something I’ve been accused of before (in another forum, for another bike!) but does it make sense to pull the camshaft and realign the sprocket and the camshaft? As if I’m doing a valve adjustment?