5W 30 engine oil

[ST-Traveler]

Just use Honda brand 10W40 motorcycle oil and don't look back now get out there and ride.

I have 149,800 miles on Honda Motorcycle oil in my ST1300. It takes all the guess work and worrying out of it.

 

[red one]

Just use Honda brand 10W40 motorcycle oil and don't look back now get out there and ride.

I have 149,800 miles on Honda Motorcycle oil in my ST1300. It takes all the guess work and worrying out of it.

You took the words right from my lips

 

[red one]

Never could understand the oil treads. Cars, Motorcycles, Lawn Mowers, 18 Wheelers are all the same. That is people asking what oil should I use or should use while the answer is right in their crankcase. You see these people have thousands and thousands of dependable service miles with no failures on the oil. You should keep filling your crankcase with that flavor of oil. There is no magical oil that will make you vehicle last and last. Only proper oil changes and filter changes will guarantee your steed will last. 20 years of Honda GN4 in my bike has been good. But truth be told I would have gotten the same 20 years from any top rated motorcycle spec'd oil. I just use Honda cause it makes me feel good.

 

[beemerphile]

So what's the practical significance of Rotella claiming to meet JASO requirements on the label, and being officially certified as JASO approved?? Does that mean Shell has tested it themselves and can claim it meets the requirements, but never submitted it to the JASO organization for official testing and approval?? Since they don't sell it as motorcycle oil, they probably don't want to pay the fees associated with having it officially JASO approved, is that the real difference, or is there more to it than that??

The listing fee is 40,000 yen, or about $360 according to this information from JALOS (see Appendix 1)...

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1904.pdf

Without knowing Shell's logic for self certifying Rotella and officially certifying their motorcycle oils, I am doubtful that the reasoning has much of anything to do with Shell saving $360. We can each make up a rationale, but only they know why they did it.

 

[dduelin]

Well, someone has to mention that T6 Rotella 5w40 is no longer certified for gasoline engine use.

 

[Larry Fine]

Well, someone has to mention that T6 Rotella 5w40 is no longer certified for gasoline engine use.

Okay, I'll do it.

T6 Rotella 5w40 is no longer certified for gasoline engine use.

 

[dwalby]

lucky for me I accidentally filled up with diesel the other day, seems to run great with the fresh Rotella in the crankcase (and a new set of counterfeit Iridium plugs that don't spark at all).

 

[beemerphile]

lucky for me I accidentally filled up with diesel the other day, seems to run great with the fresh Rotella in the crankcase (and a new set of counterfeit Iridium plugs that don't spark at all).

That's ok. Diesel don't need no stinkin' spark plugs.

 

[dwalby]

That's ok. Diesel don't need no stinkin' spark plugs.

exactly, that's why the non-sparking counterfeit Iridiums are perfect for this application.

 

[beemerphile]

I'm sure Shell is being sued for billions of dollars for false advertising claims. You should be a lawyer. You could make a fortune.
Chris

There is no regulation that says Shell can't say they meet the specs without being registered - they simply cannot use the JASO trademarked MA rectangle (which they don't, except on the oils that are registered). The only thing these volunteer standards organizations can enforce is the use of their trademark such as the API doughnut or the MA rectangle. Amsoil is famous for this practice. Whether you accept Shell's (or Amsoil's) statement of the spec compliance depends on whether you have confidence in Shell (or Amsoil). Unbiased third-party certification is generally held in higher confidence.

The other user advantage is that the testing is repeated occasionally to confirm that current product conforms. It is possible for a formulation change to make the product non-compliant to the standard. Let's say you, oh, I don't know, use a diesel oil in an off-label gasoline engine application and the manufacturer makes a change to make the product perform better for it's intended market segment and that change makes it less suitable for gasoline engines. Are they obligated to inform off-label users that the product is no longer suitable for the off-label use? Unless it is dual-rated, no, but good ones (like Shell) might do so if they know the use is significant and they value their reputation. If you were using it for its labeled use, well, they wouldn't likely make a change that would cause it to be unfit for that use.

 

[beemerphile]

Well, someone has to mention that T6 Rotella 5w40 is no longer certified for gasoline engine use.

In current Shell product .pdf's I don't find ANY Rotella synthetic oils to be S-rated - the API rating for spark-ignition (gasoline) engines - except T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 and (obviously) Shell Rotella Gas Truck full synthetic motor oil. The Rotella synthetic oils without gasoline engine endorsement include T6 (0W-40, 5W-40, 15W-40); T5 Ultra (10W-30); and T5 (10W-30, 15W-30). Curiously, even though no longer rated for gasoline engines, T6 5W-40 and 15W-40 are still self-certified to meet JASO MA/MA2. The Rotella T4 conventional 15W-40 no longer shows a gasoline rating either and still shows JASO MA/MA2 self-certification.

Does this mean only that the oils don't meet API SN? Were they tested to earlier API SJ, SL or SM specs and failed, or would they still meet API SJ, SL or SM if they were tested to those standards? We do not know, but the ledge that the HDEO adherents are standing on is getting smaller and smaller.

 

[SMSW]

Funny how so many of us get sucked into oil threads (reading and/or posting). Must be something addicting here. I too, am guilty as charged.

Winter is clearly stretching on too long. I wanna go out riding....

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I'm sure Shell is being sued for billions of dollars for false advertising claims. You should be a lawyer. You could make a fortune.
Chris

Because I read the label on the container?

When I was shopping for oil last fall to do my winter storage oil change I could not find any oil in the 5W30 through to the XXW40 range with the JASO MA certification symbol on it except for motorcycle specific oils. This included Shell Rotella T6 full synthetic oil in any viscosity. None had had the JASO MA certification symbol on it. At that time Shell's website did not claim JASO MA certification and neither did JASO. If it was JASO MA certified I would think that it would have the symbol displayed on the container and JASO would have it listed as well. Neither was the case. Without JASO MA certification it is not certified by JASO for wet clutch applications. Whether it meets the JASO MA requirements or not does not change that fact.

You were very specific in writing that Rotella T6 5W40 is JASO MA certified. I was curious if you wrote that because you had purchased some with the JASO MA certification symbol listed on the container. I would have been happy to hear that. Even though all of the containers I looked at last fall did not have the JASO MA certification symbol on them, it is very possible that they received this certification since I last checked and you had purchased one. So I asked.

It was intended as the simple question that it was. I am genuinely interested to know because if it is now JASO MA certified I would buy it from now on. It is easier for me to buy and usually cheaper than most motorcycle specific oils. It was not a question intended to upset you. Had I known its potential to do so I would simply have looked it up for myself yesterday instead of asking.

To that end I went and looked at the JASO list this morning. I know you have no interest in what I write but I will share what I read anyway in case there might be someone interested in what JASO states, or rather what they don't state. They do not state that any of the Shell Rotella T6 line are JASO MA certified that I could find. I did not find any Shell Rotella T6 full synthetic engine oils of any viscosity on the JASO list. One, or several, may well meet the JASO MA requirements. However, if they are also JASO MA certified I was not able to find this stated by JASO anywhere.

I somehow doubt that Shell has any concerns about being sued for false advertising over this. From what I understand they are not claiming that this oil has JASO MA certification in the first place so they have no liability in that regard. All should heed the old adage of buyer beware however as this is nothing more than my non-legal opinion as, despite your very generous compliment, I am indeed not a lawyer.

 

[dwalby]

Andrew, I just purchased a gallon of T6 a few weeks ago, and the container states something to the effect that it meets the requirements of JASO-MA and JASO-MA2. But, you are correct that the JASO governing body hasn't actually approved it, so that's why its not on its list, and the container does not display the JASO symbol.

 

[beemerphile]

I stopped by at a local store and took the pictures of the motorcycle oil they had on the shelf. It seems you can't trust what you read on the bottle any more. All of the "motorcycle" oils only state they meet or exceed the JASO MA/MA2 specs. None of them have the JASO label on them.

The last example doesn't even show an API S (as in SG thru SN) service rating for gasoline engines. I guess you can use it for diesel engines with wet clutches - oh wait - there aren't any of those!

This is was a for real MA mark looks like

 

[Shawn K]

@Daboo - Would you believe that I was just at the store today, and took the exact same pictures? I was just now going to make a post about the same things you just said.

That's weird...

 

[beemerphile]

That's weird...

No, what's weird is a bunch of grown men running around snapping pictures of oil bottles.

@SMSW is right, we need some riding weather

 

[SMSW]

@Daboo - Would you believe that I was just at the store today, and took the exact same pictures? I was just now going to make a post about the same things you just said.

That's weird...

Go ahead! This is an OIL thread...anything goes.

 

[Igofar]

The last example doesn't even show an API S (as in SG thru SN) service rating for gasoline engines. I guess you can use it for diesel engines with wet clutches - oh wait - there aren't any of those!

This is was a for real MA mark looks like

I almost spit soda on my keyboard when I read this label.....
Honda conforms to Honda requirements for motorcycle lubricants....

 

[beemerphile]

Honda conforms to Honda requirements for motorcycle lubricants....

I don't have any more soda to spit. I spit it all on worrying whether the MA rating is real or imagined on an oil that isn't even listed as applicable for gasoline engines.