I think you read the symbol too literally. The first "Honda" part in bold isn't meant to be read with the other text, its a type of Honda logo associated with that "Honda" stamp of approval. Its not the best graphic design though, it does look a little weird the way they designed it. Using the actual Honda logo would probably have been better than just using the word "Honda" in bold print for no apparent reason.I almost spit soda on my keyboard when I read this label.....
Honda conforms to Honda requirements for motorcycle lubricants....
5W 30 engine oil
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Andrew Shadow
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I contacted Shell directly and asked them the question.
This Shell America representative states that Shell Rotella T6 is not JASO MA/MA2 certified. This is consistent with what is published both on the Shell and JASO websites.
(I did not include his full name, email address or phone number as I don't believe these should be shared without permission.)
Hello Andrew,
Note: For additional questions, please reply to XXXXXXXXX-us@shell.com referencing the case number above (please do not change the subject line)
Rotella T6 products are popular for wet clutch applications since it meets the JASO specification though we do not have the approval or certification.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
JP Coxxxxxx
Shell Technical Information
1-800-XXX-XXXX (Option 3, 1)
Shell Technical Help Desk
Last edited:
An interesting question for the Shell rep would have been whether T6 meets any of the API service marks for spark ignition (gasoline) engines since no API S rating is given in the product literature except for the 5w-30 T6 Multi-vehicle product.
Andrew Shadow
Site Supporter
I never thought to ask quite honestly.
Having experienced clutch slippage due to choice of oil once already I was only thinking about the issue of JASO MA certification.
Having experienced clutch slippage due to choice of oil once already I was only thinking about the issue of JASO MA certification.
Well that should be the end of THIS discussion on the
subject. However, it is highly unlikely that it will change anyone's mind, whether a fan or not of using diesel oil in a gasoline powered engine.
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
So what kind of oil should you use in your popcorn popper?
Would that depend on whether it has a wet clutch or not?
Would that depend on whether it has a wet clutch or not?
Uncle Phil
Site Supporter
But can you use it in diesel as well as gasoline popcorn poppers?Coconut oil for sure.
I understand coconut oil is also good for wet clutches even though it doesn't have the JASO MA/MA2 certification.
Use a hot air popper, if you want to fit in with the content of this thread.
Shawn K
Professional Cat Confuser
nice one Forest, but with a hot air popper should you use an OEM air filter, or K&N??
I think K&N makes butter flavored oil for this particular filter application, which may be a plus.
Sadlsor
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My understanding (FWIW) is the only / BEST way to determine the actual effect of your beloved oil selection is to have the used oil ANALYZED by a 3rd-party testing facility. I know they are out there, but I've never used one.
Has anyone here ever sent an oil sample to a lab for inspection? Which lab did you use?
I think that some of the data received would include iron/metal content, breakdown of the molecular chain (there's a word for that, which escapes me at the moment), and other factual, chemical results. This will provide a synopsis of the efficacy of your choice of oil, and to some extent how much of your internal motor parts are being / have been worn away.
I understand the tone and reason for the initial OP question.
Some will actually go to the source (in this case, Shell), others will research, and many will become so confused that they continue with whatever brand / lubricant as they always have.
Thanks.
(Joe Friday voice: "Just the facts, ma'am.")
Has anyone here ever sent an oil sample to a lab for inspection? Which lab did you use?
I think that some of the data received would include iron/metal content, breakdown of the molecular chain (there's a word for that, which escapes me at the moment), and other factual, chemical results. This will provide a synopsis of the efficacy of your choice of oil, and to some extent how much of your internal motor parts are being / have been worn away.
I understand the tone and reason for the initial OP question.
Some will actually go to the source (in this case, Shell), others will research, and many will become so confused that they continue with whatever brand / lubricant as they always have.
Thanks.
(Joe Friday voice: "Just the facts, ma'am.")
Blackstone Laboratories
But testing is not the solution to using the wrong weight, grade, or spec. The Mark 1A Owner's Manual is sufficient for this. BTW, Shell doesn't know either.
But testing is not the solution to using the wrong weight, grade, or spec. The Mark 1A Owner's Manual is sufficient for this. BTW, Shell doesn't know either.
Since we have never heard of an oil related engine failure here, using a wide range of different oils in the ST, you're basically paying to accumulate potentially interesting, but ultimately useless data. Over the life of the engine you'll pay several times the cost of a used replacement engine in data analysis fees, so what's the real benefit of doing it at all even if the engine eventually needs to be replaced, which it won't.
As an engineer I appreciate instrumentation, data collection and analysis, etc. but I've never seen the value of oil analysis for a motorcycle, YMMV.
I really liked that phrase, "potentially interesting, but ultimately useless data".
Well said. When I was in the USAF, the NDI lab would process oil. The analysis was valuable there because they could identify components that were failing before the component would take out the entire engine. The cost of the spectroscopic analysis was minor compared to the cost of a new engine.
But on an ST engine...or really any other motorcycle engine...how many fail? Few. And certainly with the few miles most owners put on their bikes, all the fuss and bother about oil is a waste of time, energy and brain cells.
Chris
Come on guys, it is useful for confirming a good oil change interval. Once that is done, not so much. My tests on Honda GN showed it about to go out of viscosity range after 5000 miles. I know that the engine has been repeatedly proven to ignore the insult, but the engineer in me still changes it before it goes out of grade. In this case, the 5K interval is easy to do mentally without keeping a PMS board in the shop with all the vehicles, mileages, and next service dates on it.
Years ago, the Paradise Garage did a test of Mobil 1 and Amsoil oil in a Chevy Camaro. I'm going from memory but I believe they hit @18,000 miles before the oil broke down enough to require an oil change. The oil tests were done by Blackstone Labs.
Chris
Chris
Not the same as a motorcycle because of the oil being shared by the transmission gearbox, but I get your point, synthetic oils are pretty bulletproof.
and isn't Honda GN always one of the worst performers in oil analysis databases?
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Did that Chevy have a wet clutch and a set of gears chopping up the long chain polymers every revolution?
Didn't think so.
Didn't think so.
Sadlsor
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The value, I suppose, would be primarily for those who seem to have a penchant for agonizing over such minutia, that's all. So, for those OCD personalities who create, dwell on, or contribute to the (for some) typical, inexorable, meaningless, futile and inconclusive "oil threads", this is the single most effective way to determine "WHAT IS MY OIL SELECTION / CHANGE FREQUENCY / BRAND / WEIGHT / VISCOSITY" *really* doing to my engine?
From all the many, many oil threads I've observed over the years, it appears the consensus, if there is ever one, is to change the oil and filter at regular intervals.
And you get to determine what is an interval.
But I agree - oil-related engine failures seem to mostly be all hat and no cattle.
Your analogy or metaphor may vary.
From all the many, many oil threads I've observed over the years, it appears the consensus, if there is ever one, is to change the oil and filter at regular intervals.
And you get to determine what is an interval.
But I agree - oil-related engine failures seem to mostly be all hat and no cattle.
Your analogy or metaphor may vary.
I think we get all anal and OCD over oil. Actually, I think we get that way over our motorcycles in general.
Do we treat our cars the same way? Except for a few of us, we don't. We get in our car and drive away. When it comes time to change the oil, ...or if we manage to think about it...we change it with whatever the Jiffy Lube place has in stock. Checking the valves? Nah. We never think about it on our cars, but we obsess about it on our motorcycles.
Several of my cars had engines less sophisticated than the ST's engine...and smaller. Yet they moved a vehicle that weighed double or more without issue.
You guys need to go out and ride.
Chris
Do we treat our cars the same way? Except for a few of us, we don't. We get in our car and drive away. When it comes time to change the oil, ...or if we manage to think about it...we change it with whatever the Jiffy Lube place has in stock. Checking the valves? Nah. We never think about it on our cars, but we obsess about it on our motorcycles.
Several of my cars had engines less sophisticated than the ST's engine...and smaller. Yet they moved a vehicle that weighed double or more without issue.
You guys need to go out and ride.
Chris