Big mistake...R1200RT!

Is it true in order for the BMW Warranty to be in full force and effect, all servicing MUST be performed by an authorized BMW Motorcycle dealer?

Not in the US. The Magnusson-Moss Act forbids a manufacturer from tying specific products or services (i.e., must be serviced by an authorized dealer or the oil must be their brand) to the warranty unless they're provided free-of-charge.

--Mark
 
How many posts have you read about ST owners tipping over their bikes; only the plastic wing was scratched. I think the RT could be very expensive.

You're right it would most likely be more expensive to drop a RT vs. ST. However because the center of gravity of the RT is much lower, as it should be, the likelihood of dropping the RT is greatly reduced. I've owned both and never dropped ether (knock, knock). But I did have some very close calls with the ST. The handling of the RT at any speed is superior to the ST but at low speed there?s no comparison.

When I was a kid we had a few head of cattle and one of my jobs was to muck out the stalls with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. I never tipped the wheelbarrow over when it was empty.

As a comparison; the RT handles like an empty wheelbarrow while the ST handles like a wheelbarrow full of??let?s just say it?s ?tippy?.
;)
 
You're right it would most likely be more expensive to drop a RT vs. ST. However because the center of gravity of the RT is much lower, as it should be, the likelihood of dropping the RT is greatly reduced. I've owned both and never dropped ether (knock, knock). But I did have some very close calls with the ST. The handling of the RT at any speed is superior to the ST but at low speed there’s no comparison.

When I was a kid we had a few head of cattle and one of my jobs was to muck out the stalls with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. I never tipped the wheelbarrow over when it was empty.

As a comparison; the RT handles like an empty wheelbarrow while the ST handles like a wheelbarrow full of……let’s just say it’s “tippy”.
;)

Um.. I don't have issues with slow riding on the ST, you just gotta ride it right...

like these guys...


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2978691536657841544&q=st1300+police&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Tom
 
I ride the ST at slow speeds a lot and found it did take a lot of getting used to since it does have a high center of gravity (compared to cruisers that I ride and the old KZ1000). The key is counter balancing and friction on the clutch (like you all didn't know that, but just sayin).

Getting ready to spend two weeks with an 1150 R and have been told the biggest difference between the two, as far as slow speed riding goes, is the clutch. ST wet clutch, R (and RT and all Bimmers) dry clutch, so you have to work the rear brake more with little or no clutch. I prefer to work a wet clutch for controlling slow speed riding, but just my .02.

But for average riding around town and certainly touring, I don't know how much of a difference the clutch would make. Probably would come down to personal prefrence.
 
I don't get it. I have read a countless number of posts about the ST being top heavy. Am I missing something here? I have been a very active rider my whole life and never had I had a issue with any Honda motorcycle being top heavy. The only bike I have ever riden that was top heavy was a BMW K1200LT. I can drive the ST at .25 mph, and turn it at that speed without issue. Now I am not saying that the R1200RT is even more nimble (can not say because I have never ridden it). However, I can say that if you have an issue with the ST being top heavy, you had better start taking some riding courses to sharpen your skills. The ST is a very easy bike to ride, and this includes turning sharply into a parking space, two up, fully loaded, at slow speed.

Texas
 
St is not top heavy to me, I had a Honda Turbo it was very top heavy, My buddy has a Conny 03, full of fuel its a bear at low speeds.
 
To me, the maintenance costs are the biggest difference between these machines. When my list was down to BMW RT, FJR and ST the Beemer was scratched off my list for maintenance costs.
 
I don't get it. I have read a countless number of posts about the ST being top heavy. Am I missing something here? I have been a very active rider my whole life and never had I had a issue with any Honda motorcycle being top heavy. The only bike I have ever riden that was top heavy was a BMW K1200LT. I can drive the ST at .25 mph, and turn it at that speed without issue. Now I am not saying that the R1200RT is even more nimble (can not say because I have never ridden it). However, I can say that if you have an issue with the ST being top heavy, you had better start taking some riding courses to sharpen your skills. The ST is a very easy bike to ride, and this includes turning sharply into a parking space, two up, fully loaded, at slow speed.

Texas

I agree... an old MC cop who was my MSF instructor says "... at slow speeds, lean the bike, at higher speeds lean with the bike...".

This has worked wonderfully on everybike I've ridden...


Tom de
 
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You're right it would most likely be more expensive to drop a RT vs. ST. However because the center of gravity of the RT is much lower, as it should be, the likelihood of dropping the RT is greatly reduced. I've owned both and never dropped ether (knock, knock). But I did have some very close calls with the ST. The handling of the RT at any speed is superior to the ST but at low speed there?s no comparison.

When I was a kid we had a few head of cattle and one of my jobs was to muck out the stalls with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. I never tipped the wheelbarrow over when it was empty.

As a comparison; the RT handles like an empty wheelbarrow while the ST handles like a wheelbarrow full of??let?s just say it?s ?tippy?.
;)
That's a cute story. I am associated with a large club of primarily BMW riders. When you get a number of oilhead and hexhead boxers together it is surprising the large number of bikes with scratches on the cylinder heads. While you may have never dropped your RT many other owners have tipped their wheelbarrows over.

I practice slow speed riding alot and my 720 lb Honda is easier to complete full lock turns and figure 8's than my 430 lb BMW boxer, the difference for me being the ease of using the friction zone of a wet clutch and the feel of sitting "down in" the ST vs. sitting "on top" of the taller R100. Recent reviews of the R1200RT mention it feels tall and tippy compared to the ST or FJR so this is very much a subjective area.
 
That's a cute story.
I practice slow speed riding alot

All kidding aside, they are both great bikes. I think the reason that I was able to handle the ST and now the RT is that like you I practice. I also was willing to give up a weekend to take the experience riders course. This summer my brother in-law bought a big jap cruiser. I advised him to spend a little time practicing in the parking lot at slow speed. He didn?t and has dropped his bike three times. The final mishap resulted in my sister needing knee surgery.

In truth I have no emotional investment in either bike or any bike for that matter. I simply ride the bike that best meets our needs. If next year or the year after there is something out there that is a better fit for us I?d switch in a heart beat.

If anyone is considering either bike feel free to pm me with any specific questions you might have. Nearly all my riding is two up typically 300 to 500 miles a day. Last year we put about 10k miles on our ST. This year we got started late and currently have about 5k on the RT.
 
To me the RT is a fantastic bike, with an awful engine, i was shocked when i first rode one, I was all excited to take my buddies out, first thing I noticed is when I started it, the mirrors became almost useless with them shaking so bad from the vibes, the shield rattled all over the place, it was worse than my wifes 883 Sporster

I like the bike, the handling etc... but that motor ruins it for me, honestly I felt like I was riding a big POS that some one had built out of spare parts, My Buddie who swapped with me and rode my ST just smiled and said THATS NICE!!! he told me he wished he'd bought a ST instead and saved the extra money.

I love BMW's, I wish I could afford the new GS800 thats coming out, but that boxer motor has seen it's day come and I think it's time for it to go away.
 
but that boxer motor has seen it's day come and I think it's time for it to go away.

Fortunately, BMW Motorrad and it's 80,000 plus and climbing a year in sales boxer owners don't agree with that assessment. The boxer has a loyal following among the Roundel set and they already tried to kill it once before with the K series in the early 80's. If it does go the way of the dodo bird, it will be emissions that does it in. And from the scuttlebutt I hear, there is talk of the next gen going liquid cooled, someway, somehow. If you believe that.

I liked the smoothness of my ST when I had it, and I like the experience of the RT as well... they can't really be compared power plant-wise... totally different. BMW without a boxer is like Honda without that V-4 or H-D without that V-twin... they will sell. I know I am happy with my RT... served me well in all three models I have owned.

But I can understand your viewpoint coming from the ST and trying out the RT... different strokes (or in this case, 180 degree opposed ones) for different folks.

Cheers
 
A buddy of mine rides the R12 and about 2 weeks ago we were meeting some friends to go for a ride and had to make a left hand turn where lots of fresh road construction had happened the day before. When the light changed we pulled out and started the turn me in front and left and he behind and to the right we both hit some loose pee gravel. Both uf us both went down .....all I had to do was step off of the ST after it shut off .....no harm done , just a sraped tip over wing cover .....he went all the way down and ended up with a shoulder injury...this week he's been to 4 different Honda dealerships.
 
We're you on the 1100 series or the 12? The bike does idle like a twin, but once up to speed the counter balancers kick in and vibration is not a factor until you get into triple digits, but even then it is nothing dramatic.

Having logged almot 70k miles on the 1300 and 40,000 plus on the RT the last 3 years, there are ALOT of things both manufacturers can learn from the other.

For Honda they need to stufy the excellent road manners and wind mgt of the RT. They need to look at the small touches the RT brings to the game, such as heated seats, grips, cruise control, great balance and wt distibution, class leading instrumentation, power plugs, and awesome load capacity.

For BMW they need to find out who designs the transmissions and final drives and put him to work. They need to see what makes Hondas so reliable and at the same time low maintenance. The Honda V4 is for sure the finest all around motor you can put in a touring bike, the boxer twin can never match it, but it is not trying to. It is what makes the BMW unique and allows it so much versatility in frame design and suspension.

On the open highways and town of America, where I ride and tour, the RT without question brings the most comments. It turns heads where ever I park it. It is admired by young and old, parked in a field of bikes it will be the one the folks gather around. Why I dunno, to me it looks not much different then the ST, but I rarely ever get a comment on the Honda. The bike will get you in trouble, I've been asked for a ride in at state park and outside a steakhouse. I think the deep red color of the bike has something to do with it.

For sure it is not a bike for everyone, and for anyone that has spent a lifetime on Hondas it can be a quite foreign feeling. Prior to the RT I'd logged over 250,000 miles on Hondas, including 97k on a 2001 ST 1100. I took to the 1200 RT right away, where I cared not one iota for the 1100 series.

Although my RT has been trouble free over 40k miles, I believe the Honda wins that catergory hands down.

But people are people and you never know.
 
So maybe it just comes down to whether you want a sport tourer that sounds like a Waring blender or one that sounds like George Jetson's car. Decisions, decisions.
 
Chris-Mark your calendar for weekend after Columbus Day in October. Nothing happens we'll be there in Cruso. It is our time for one last ride, in a place I have become very partial to over the years.

We meet there every year on that weekend. Hope to see ya there.
 
Fortunately, BMW Motorrad and it's 80,000 plus and climbing a year in sales boxer owners don't agree with that assessment. The boxer has a loyal following among the Roundel set and they already tried to kill it once before with the K series in the early 80's. If it does go the way of the dodo bird, it will be emissions that does it in. And from the scuttlebutt I hear, there is talk of the next gen going liquid cooled, someway, somehow. If you believe that.

I liked the smoothness of my ST when I had it, and I like the experience of the RT as well... they can't really be compared power plant-wise... totally different. BMW without a boxer is like Honda without that V-4 or H-D without that V-twin... they will sell. I know I am happy with my RT... served me well in all three models I have owned.

But I can understand your viewpoint coming from the ST and trying out the RT... different strokes (or in this case, 180 degree opposed ones) for different folks.

Cheers
Yes I agree with you totally, the BMW has it's fans, and it will be around forever, I was just saying "I" think it should go away, but that is a little harsh, It shouldn't have said that , I agree just because I don't like it, doesn't mean there's not a place for it, it just wont be in my garage. but I do wish the RT had a different motor, I think it's a fantastic bike, thats let down by an out dated engine.
 
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