OP
OP
Weren't many lights on at that hour, but I did look for the yellow Hummer as I passed Bob's work place, didn't see it.Did ya wave went ya went by?
Dark side
- Thread starter motomac
- Start date
Aww, Mac. It's right up front at the Sales Department. Right next to the fountain under the shade.
OP
OP
Well, I missed it.
The Rest of the Story:
This response was to DJ Fires' (you-tube) I am copying it from GL1800Riders.com Darkside Forum I hope the Original Poster won't mind.
----------------------Quote-------------------------
"I know the story behind this tire because I was riding with the guy who was running this tire. Or, I believe I do. I can't believe Russellville Honda has seen two exactly alike and I have seen one exactly like this and Russellville Honda replaced the one that I saw. I reported this on this board about 6 months ago.
The rest of the story:
A group of us left the Dallas area the first week of November 2008 heading to Russellville, AR for our fall leaf viewing. The guy running this tire seems to always prefer to ride in the rear of the group and did so on this trip. At our lunch stop at Mena, AR (aprox. 250 miles into the trip) he mentioned to me that his rear tire felt very squirley, especially in the turns and was causing him to drop back farther than usual. I asked him if he had checked the air in the Dunlop Run-flat before he left home. He told me that he had not and had not checked it for some time. I told him we were going to stop for gas about a mile from the restaurant and he should be sure and check it. He told me he would but I didn't ask again if he had when we stoped for gas. About 25 miles out of Russellvill the tire separated completely around the sidewall and became completely unridable. HE DID NOT GO DOWN, but the bike wobbled severely trying to get it to a safe spot to leave it. When I saw the separation I asked him if he had checked the air at Mena as we discussed and he admitted that he had not because he was last in line for gas and didn't want to hold the group up. We parked the bike in as safe place and went to Russellvill Honda and they sent a trailer after the bike. The next morning they replaced the tire with a Dunlop E3.
I believe the tire was flat when the rider left Dallas. I believe this tire ran flat for in excess of 350 miles on some very twisty roads before the failure occured. As I have reported this was the first of 2 failures of Run-Flat tires I have seen. Both were run flat for a substantial distance.
Because these run-flats handle the wing so well with 0 air pressure some will just continue riding them without air and won't know they are flat or dismiss the different feel to road irregularities. There is a difference in the feel of the bike when they are flat (no air) but it appears that some folks might not notice or just dismiss the difference. Those are the ones that really need a TPMS. "
__________________End of Quote_________________
The Car Tire works.
The Bike was not designed for this tire.
The tire was not designed for the Bike.
It just works.
The physics dont interest me, the profile and contact patch allow a safe and comfortable ride. The thicker sidewalls of a Run-on-flat tire give me some sense of security. I bet my life, and much more importantly, my loved ones life that we are riding on as safe a machine as I can buy.
If you are riding a wing you might consider it. However, on an ST,, I still dont belive that I would like to be the beta tester for something as important as this.
Thanks all. ...........................................Don
This response was to DJ Fires' (you-tube) I am copying it from GL1800Riders.com Darkside Forum I hope the Original Poster won't mind.
----------------------Quote-------------------------
"I know the story behind this tire because I was riding with the guy who was running this tire. Or, I believe I do. I can't believe Russellville Honda has seen two exactly alike and I have seen one exactly like this and Russellville Honda replaced the one that I saw. I reported this on this board about 6 months ago.
The rest of the story:
A group of us left the Dallas area the first week of November 2008 heading to Russellville, AR for our fall leaf viewing. The guy running this tire seems to always prefer to ride in the rear of the group and did so on this trip. At our lunch stop at Mena, AR (aprox. 250 miles into the trip) he mentioned to me that his rear tire felt very squirley, especially in the turns and was causing him to drop back farther than usual. I asked him if he had checked the air in the Dunlop Run-flat before he left home. He told me that he had not and had not checked it for some time. I told him we were going to stop for gas about a mile from the restaurant and he should be sure and check it. He told me he would but I didn't ask again if he had when we stoped for gas. About 25 miles out of Russellvill the tire separated completely around the sidewall and became completely unridable. HE DID NOT GO DOWN, but the bike wobbled severely trying to get it to a safe spot to leave it. When I saw the separation I asked him if he had checked the air at Mena as we discussed and he admitted that he had not because he was last in line for gas and didn't want to hold the group up. We parked the bike in as safe place and went to Russellvill Honda and they sent a trailer after the bike. The next morning they replaced the tire with a Dunlop E3.
I believe the tire was flat when the rider left Dallas. I believe this tire ran flat for in excess of 350 miles on some very twisty roads before the failure occured. As I have reported this was the first of 2 failures of Run-Flat tires I have seen. Both were run flat for a substantial distance.
Because these run-flats handle the wing so well with 0 air pressure some will just continue riding them without air and won't know they are flat or dismiss the different feel to road irregularities. There is a difference in the feel of the bike when they are flat (no air) but it appears that some folks might not notice or just dismiss the difference. Those are the ones that really need a TPMS. "
__________________End of Quote_________________
The Car Tire works.
The Bike was not designed for this tire.
The tire was not designed for the Bike.
It just works.
The physics dont interest me, the profile and contact patch allow a safe and comfortable ride. The thicker sidewalls of a Run-on-flat tire give me some sense of security. I bet my life, and much more importantly, my loved ones life that we are riding on as safe a machine as I can buy.
If you are riding a wing you might consider it. However, on an ST,, I still dont belive that I would like to be the beta tester for something as important as this.
Thanks all. ...........................................Don
OP
OP
I think the majority of us are guilty of not checking air pressure in our tires. I know as the Chapter Educator for my Wing Chapter for over 8 years, this was a topic of discussion every spring when the guys were getting ready for their first rides since winter. The rear tire air valve on a Wing is difficult to get to, hence it doesn't get the checks it should. I am just as guilty as the next Winger. If it hadn't been for my tire pressure indicator feature on the '09, I would not have known my tire was flat on the way home from Spearfish until it started to get squishy feeling on me. How often are we supposed to check tire pressure??? Every time we take the bike out for a ride. Those of us that ride every day have less tendency to do that, than the person who rides once a week or once a month.
TPadden
Tom Padden
Couldn't watch it ..... but didn't matter - I ALREADY KNOW AT FULL SPEED I'D BE IN MOTOGP SLOW MOTION
:.Second time could - confirmed itty-bitty, teeny-weeny patch
.
If I'm touring I try to check the pressure every morning.. If I'm home but riding every day I'll skip to every other ride but lately I'll got at least 4 days between times I'm on the bike so I check every time.
TPadden
Tom Padden
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2005
- Messages
- 8,539
- Age
- 77
- Location
- Kingman, Arizona
- Bike
- 2000 ST1100 ABS TCS
- STOC #
- 004
That's the only time I've ever used firewood to hold the wheel off the gravel.Do we put our flip-flops on before or after we kick the tars
TPadden
Tom Padden
When it comes to changing tars; you da man :bow1:.That's the only time I've ever used firewood to hold the wheel off the gravel.
Blue STreak
Bob Meyer
I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind. Ride what you want to ride, it's your money and your skin. But I can't help but think that if square profile, thick treaded car tires really provided more traction and better cornering you'd see every race bike on the track running car tires. Superbike teams and MotoGP teams have the budgets to run whatever works best, and motorcycle tires manufacturers supporting these teams are under huge pressures to provide better, faster, stickier, longer lasting tires.
Based on the claims proponents make, these tire companies could meet all the goals simultaneously simply by switching to car-style tires. The fact that it hasn't happened ought to say something.
Yeah, I know, racing is an extreme case. But so are emergency situations, where you need all the cornering traction you can get. THAT'S where a car tire is going to fail you.
Based on the claims proponents make, these tire companies could meet all the goals simultaneously simply by switching to car-style tires. The fact that it hasn't happened ought to say something.
Yeah, I know, racing is an extreme case. But so are emergency situations, where you need all the cornering traction you can get. THAT'S where a car tire is going to fail you.
Blue STreak
Bob Meyer
I use a SmarTire system, so yes, I check my pressures every ride. Given the potential effects of low tire pressure, I think a tire monitoring system should be a far higher priority than some of the farkles we spend money on. From 2008 on, cars are required to have them from the factory, and a car's not going to fall over on you because the tires are underinflated.
As for difficulty checking pressure, that's what right angle valve stems are for. Put a pair of ariete valves on at the next tire change, and you won't have that excuse for not checking pressures.
The flip side of that is.. why should a tire manufactuer change? They sell something that may contain less material for more money. If I made tires I would not want to sell cheaper more available tires for a specialized segment.
I'm not trying to argue with you.. just trying to look at both sides evenly.
I don't mind trying to get a hold of a tire just to see if it fits... I don't mind doing some testing on it. I've seen a lot of videos as well as pros/cons and I know it's the internet so you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
I would think this is something the IBR riders would be very interested in as doing the whole Rally on one set of tires would put you at an advantage. But, they are also riding in extreme conditions.
I don't know if I ride enough to justify the switch, maybe if I was retired and did a ton of superslab. I also believe I'm on the aggressive side of riding so even if it does fit, even if it is as sticky if not more, I may not like the feel.
I'm still open-minded about it, yet I'm still skeptical until I can try one.
OP
OP
Gold Wings have been equipped with right angle stems since at least 1988.
You're not comparing apples to apples. Moto-GP bikes have 225+hp and weigh under 375lbs. They spend a great deal of time on the side of the tire with as much throttle as possible. There's not a street bike out there doing the same thing. Also those tires last for about 100mi not 10000+mi. Some of the power cruisers are using practically a car tire on the rear. Straight line traction is the most important goal.
It will always be what best suits all the variables. On a street bike if you are in a panic situation leaned over the first thing to do is (if possible) get the bike up before hitting the brakes for maximum traction. At which point the CT maybe even better.
I don't think anybody would say a CT will handle the twisties as well as a sport touring tire let alone a sport tire. There's always a trade off.
The trick is to always have enough traction. Anything more then that is wasted in reduced tire life.
BTW, I don't know that I'd want to try a CT because while it might meat some of my needs I don't know if it would satisfy most of them.
TPadden
Tom Padden
You had me up until "longer lasting"
. :bsflag:
Bob, not trying to argue with you, but I dont see how you can empatically say a CT will fail you in an emergency situation. If you havent ridden on one, how can you state that? Have you seen any postings or stats that blame a CT (on any kind of bike) for letting someone down in an emergency manuever? I've ridden many miles on a CT, and can state that on the VTX, it never failed me in any situation, nor given me any, repeat any, concerns that it would. In fact, I had more confidence in the CT in emgergency situations than the MT.
Not trying to argue with you, just sayin' ....
Now I will say that IMHO the jury is still out as far as a CT on the ST. This is the first time I've heard it being done (much to my delight), so there is still a lot to learn - what tire brands, ratings, etc are avaiable in our size, how does each perform, ride, traction, etc. There is a wealth of knowledge in this area on the cruiser and wing and valk forums, cause they've been doing this for many years. We (the ST community) are coming to this rather late it seems, and IMO still have a lot to learn. This is a very key point, we may not have as much success as others running a CT primarily due to the choices available. But that doesnt necessarily mean it's a bad idea.
The ST may not be as good a candidate for a CT as a Wing or a VTX or other similar models, for obvious reasons. It might be possible to put a CT on an ST, and it might work for some. But just as there are differences in ride and traction in MT, the same is true in CT in this given application. Given the slim CT choices for the ST, it may not be possible to put a similar quality tire onto an ST that one would be able to put onto a Wing or a VTX. If the only CT tire choices that will fit an ST are lower quality tires that dont offer the same ride, traction, ratings, etc as say a GYTT or Toyo or other name brand tire that fits the Wing, VTX, etc, then I'm not sure I would go that route. CT availability in a size that fits the ST is one reason I havent done it yet. If I find one I like, you can bet your sweet bippie I'm gonna try it!!! Cause I've been a Dark Sider, and not afraid to admit it.
Now as far as why tire manufactures havent done it yet, to me the MC tire is a tremendous compromise. Think about it. The bike mfgr has certain design spec/criteria to try and achieve, to appeal to a certain market. E.g sport bikes need good traction, quick turn in, high lean angle, high speed rating, etc. The tire mfgr has to design a tire to these specs set by the bike mfgr, and still make money on replacement tires and make a safe tire. I fully expect those that put on a lot of miles yearly make up a small minority of the overall MC community. Therefore I expect there isnt a real incentive for the MC tire mfgrs to make a tire with long tread life. This takes a lot of $$ in R&D, testing, etc. If the customer base isnt there, why should the tire mfgrs waste their $$$ and resources? Dunlop with their RoadSmart tires seems to be one making an attempt, but it seems they're having mixed results. I know a LOT of factors go into tread life, but if a CT mfgr can make an 80K mile tire, it seems a MC tire mfgr can make at least a 15k mile tire.
But it goes back to product demand and profitability.
You wont see a CT on a moto gp bike because they have exacting criteria that are not needed on the public streets (smooth transitions side to side, superb traction, quick turn in, etc, etc). IOW, most of us dont worry about high siding at 100+. And as far as tire life, all they need is for the tire to last to the end of the race (tire management is often crucial to winning). We poor working souls on the other hand, need to squeak out as many miles as we can. If that means putting up with some minor compromises, then many of us are willing to do it.
With more and more riders putting CTs on for varying reasons (for whatever reason - increased traction, increased tire life, better ride, safer, etc), I would hope the tire mfgrs will start noticing and make changes to MC tires to improve their tires.
Sorry for the length of the post, just had to express some of my thoughts.
Not trying to argue with you, just sayin' ....
Now I will say that IMHO the jury is still out as far as a CT on the ST. This is the first time I've heard it being done (much to my delight), so there is still a lot to learn - what tire brands, ratings, etc are avaiable in our size, how does each perform, ride, traction, etc. There is a wealth of knowledge in this area on the cruiser and wing and valk forums, cause they've been doing this for many years. We (the ST community) are coming to this rather late it seems, and IMO still have a lot to learn. This is a very key point, we may not have as much success as others running a CT primarily due to the choices available. But that doesnt necessarily mean it's a bad idea.
The ST may not be as good a candidate for a CT as a Wing or a VTX or other similar models, for obvious reasons. It might be possible to put a CT on an ST, and it might work for some. But just as there are differences in ride and traction in MT, the same is true in CT in this given application. Given the slim CT choices for the ST, it may not be possible to put a similar quality tire onto an ST that one would be able to put onto a Wing or a VTX. If the only CT tire choices that will fit an ST are lower quality tires that dont offer the same ride, traction, ratings, etc as say a GYTT or Toyo or other name brand tire that fits the Wing, VTX, etc, then I'm not sure I would go that route. CT availability in a size that fits the ST is one reason I havent done it yet. If I find one I like, you can bet your sweet bippie I'm gonna try it!!! Cause I've been a Dark Sider, and not afraid to admit it.
Now as far as why tire manufactures havent done it yet, to me the MC tire is a tremendous compromise. Think about it. The bike mfgr has certain design spec/criteria to try and achieve, to appeal to a certain market. E.g sport bikes need good traction, quick turn in, high lean angle, high speed rating, etc. The tire mfgr has to design a tire to these specs set by the bike mfgr, and still make money on replacement tires and make a safe tire. I fully expect those that put on a lot of miles yearly make up a small minority of the overall MC community. Therefore I expect there isnt a real incentive for the MC tire mfgrs to make a tire with long tread life. This takes a lot of $$ in R&D, testing, etc. If the customer base isnt there, why should the tire mfgrs waste their $$$ and resources? Dunlop with their RoadSmart tires seems to be one making an attempt, but it seems they're having mixed results. I know a LOT of factors go into tread life, but if a CT mfgr can make an 80K mile tire, it seems a MC tire mfgr can make at least a 15k mile tire.
But it goes back to product demand and profitability.You wont see a CT on a moto gp bike because they have exacting criteria that are not needed on the public streets (smooth transitions side to side, superb traction, quick turn in, etc, etc). IOW, most of us dont worry about high siding at 100+. And as far as tire life, all they need is for the tire to last to the end of the race (tire management is often crucial to winning). We poor working souls on the other hand, need to squeak out as many miles as we can. If that means putting up with some minor compromises, then many of us are willing to do it.
With more and more riders putting CTs on for varying reasons (for whatever reason - increased traction, increased tire life, better ride, safer, etc), I would hope the tire mfgrs will start noticing and make changes to MC tires to improve their tires.
Sorry for the length of the post, just had to express some of my thoughts.
OP
OP
Gosh, I certainly didn't mean to start so much controversy. I stated at the beginning I was anti-dark side for years. I never mentioned I was going to race on this tire, but all of a sudden racers don't use car tires, why should anyone else. By the way, race tires have no tread, they are bald right out of the box and they are heated before mounted on the bikes with special heating units. I stated most of my miles (90%) were on the interstate pulling a trailer. I was wearing the center out of my tires and the sides were hardly worn. Have I lost anyone yet? So, I listened to Ilovethe west, I read the posts on the Dark Side thread and thought "why not give it a go" and did. Posted my findings, and not once said everyone should go this way. Or this is the only way to go. Or anyone not running car tires is nuts. Or....
It's not your fault, this is, and has always been, a sensitive topic (not just here, but on other boards as well), more so than what oil to use. I for one appreciate your post, and am looking forward to your results. The vast majority of my miles on the slab too, and would like a better, longer wearing rear tire option.