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I don't see any controversy here, Mac. All good discussion. Some have strong opinions but no shouting so far.

I'm gonna consider it for ReSTored using the GL-1500 wheel. She's pretty much my long haul bike these days.
 

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Joe
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Mac, no one is blaming anything on you.. you have valid reasons for trying this and I have also been an anti-darksider since the first time I heard of it...

However, many of the points being made are valid and make sense - on both sides of the issue.

I'll like to try one just to see what it's like, just to see if one will fit on the ST and see how it feels... if it's too difference, I won't do it even if it may be a better option.
 

Tom Mac 04a

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With more and more riders putting CTs on for varying reasons (for whatever reason - increased traction, increased tire life, better ride, safer, etc), I would hope the tire mfgrs will start noticing and make changes to MC tires to improve their tires.

Isn't that why the companies are now putting out 2 and 3 multi compound tread tires?

... like Dunlop Roadsmart and others
 

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Joe
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With more and more riders putting CTs on for varying reasons (for whatever reason - increased traction, increased tire life, better ride, safer, etc), I would hope the tire mfgrs will start noticing and make changes to MC tires to improve their tires.

Isn't that why the companies are now putting out 2 and 3 multi compound tread tires?

... like Dunlop Roadsmart and others
Right.. that's the Roadsmart I got 8,000k and 5,800k out of.. LOL.. what did they put in the middle Buddah..
 
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With more and more riders putting CTs on for varying reasons (for whatever reason - increased traction, increased tire life, better ride, safer, etc), I would hope the tire mfgrs will start noticing and make changes to MC tires to improve their tires.

Isn't that why the companies are now putting out 2 and 3 multi compound tread tires?

... like Dunlop Roadsmart and others

I did mention in my reply as Dunlop being one of the mfgrs doing just that (only one?), you must have read over it. ;)
 
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I just checked my car in the garage, V rated tires, different sizes front and rear. I wanted to imagine what it would be like rolling the ST onto those car tire sidewalls. My comfort factor with that thought was less than zero. While that might be impossible, that is where it was...impossible. However, if it works for you then go for it. The different perspectives are important. Do we have an actual tire engineer in the forum?
 
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I ain't a tar engineer but I did stay at a Holid...

Wait, no I didn't. Never mind. :D
George, I enjoyed that. That made me chuckle.

I too like Mac am sorry for all the controversy we seemed to have stirred up. But it was a private conversation that started with me saying "I don't mean to start an arguement as this is such a controversial subject and we don't know each other at all but knowing you're an experienced rider with alot of years and miles under your belt, I was just curious what your thoughts are on running a CT seeing as how you ride an 1800 'Wing where it is so easily done."

It works, it's not for everyone and as with everything in life there are compromises to be made. Not necessarily so in racing applications where they are operating under very specific conditions.

Choices- that's what makes this country great. Hope everyone has a safe day.

Gary
 

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The flip side of that is.. why should a tire manufactuer change? They sell something that may contain less material for more money. If I made tires I would not want to sell cheaper more available tires for a specialized segment.
In the racing marketplace, the only thing that counts is performance. If Dunlop could steal a march on Michilin by going with a flat tread design in Moto GP, you can bet they would. Manufacturers don't make moto-GP tires for profit, they do it for reputation and advertising power, and nothing beats winning.
 

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You had me up until "longer lasting" ;). :bsflag:
Nope, it's not BS. Tire wear is a serious issue in MotoGP this year because of new restrictions on the number of tires that can be used in the course of a weekend. There have been several accidents attributed to riders going out on used tires in practice. And if you've watched many moto-GP races, you'll know that races have been lost because a riders tires went off toward the end of a race, while a different brand lasted better, allowing another rider to maintain fast laps to the end. Longer lasting doesn't mean thousands of miles, but in racing terms longer lasting can still matter.

A tire that wears better, allowing fewer tires to be used over the course of a weekend, and to last a full race without losing traction, is highly desired. Without compromising traction, of course.
 

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Nope, it's not BS. ...
Like all B.S - it's relative :D - but for us it's still B.S. and a non player.

The manufacturers target is only completing a 70-100 mile race on a tire (not even a weekend). If the "longer lasting" target was completing the whole season on one set of tires it MIGHT have some relevance to street use. :)
 

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You're not comparing apples to apples. Moto-GP bikes have 225+hp and weigh under 375lbs. They spend a great deal of time on the side of the tire with as much throttle as possible. There's not a street bike out there doing the same thing. Also those tires last for about 100mi not 10000+mi. Some of the power cruisers are using practically a car tire on the rear. Straight line traction is the most important goal.
It will always be what best suits all the variables. On a street bike if you are in a panic situation leaned over the first thing to do is (if possible) get the bike up before hitting the brakes for maximum traction. At which point the CT maybe even better.
I don't think anybody would say a CT will handle the twisties as well as a sport touring tire let alone a sport tire. There's always a trade off.
The trick is to always have enough traction. Anything more then that is wasted in reduced tire life.
BTW, I don't know that I'd want to try a CT because while it might meat some of my needs I don't know if it would satisfy most of them.
It doesn't matter whether you have 220 HP or 20 hp. When you're at the limit of adhesion, you're at the limit of adhesion, whether at 180 mph or 18 mph. And a situation that requires maximum lean angle can happen on the street, not just on the race track. Certainly the consequences of exceeding available traction are more serious at 180 than at 18 mph (unless the 18 mph accident happens in front of oncoming traffic), but I choose not to run a tire that was never intended to be ridden on it's edge.

Even the tires on power cruisers have a rounded tread design, at least those running motorcycle tires. Yes, because of the extreme width the curve is much more gradual, but it's there. And let not forget those cruiser don't lean very far. I suspect the factory supplied tires accommodate the amount of lean the bike is capable of without ending up on the sidewall.

"Enough traction"? Enough for what? I'll grant that in normal conditions, without a lot of lean, car tires have "enough." It's when you get into a decreasing radius corner and suddenly realize you're going faster than you intended, and have to lean over until the pegs drag. Or when you come around a curve a find a car halfway into your lane and need to rapidly increase your lean angle to clear it. Standing the bike up before hitting your brakes is a great idea, but not always practical. Standing the bike up may put you on the gravel shoulder, or into a guardrail. Or an oncoming car. It's those situations when I question whether a car tire, riding on the corner of the tread, has "enough" of anything.

The contact patch of a modern motorcycle tire gets larger when leaned over, precisely because that's where you need traction the most. The contact patch of a car tire shrinks dramatically when leaned over.

Like I said, it's not my problem--ride on whatever you want. But nothing written in this thread has convinced me that it's a good idea, or that the trade-offs for increase mileage are worth the risks.
 
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Continuing the friendly discussion: I did say Bob that I don't know if I would try a CT myself. I'm not trying to convince you, just not seeing/agreeing with the logic/rational your using to get to your position. It's a slow day at work.

It doesn't matter whether you have 220 HP or 20 hp. When you're at the limit of adhesion, you're at the limit of adhesion, whether at 180 mph or 18 mph. And a situation that requires maximum lean angle can happen on the street, not just on the race track. Certainly the consequences of exceeding available traction are more serious at 180 than at 18 mph (unless the 18 mph accident happens in front of oncoming traffic), but I choose not to run a tire that was never intended to be ridden on it's edge.

...

"Enough traction"? Enough for what? I'll grant that in normal conditions, without a lot of lean, car tires have "enough." It's when you get into a decreasing radius corner and suddenly realize you're going faster than you intended, and have to lean over until the pegs drag. Or when you come around a curve a find a car halfway into your lane and need to rapidly increase your lean angle to clear it. Standing the bike up before hitting your brakes is a great idea, but not always practical. Standing the bike up may put you on the gravel shoulder, or into a guardrail. Or an oncoming car. It's those situations when I question whether a car tire, riding on the corner of the tread, has "enough" of anything.
...
That's exactly what I'm asking/saying. If a 20hp 800lb bike at full lean has all the traction it needs then anymore is wasted. Does a CT provide that? I don't know. Some will say that a ME880 doesn't provide that. Others say it does. Some say only a Storm provides enough, others would say only DOT track tire would provide enough. Rider ability would be a factor that hasn't even been mentioned. A ham-fisted, lead foot, stay in my saddle rider might need the stickier tire more then the accomplished racer.

Personally, I think the tire manufacturers have done an excellant job of convinceing us that we need the stickiest tire available regardless of a bike's ability or the rider. Modern tires are all worlds ahead from what they use to be. Freddy Spencer and others could do more safely on bias tires then of us will ever have to do on the street regardless of the situation.
 
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Playing both videos side-by-side, it's obvious the MC tire puts less rubber on the road in upright, straight line conditions while the car tire puts down at least as much in the corners.

Mac, I'll take yur view over anything I've read on the web.
 
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