So that is what you where doing when we crested the hill in Algonquin Park and we hit the construction zone with you and Peggy following us?
Gravel??
- Thread starter corky51
- Start date
Thinking more about this, and it is absolutely the right strategy, but my observation relative to heavy pigs in DEEP gravel is that the thing that keeps the bike "up on plane" is power to the drive wheel and it can "go away" despite all your efforts to the contrary. In deep gravel with a street tire and a heavy bike, the rear wheel can lose its ability to power the bike forward, then the bike sinks and loses steering control like a boat with a cavitating prop. On gravel of lesser depth, the bike can spin down to a traction surface and provide drive. Not always so in the deep stuff, or in the really mucky stuff. No traction = no power to the rear wheel = a sink into the deep = loss of steering control.
Inability to convey power to the ground is how I ended up here last year. Me and Leroy were on plane and booking down the muddy logging road (that Garmin told me was paved) until I got into a long deep soft place where the water couldn't drain. It's way up the road behind Leroy because it took me a long time to crash. We entered the ditch way back there and ground ourselves to a stop. Throttle be damned I could not keep the speed up and Mr. Gravity sucked the heavy pig deeper and slower until Leroy started disobeying my steering inputs. This is where he seemingly wanted to be. Thank goodness for four large Georgia pulpwooders who literally picked him up and placed him on solid ground. They were afraid they would scratch him if they drug him out with a strap.
there is all kind of "gravel" In Colorado some of the mountain roads use river rock, round stones that is very loose and difficult to drive on. Driveways are usually done with lime stone that packs down nicely and fairly easy to drive on. In Wisconsin going from black top to a gravel road at about 3mph my front wheel hit pea gravel that made its way over the black top and it was if I ran over ball bearing. That front wheel just slid sideways. If your going on dirt/gravel roads I would get a tire with a bit of adventure in its DNA, IMO
sky.high
Site Supporter
One thing about gravel is, its always changing, the same gravel road is often different every time its ridden. I'm not a fan of gravel on the ST but will intentionally take routes with short sections of gravel to link up interesting roads like the St Joe river from the Montana side. Since I've been spending more time on a dirt bike, riding the ST on gravel has become a lot easier, even two up with luggage, like others have said relax, keep to a comfortable speed and go with the flow, but some gravel is nicer than others LOL
All of that and sometimes you just have to stand on the pegs!
drrod
Site Supporter
I have to second what sky.high said. Spending more time on gravel/dirt with the Vstrom has really helped. Stretches of gravel road (eg. the St. Joe road he referenced) started out to be a tense, heart in your mouth experience on the ST. Now I have to be careful not to end up going too fast and entering one of the corners a little hot.
One problem I have yet to solve is controlling my speed on long stretches where constant, slight acceleration is needed to keep the front wheel planing. If I try to slow down, the front digs in and gets squirrely. Entering the stretch at a slower speed gives you a longer time to accelerate but sometimes you can get caught out coming over a rise and hitting a stretch of deep/loose gravel or sand. No time to slow down. Can end up going pretty fast by the time you get to a place where you can slow down. Just riding slower is probably the solution but what is the fun in that!
For me, deep, slippery ruts present more of a problem that loose gravel. Road tires at 42psi are not your friend in slippery ruts!! DAMHIKT
I would add that, even if you have no intention of ever riding on gravel or dirt, taking an off road riding course is invaluable in helping you deal with loose surfaces on the ST.
One problem I have yet to solve is controlling my speed on long stretches where constant, slight acceleration is needed to keep the front wheel planing. If I try to slow down, the front digs in and gets squirrely. Entering the stretch at a slower speed gives you a longer time to accelerate but sometimes you can get caught out coming over a rise and hitting a stretch of deep/loose gravel or sand. No time to slow down. Can end up going pretty fast by the time you get to a place where you can slow down. Just riding slower is probably the solution but what is the fun in that!
For me, deep, slippery ruts present more of a problem that loose gravel. Road tires at 42psi are not your friend in slippery ruts!! DAMHIKT
I would add that, even if you have no intention of ever riding on gravel or dirt, taking an off road riding course is invaluable in helping you deal with loose surfaces on the ST.
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Pop-Pop
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- 9037
Here in boston we have wet brick, millions of wet manhole covers and raised diagonal trolly tracks. U cant b sleepy here!
while you steer with your feet while your pillion and you sing God Save the Queen in two part harmony. If neither of you can sing then playing it on pipes is acceptable.
STraymond
Site Supporter
That was Surprise Gravel - my eyes wide-ended and I tried to keep my pants dry!
Don't try to over-control the machine. There's going to be some wiggle and dance because the surface is uneven. Gravel will punish you if you death grip with your hands, or if you lock your elbows or shoulders. This is a time to get your weight off the handlebars and let the suspension and frame geometry do their jobs. Be gentle on the controls, don't change speed or direction rapidly. (I get to ride a bumpy, steep, downhill gravel driveway with a pothole the width of the driveway at the end just to leave my house).
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Agree... this and you need to maintain a minimum speed for stabilization...
For me the worst is being stuck behind a car going too slow (besides having to deal with all the dust and gravel hits...)...
And they're going out of their minds when I pass them in such a "special"...
Bingo. The rub comes when you cannot get enough traction to keep the speed up. The rear tire starts spinning; the bike begins to slow; and eventually it slows beyond the minimum speed for stabilization. It starts to sink and the front wheel begins to protest. That is why deep gravel and mud will eventually prevent this long list of helpful riding hints, though helpful and correct, from continuing to work. Otherwise, you could drive it across a lake - just keep your speed up. Proper dirt bikes have less weight plus tires designed to deliver traction on loose surfaces. Some even have side knobs so they can paddle through it. The comparatively slick road tire just gives up. The weight makes it all happen sooner. In other words, a lighter bike with the wrong tire will go farther before it sinks.
Yeah been riding here in UK for 50 years and I still hate riding on gravel.
Mind you, there are 2 things worse:-
1. Stopping on gravel and putting one foot down only to realise it's slipping out sideways, and
2. Riding on a country lane, going round a sharp bend and being confronted with wet mud from a tractor or lorry that is spread over all lanes of the road, realising there is no escape. Yes I know "be prepared to stop in the distance you can see to be clear", but we can't always be perfect.
Paul
Mind you, there are 2 things worse:-
1. Stopping on gravel and putting one foot down only to realise it's slipping out sideways, and
2. Riding on a country lane, going round a sharp bend and being confronted with wet mud from a tractor or lorry that is spread over all lanes of the road, realising there is no escape. Yes I know "be prepared to stop in the distance you can see to be clear", but we can't always be perfect.
Paul
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Warning: fresh cowpad ahead!
cyberwolf009
Eric
I thought of this thread on Friday while riding an interesting route from I-81 to the BRP. I found myself on 5 miles of luckily dry and hard-packed gravel. Definitely made for an interesting ride, especially when the extra wide hay wagon was coming the opposite direction. High pucker factor for someone with no off road experience.
Let me guess...???... You were using a Garmin GPS and had checked AVOID for unpaved roads, but got one anyway.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Ze French are notorious for not signing out roadwork/constructions...
So you're heading into a narrow valley, for the twisty pass at the end leading to whereever you wanna go, pretty steep road uphill and after the 2nd or 3rd backsweep you'll suddenly find yourself in DEEP ground... soft, freshly poured sand/gravel mix, not compacted yet, tires sink in up to the rim, excravators and diggers crawling around you like dinosaurs, thankfully I was riding solo, me whacking the throttle in 2nd gear, while standing on the pegs, leaning forward on the handlebar, rear wheel fishtailing and bouncing "...don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stooooooop..."
Worked, made it through the like 2km fully unpaved section...
So did the other ST following right behind, only our 3rd guy was not so lucky though (he later claimed that an excravator had gotten into his way...) and stopped at some point... 3 road workers had to push him for like 20 meters till the ST finally had enough momentum to keep going again...
So you're heading into a narrow valley, for the twisty pass at the end leading to whereever you wanna go, pretty steep road uphill and after the 2nd or 3rd backsweep you'll suddenly find yourself in DEEP ground... soft, freshly poured sand/gravel mix, not compacted yet, tires sink in up to the rim, excravators and diggers crawling around you like dinosaurs, thankfully I was riding solo, me whacking the throttle in 2nd gear, while standing on the pegs, leaning forward on the handlebar, rear wheel fishtailing and bouncing "...don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stooooooop..."
Worked, made it through the like 2km fully unpaved section...
So did the other ST following right behind, only our 3rd guy was not so lucky though (he later claimed that an excravator had gotten into his way...) and stopped at some point... 3 road workers had to push him for like 20 meters till the ST finally had enough momentum to keep going again...
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Since it fits:
“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.”
John Muir
“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.”
John Muir
cyberwolf009
Eric
No, Calimoto, which attempts to find more interesting roads. Some are more interesting than others... And I manually chose the waypoints, so can't blame it all on the tech.