Group Riding Fail

[ddemair]

Try the drop & sweep method, as explained by Bill Rankin. Here's Uncle Phil's description of said method.

Question about drop and sweep (and BTW, I really like it), what happens when you run out of "markers"?

I'm going to assume the leader becomes the marker, but do they then wait for everyone to join or continue when they have at least one marker behind them?

 

[dduelin]

Question about drop and sweep (and BTW, I really like it), what happens when you run out of "markers"?

I'm going to assume the leader becomes the marker, but do they then wait for everyone to join or continue when they have at least one marker behind them?

You never run out of markers. As one drops off to mark the turn the rider behind him moves into the position behind the leader and becomes the next marker.

The only two fixed riders are the leader and the sweep. Everyone else is moving up in line as markers are dropped.

 

[ibike2havefun]

Question about drop and sweep (and BTW, I really like it), what happens when you run out of "markers"?

I'm going to assume the leader becomes the marker, but do they then wait for everyone to join or continue when they have at least one marker behind them?

The leader is responsible for being aware that they are dropping the last marker, and then stopping to await the arrival of one or more previous marker riders. If it ever gets to that point, then a re-congregation stop is probably in order anyway.

But yes, the "sweep" rider is ALWAYS last in line and should never be next behind the leader.

 

[Pop-Pop]

It must b a hells angels brotherhood thing. Was once invited to side by side. I had maybe 2000 mi of experience, mostly on the interstates. The guy was risking his life and didnt know it. I declined.
im more firm in that decision now. I was in pagosa springs having a sunup coffee before my ride began. Maybe 6mule deer rushed across the road andten seconds later another batch. How many one deer could take down is uncountable. Id rather be around to help if that ever happens.

 

[ad.hom]

Question about drop and sweep (and BTW, I really like it), what happens when you run out of "markers"?

The way we've always run group rides:

Leader knows the route, almost always planned the route themselves, and doesn't need a map/GPS to follow it. If the Leader loses sight of the TWO riders behind, they pull over & wait to re-acquire. Leader usually has comms equipment linked to mobile phone, and EVERYONE on the ride has the leaders phone number. No-one overtakes the Leader, unless they wish to depart the convoy.

Bike immediately behind the leader is the marker for that junction. They stop & point the way for everyone, until Tail End Charlie rolls up & flashes lights to signal freedom.

Tail End Charlie, also knows the route implicitly, and has probably ridden it with the Leader before the group. TEC passes absolutely no-one, with the sole exception being to block traffic to let the group out in one go, if safe to do that.

Following the rules, the only way to run out of markers, is if everyone is at a junction pointing the way, and TEC has had a breakdown. In which case, Leader loses sight of the 2 bikes behind, pulls over and waits. Some minutes go by, and Leader calls TEC "hey, what's up? Where are you?"

 

[Uncle Phil]

The way we've always run group rides:

Leader knows the route, almost always planned the route themselves, and doesn't need a map/GPS to follow it. If the Leader loses sight of the TWO riders behind, they pull over & wait to re-acquire. Leader usually has comms equipment linked to mobile phone, and EVERYONE on the ride has the leaders phone number. No-one overtakes the Leader, unless they wish to depart the convoy.

Bike immediately behind the leader is the marker for that junction. They stop & point the way for everyone, until Tail End Charlie rolls up & flashes lights to signal freedom.

Tail End Charlie, also knows the route implicitly, and has probably ridden it with the Leader before the group. TEC passes absolutely no-one, with the sole exception being to block traffic to let the group out in one go, if safe to do that.

Following the rules, the only way to run out of markers, is if everyone is at a junction pointing the way, and TEC has had a breakdown. In which case, Leader loses sight of the 2 bikes behind, pulls over and waits. Some minutes go by, and Leader calls TEC "hey, what's up? Where are you?"

That's where I learned what I call "Drop and Sweep" when I rode over in your fair land.
I 'imported it' and modified it a little bit (allow passing in the pack) because of the wider variety of rider skill sets over here.
But the leader/TEC principles are the exactly the same - our 'sweep' is your TEC, your markers are our 'bread crumbs'.
What's nice over in your area is the leader does not usually 'tell' the rider behind him/her where to mark - they just know it from practice.
It's not perfect, but it sure works better than any other system I've ever seen or used.

 

[Larry Fine]

Try the drop & sweep method, as explained by Bill Rankin. Here's Uncle Phil's description of said method.

We've used that on every ride I've taken with this group. I was talking about the Richmond Riders club.

 

[red one]

Something else the leader up front must be mind full of and that is red camera lights. When I rode to Atlanta with my group there must have been 15 of us the leader cut it too close and some didn't make it through before the light turned red. Me and two others stopped and when we caught up with the rest of the bunch we were looked at funny as to why did we stop. Well about a month later several that ran the light got tickets for running a red light. I did not After 48 years of biking I like a more gentlemens like pace. Slow down and enjoy the scenery. It is said that you can ride the same roads at break neck speeds and them slow down and ride the same roads and swear its a diffrent road because you missed so much.

 

[ad.hom]

allow passing in the pack

We allow passing within the pack - but overtaking the leader, without waving "good bye" means you don't get to ride with the group ever again. Tail End Charlie signed up to the deal, and knows his job, or he's never TEC again. TEC is also usually good medically, should anyone have a serious "oops" moment.

The more confident riders tend to end up being markers/crumbs, and honestly, that's much more fun. Ride hard, have a giggle, and all while making sure the group stops together for grub.

75+ bikes, me as TEC, is probably my most memorable ride ever. Not least of which because I saved the life of an ST1100 rider.

 

[wjbertrand]

I'll happily ride two-abreast, but, only with someone I know VERY well. Off hand, I can think of 2 people, and with those, we can (and have) happily off-sided into corners and done a lot of things that could have been risky.

For bikers I know "well" - staggered, maybe 1 sec apart at 30mph is OK.

For everyone else, nope, I'm not about to fall off because you're an idiot, you get the same grace as I give to cages. Stay the hell away from me, and if you don't, I'll move away.

Not me, no way, I don't care how good the other rider is. I want room to maneuver in case of unexpected events, animals, mechanical failures, you name it, all having nothing to do with the skill of you or your riding partner.

 

[TourNut]

When you ride side-by-side , what happens when you suddenly have that tines-up dirt rake in front of both of you ?

 

[Larry Fine]

When you ride side-by-side , what happens when you suddenly have that tines-up dirt rake in front of both of you ?

 

[MaxPete]

Personally, I like to ride so that I can see the other bikes in my group, but not touch them. If I loose sight of the group, then I just do my own thing and carry on to the next way-point.

By that I mean that in the group with whom I ride, we always have a mid-morning break, a lunch break and a mid-afternoon break and we all always know the addresses of each plus the address of wherever we are staying that night. That way, if someone gets separated, they can always get to where they need to be be - fairly close to the time they should be there. The group is never more than about 20-30 minutes apart - so no biggie and no frantic searching or crazy "pack" riding.

The issues happen when someone gets separated and doesn't know where they are supposed to be going - and they panic trying to catch up.

 

[Uncle Phil]

We allow passing within the pack - but overtaking the leader, without waving "good bye" means you don't get to ride with the group ever again. Tail End Charlie signed up to the deal, and knows his job, or he's never TEC again. TEC is also usually good medically, should anyone have a serious "oops" moment.

The more confident riders tend to end up being markers/crumbs, and honestly, that's much more fun. Ride hard, have a giggle, and all while making sure the group stops together for grub.

75+ bikes, me as TEC, is probably my most memorable ride ever. Not least of which because I saved the life of an ST1100 rider.

I was not aware that passing was allowed - at least it wasn't in the group I rode with.
Oh, yeah I passed the leader once - after I recognized he was the leader as I was going by - but he forgave me!!

 

[sky.high]

I don't and will not ride drop and sweep, it confuses other road users and as such is inherently dangerous, when we ride in a group we never ever change positions, no overtaking each other and each bike has sufficient separation to allow the individual rider to 'read and ride the road' and not simple follow the guy in front, every rider (apart from the last guy) is responsible for ensuring the guy immediately behind doesn't get lost.

 

[Larry Fine]

My group has monthly sanction rides (weather permitting), always the fourth Sunday of the month, and must be a "gentle" ride as to not exclude anyone. I have led a few of those, and I go slow enough to keep the group in sight, usually 10-12 bikes.

We're welcome to use the group media to arrange our own rides whenever we want, and I've "led" a few of those, too. I tell them where we're headed, but I always stop and wait for them to catch up before taking a turn, so I can get off and walk around.

 

[st11ray]

When our group rides, we stagger, leader on the left, with about 1 second spacing from the diagonal and about 2 seconds from the bike directly ahead. The problem with stragglers is the group getting separated by lights and other vehicles.

That's why you use the "drop and sweep" method like Uncle Phil does on all of his rides. Everyone can ride at their own pace, fast or slow, and nobody gets left or lost. The best way to do group rides by a long shot.

 

[Larry Fine]

That's why you use the "drop and sweep" method like Uncle Phil does on all of his rides. Everyone can ride at their own pace, fast or slow, and nobody gets left or lost. The best way to do group rides by a long shot.

Agreed. I hadn't heard of it until I joined this motley crew.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I don't and will not ride drop and sweep, it confuses other road users and as such is inherently dangerous

Just curious as why you think it is inherently dangerous and confuses other road users.
Not trying to start a whizzing contest by any means but trying to understand your point of view.
Have you ever participated in a 'drop and sweep' ride?

 

[Mondo]

‘The man was riding a motorcycle in a group of seven motorycyclists about 10 a.m. on Virgnia and Pingree roads when he lost control and crashed into four of the drivers, according to statement from Lake in the Hills Police.’

A bit more info from Fox News today. Appears to confirm the problem was a group riding closely together.

Greg