How did all the dealerships become so dishonest?

[Igofar]

***Rant Warning***
I've been around the motorcycle business for more years than I care to admit, and I must say I'm ashamed at what its become!
You used to be able to bike a motorcycle at a fair and reasonable price, and honest fees.
Now I find that the Salespeople just outright LIE to you about everything!
Its turned into a game of moving one group of numbers to another category etc.
Yesterday I went to three different dealerships just to look around...
The first dealership was a powersports place. They had a USED BMW R nine T Urban GS with very low miles, at a surprising low price (end of year special).
I asked about it (trying to keep a straight face) They were asking KBB trade in price for it, but ALSO asking SHIPPING & DESTINATION fees of $1500 dollars (on a used bike).
I asked the kid, "didn't someone ride this in and trade it in on a different bike?" he replied, why yes, but we STILL have to include shipping & destination fee's per the dealerships instructions etc.
I guess I started laughing, and he quickly said, "I can eat that shipping & destination fee" if you buy today....
I'll play....let me see the write up, "I'm sorry we can't show that to the customers"???
Then he came back and said, the owner will drop those fees, however, he just pointed out that it was a USED bike, and it will have a $1,500 dollar used bike inspection fee.
And....$995 title fee, tax, tire recycling fee, detailing fee, flooring fee, and test ride fee.
Needless to say, I ran out before I peed my pants laughing at this idiot
The next dealership was a genuine Honda dealership.
New bike(s) Honda CFR300L Rally, and CB500X.
$1800 shipping (because of Covid) 6 hours of assembly fees at $150 per hour, and about $1000 additional dealer mark up "because we have it" and "they are hard to get".
This used to be a very Honest dealership before the owner passed away.
The last dealership had the new Royal Enfield scrambler 411 in stock (cute bikes) $5,000 list price.
Their out the door price was over $8,000 after BS.
They had a used 2022 CB500X that they were asking above retail list on a 2023 model, and the brake master cylinder was empty on the rear, and the tires badly cupped and worn.
But he assured me that would be corrected after the $1000 inspection charge before it was sold.
***** is wrong with people?
Sorry for the rant.

 

[motornut]

Are used car people spreading into the motorcycle business or are they trying to catch up to the used car business

 

[SupraSabre]

I gave up years ago checking out bikes, (not long after the ST1300 disappeared) because the stealerships of today are nothing what the DEALERSHIPS were 30 years ago! All today is about how much can they get out of you! About the only one I have gone to over the last 20 years was Temecula Motorsports, and that was because their tire prices were really good! Their motorcycle prices were a joke, but since I wasn't planning on buying one I could care less!

 

[ToddC]

I have only bought one bike from a dealer. After the sale had issues that revealed they were slimy like used car dealerships.

1983, Pullman WA, it was a used 1981 Honda CB900C with 5500 miles. My first bike. $1600.
All bikes bought since were from private parties.

 

[Sadlsor]

Are used car people spreading into the motorcycle business or are they trying to catch up to the used car business

The fact of the matter is, some large automobile dealer conglomerates ARE buying bike shops.
Perhaps (like maybe, cuz I dunno) the bike dealers / stealers are adding these fees more aggressively, in order to show higher profitability and look more attractive to potential buyers?
I was going to mention that I always buy used, but as Larry pointed out some showrooms are adding unreasonable fees to the used bikes too, I should amend my statement to "I buy used from private sellers."
So while I'll always promote and support free enterprise, capitalism and small business, there is no doubt this economic system allows for ripoff, unethical and poor business practices.
Ideally, these nasty and deceptive businesses will be their own demise, but not before some consumers are taken advantage of.
Caveat emptor, y'all.

 

[W0QNX]

Until the showroom floors are flooded with bikes to choose from it's a dealers market not the buyers.

Have you bought a new car lately? It took me 18 months to find a Honda car dealer that didn't include all those charges you mentioned Igofar and then they start adding things like nitrogen in the tires for $100 and window tint for $900..

Would like to discuss an extended warranty for your new bike? $$$$$

 

[PmodelinUS]

I have bought 2 bikes over the years from dealers. An 86 Honda V30 Magna. Bought it on layaway over the winter no bs charges. Of course this was in 1986. My ST1100 I bought from a former Harley dealership that had expanded into lots of brands, both new and used. I will say althogh the salesman had no idea what he was doing all I paid was about $300 in title and taxes. It was a cash deal and I had already figured out what those charges should be. Would I buy another bike from there questionable? I will say for parts my local Honda shop is great. Buying a bike from them not sure about that. The talk around the area is they charge too much. Unfortunatley dealers screwing people is nothing new. If you really want it you'll pay for it!

 

[Mellow]

How did all the dealerships become so dishonest?

They opened....

 

[Valker]

I don't consider it dishonest, I consider what I'll pay, tell them that price, and walk away if they won't do it. Dishonest would be assessing a charge after the purchase or removing some part after the purchase.

 

[drrod]

Are used car people spreading into the motorcycle business or are they trying to catch up to the used car business

Yes and yes!

 

[Igofar]

Until the showroom floors are flooded with bikes to choose from it's a dealers market not the buyers.

Have you bought a new car lately? It took me 18 months to find a Honda car dealer that didn't include all those charges you mentioned Igofar and then they start adding things like nitrogen in the tires for $100 and window tint for $900..

Would like to discuss an extended warranty for your new bike? $$$$$

I don’t pay stupid fees.
There is a good YouTube video iirc edge sales?
Talks about the games they play, and how not to get stuck paying them.
Being a credit union member for the county, they printed out the REAL invoice for the wife’s new CRV, and the Real destination fees, etc.
Then cut a check and said hand it to them or walk.
After much BS with with salesman/closer, they accepted it.
Saved a lot over dealers rock bottom price.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I have a very simple approach with dealers - I tell them this is what the check will be for out the door.
And then I tell them how they come to that number doesn't matter to me but that is the number.
If they can meet it, we do business, if not I go somewhere else.

 

[the Ferret]

I just came into the market of needing a new car in October. I have avoided going to a dealer to shop for a new one because I am dreading it, but one of these days I'm going to have to do it. I don't trust buying used stuff.

 

[ReSTored]

Bogus, add on fees are the rage everywhere. As dealers consolidate, choice becomes more limited. Bottom line is that if customers refuse to pay the fees then dealers will find another way to boost their revenue.

Ultimately, if some ( not us of course.....) are paying these fees then dealers know to hold out for them.

 

[Uncle Phil]

The issue is you need to know what you are willing to pay and be willing to walk away.
My last two vehicle deals included trade ins and I told the dealers what they gave me for 'trade in' didn't really matter.
My price was my price (I already had what I thought my trade in was worth as part of my price).
I laughed at the 'machinations' they went through when I got the final 'settlement' papers.
But at the end of the day I got the 'out the door' price that I wanted and the vehicle I wanted.
I made it very clear if there were any 'add ins' after I got there, I would get in my old vehicle and go back home.
And this was at dealerships 600-700 miles away from where I live.

 

[Igofar]

***Update***
This is the best dealer yet….
Was asking retail new price, for a 3 year old bike with 24k miles on it.
$1000 inspection certified
$1000 contract fee (don’t they pay someone an hourly wage to type up the bill of sale/contract)?
Why pay a fee as well….he had no answer.
All Arizona bikes have GPS installed in them for $1000 dollars, to track the bike if stolen, then they charge a fee to tell you its location.
Or to repo it if needed.
But……the best yet, the rear master cylinder was almost completely empty, so I pointed it out, this is when he said it already had the inspection, and it was supposed to be that way.
Then…..he added, that I just didn’t understand how hydraulic brake systems work, and that when you press the rear brake, all the fluid goes to the front master cylinder, and visa versa

 

[drrod]

It is not just the bike/car dealerships that are doing this. Airlines, utility companies, etc are all doing the extra "fee" thing rather than just raising the base price. Remember when there was no charge for your luggage on a flight?
The "advertised" price is used simply to get you in the door (or click on "buy") and then once they have you that far, the rest is relatively easy. My daughter is in the airline business. She said there was virtually no change in load factor when they introduced a charge for baggage. In other words, it was pure net profit that had been left on the table.

 

[dbst1300]

It’s all about the Benjamins.

 

[Igofar]

Its sad when even a HD dealership will add less BS than a Honda dealership.

 

[Al st1100]

car dealer across us. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/11/ftc-returns-more-98-million-consumers-harmed-napleton-autos-junk-fees-discriminatory-practices

The funny thing about this is unknowing buyers were charged thousands of dollars in extras and are getting $147 back