How did all the dealerships become so dishonest?

[Hondafarian]

A friend I worked with named Andy took a salesman for a test drive from their dealership. Drove to another dealership to look at the same car and let these salesman dicker to him at the same time. It worked for him but I was surprised that both did not tell him to go away and don't come back.

That's just plain brilliant and hilarious. Reminds me of the story about someone receiving a photo radar speeding ticket in the mail. So they took a picture of their check and mailed it back.

 

[dbst1300]

I have been saying for a very long time that only three life rules exist. They are:
1. Everyone is trying to take your money.
2. Everyone is trying to take your money.
3. No one listens to good advice.

 

[Auron]

Looks like clickbait but it's not. Suzuki is planning on axing dealerships

 

[Erdoc48]

I had a time when I wanted to see (but not necessarily drive) a Fiat Spyder (the newer one in the past few years)- I went there, was told I could drive it but they wanted the keys to my MR2 (2004 model year) to ‘give it a value’…I took the test drive briefly with a salesman in the car (manual shift car)- it was a nice driver but I really didn’t intend to buy one (and I clearly told the salesman this earlier)- I took him for a brief drive in my MR2 and he said ‘that’s not how we typically do this’ to which I relied ‘well, NO ONE but me drives this car’. I came back and he said he wanted to see the car and value it as above. A decent amount of time passes (like 30-40 min) and I asked what’s going on. I then had to break out the police call card- ‘Give me back my keys…right now, or I’m calling the police and telling them you’re holding me and my car hostage’. Got my keys back and walked out. I would never go back there again.

I have purchased 2 Cadillacs (an 06 CTS and the current SRX that we have, a 2012) and an Acura TL (my 2006)- all in NJ- all these purchases were like buying groceries- very easy sales and we were even friendly with the saleswoman at the Cadillac dealership.
I likely won’t buy any new cars in the future, just pre-owned from private owners. Same with bikes (I have 3 so I really don’t intend to buy any others). When I bought my Silverwing, the seller was a nice older gent and the sale was very easy (in the town next to where I live), as it should have been.

 

[Sadlsor]

Looks like clickbait but it's not. Suzuki is planning on axing dealerships

This will result in a fruit-basket turnover, with many unanticipated issues and complications... I can neither confirm nor deny, but there's an article on ADVrider about this "announcement", and there are thsoe who believe it's not gonna happen. Not sure they saw the video before posting the article, and I haven't watched it either.
Setup, service, parts, warranty work, and more hang in the balance and will have to be addressed.
As we've seen recently discussed elsewhere here, many moto-dealers are facing a come-to-Jesus moment: Adapt or die.
The old-school business model just ain't working the way it used to, and profitable dealerships are becoming like the white rhino. (Rare.)
Which is why the big-boy auto dealer conglomerates and consortiums are buying bike shops, and that doesn't seem to be the right answer, here in the early stages of the transition.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

The bigger issue I had with them was there were two defects on the vehicle when I bought it that they said they would repair for free when the parts came in. I made sure to get that in writing. After a few months they hadn't contacted me so I called and they said they had no record of anything like that

I had a similar situation regarding substantial money owed to me for accessories that were part of the purchase of a motorcycle but were never delivered after the sale. In my case they completely ignored me and just never responded to me. A relative is the CFO of one of those large conglomerates that owns car, truck and motorcycle stores. Unbeknownst to me, the place where I bought the motorcycle is one of the stores that they own. It was only a short while after I spoke to my relative about it that I got a refund cheque in the mail with no arguments and no fight.

I asked my relative what he said to them because I was completely ignored. With a devilish grin he told me that people are much more motivated to listen to the person who can withhold their pay cheque.

 

[Sadlsor]

Money is indeed a powerful motivator for many.
Which accessories did they withhold?

 

[Tor]

As far as I'm concerned, all sales people are inherently dishonest, which is why I absolutely detest those people. If I go into a dealership to buy, or even just to look at a motorcycle, or any vehicle, I would have done enough R&D on the brand and model in question to run circles around the sales people at the dealership. If they approach, and start feeding a line of BS, I usually let them know in no uncertain terms that I don't need their assistance or advice. They usually back off.

 

[Sadlsor]

...I would have done enough R&D on the brand and model in question to run circles around the sales people at the dealership.

I agree with @Tor and there are two things I don't understand here.
1. Why ANYone would go to a dealer and look at purchasing ANY vehicle, knowing absolutely nothing about said vehicle, and
2. How some of these sales staff represent and try to sell ANY vehicle, knowing absolutely nothing about said vehicle.
Two sides of the same coin, really, but it's not like the information isn't available -- just pull out your phone!
First, I'm not going to ever spend what a new bike costs, and not learn something about it beforehand.
Second, I suppose there are some folks who work for a dealer, who really are just hanging out until something better comes along. But even these people are going to get *some* training on new models, one would think.
Maybe some sales people just aren't into bikes?
It's crazy, the profound ignorance of people from both sides.

 

[DannoXYZ]

As far as I'm concerned, all sales people are inherently dishonest, which is why I absolutely detest those people. If I go into a dealership to buy, or even just to look at a motorcycle, or any vehicle, I would have done enough R&D on the brand and model in question to run circles around the sales people at the dealership. If they approach, and start feeding a line of BS, I usually let them know in no uncertain terms that I don't need their assistance or advice. They usually back off.

Once upon a time, used car salesmen were lowest form of scum. Now pretty much anyone who works at dealer is despicable.

 

[Sadlsor]

It would appear that we have an industry here with an image problem...
And I'm not arguing with any of this.

 

[dbst1300]

Once upon a time, used car salesmen were lowest form of scum. Now pretty much anyone who works at dealer is despicable.

Can’t we all just get along and give the salesman all 10s on the survey.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Which accessories did they withhold?

I bought my 2009 ST1300 as NOS in December 2012. This is when the Honda ST1300 OEM heated grips had just been discontinued by Honda but that wasn't widely known yet. The deal included the grips, the wiring harness, and the quartet harness. When the final contract was signed they told me that the grips were back-order and that they would send everything to me when they arrived. I always suspected that they found out that they were no longer available when they ordered them but didn't offer that information up and told me that they were back order instead. I really have no idea if that is true or not as I found many places online that claimed to have them at the time but when you actually ordered them they weren't available.

Fortunately I was smart enough to only agree to this after having a clause added to the sales contract that covered all of this. My CFO relative used to go to each store at least once every month to visit with the sales managers to make sure that his accounting needs were being met. He had nothing to do with sales or how that part of the business operated but I suspect that he looked up my sales contract and then went and had a friendly talk with the sales manager.

 

[SMSW]

What's with the title of this thread? If we (denizens and observers on this website) have been calling them 'Stealers' for years why is there surprise when they live up to that moniker?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

things I don't understand here.
2. How some of these sales staff represent and try to sell ANY vehicle, knowing absolutely nothing about said vehicle.

When I worked at a GM dealership they were basically two groups of salesman. The first group were interested and cared and the other did not. The ones who were interested and cared were interested in selling cars and cared about making money. They were smart enough to realize that to achieve those two objectives it was in their best interest to know their product and to take good care of the customer. These guys would spend the time when they weren't dealing with a customer reading the brochures, learning about the accessories, learning what was available on each model, learning what new features were on any given vehicle that was not available the year before. They knew their product line very well. There were only a handful of these guys but combined they out-sold the other group easily two-to-one, this in a dealership where there were probably 40 or 50 salesman. Because they made twice as many sales as the other guys they also made twice as much money. It seems that now most salesman know very little about their product. This isn't exclusive the car dealerships. I doesn't seem to matter if that product is a car or a vacuum cleaner, they just don't know anything about what they sell.

 

[drrod]

I agree with @Tor and there are two things I don't understand here.
1. Why ANYone would go to a dealer and look at purchasing ANY vehicle, knowing absolutely nothing about said vehicle, and
2. How some of these sales staff represent and try to sell ANY vehicle, knowing absolutely nothing about said vehicle.
Two sides of the same coin, really, but it's not like the information isn't available -- just pull out your phone!
First, I'm not going to ever spend what a new bike costs, and not learn something about it beforehand.
Second, I suppose there are some folks who work for a dealer, who really are just hanging out until something better comes along. But even these people are going to get *some* training on new models, one would think.
Maybe some sales people just aren't into bikes?
It's crazy, the profound ignorance of people from both sides.

I think that a lot of times, we here on an enthusiast's site, assume that all riders/drivers are like us. ie. take a great interest in the activity and the tools (in this case, bikes) that are used for that activity. Not sure that is the case with a lot of people. I think we all know people who buy something without really doing much, if any, research. My neighbor recently bought an SUV. He really didn't know much about it other than he like the looks. I think these are the kinds of people that make up a significant portion of the clientele of a dealership and they are taken advantage of. Think of the people who join this site just to ask questions about the bike they just bought that are very common knowledge to us and have been for years. Obviously they have not done much research before buying.

I truly think that people who do a lot of research, and are very knowledgeable about what they are buying and the process of the transactions, are in the minority. Therefore sales people really don't have to have a deep knowledge of their product. They just have to know how to manipulate the deal to maximize profits and know enough about the vehicle to showoff the shiny things like Android Auto, different ambient lighting, etc. If that kind of business plan was not successful, we wouldn't be seeing the grandiose dealerships spring up. Sales people that are both knowledgeable of their product, and can maximize the profit of a deal, are the successful ones. Those that can't, don't last that long and shuffle off to the furniture/mattress/electronic/etc big box stores from whence a lot of them came in the first place.

 

[Sadlsor]

I think that a lot of times, we here on an enthusiast's site, assume that all riders/drivers are like us. ie. take a great interest in the activity and the tools (in this case, bikes) that are used for that activity. Not sure that is the case with a lot of people.

Excellent point, to be sure.
I must occasionally remind myself, that not everyone in the world is just like me.
And the world is indubitably better off for it.

 

[motornut]

When you walk into a dealership watch what happens when you know your stuff, you are in a group that gets passed to someone who isn't in it for the "Fast Sale" , or get a lackluster response from all of them.
I also have seen and been exposed to the asking "floor manager" for acceptance of a offer. They all become floor managers and just stand off a bit and BS to wait you out for more money.

 

[Sadlsor]

What's with the title of this thread? If we (denizens and observers on this website) have been calling them 'Stealers' for years why is there surprise when they live up to that moniker?

Good question.
Just off the top of my head, without overthinking this, I believe the "stealership" moniker came about due to issues with poor, incomplete, or omissions when leaving a bike (any bike) in the shop for service. Wrecked fasteners, improper assembly (brakes, axles, whatever) which began as personal anecdotes and experiences, but then began to become more commonplace. (It's human nature to complain; we see 10 negative reviews for every positive interaction, without empirical data.)
In the beginning we used the term to be funny, but in fact the industry has apparently worked hard to live DOWN to our expectations.
These unpleasant encounters then seemed to pervade the sales / purchase process, or even while "kicking tires." Salespeople deal with "lookie-lou's" all the time, but to ignore them, brush them off or treat them rudely might in fact poison a future sale with that looker, or at least provide material for negative conversations with the looker's riding buddies and buddie-ettes.
Of course, this sequence can be played in reverse as well, and I'm speaking here with intentional non-specifics, although I have had more bad experiences with brick-and-mortars than good ones, in 5 decades of riding.
As a reminder, my primary career and interest is in business development, and as I mentioned previously, the motorsports and the powersports industries have allowed themselves to dig a deep, dark hole in their public image, for all the reasons stated here, and many, many more.
It can be corrected with attention and effort, but surprisingly few appear willing to do so.

 

[RobbieAG]

I think a lot of the dealer's bad behavior came in during the Covid market upheaval. With supply so limited, everything was suddenly in their favor - a seller's market. It doesn't justify their dishonest practices. Last summer I tried to order a truck from a local dealer and he tried to add bogus fees like Nitrogen in the tires and an environmental fee, plus a doc fee totaling over $1500. I walked and went to a dealer in the next town and was able to order it without those fees (except the doc fee). I wouldn't lump them all together; some are worse than others.