How did all the dealerships become so dishonest?

[drrod]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot......
People walk into a dealership thinking they know everything and are expecting the sales people to genuflect just because they have graced the establishment with their presence and get all huffy when they can't buy exactly what they want for a price that loses the dealership money and get it yesterday. Does that happen? Nah...probably not, but if it did, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that the salespeople can readily identify someone like that and not waste much time on them.

Respect for the people, involved in the process goes both ways and in the end, if it does, both are happy which is really the desired outcome and what is best for both parties in the long run.

If you walk into a dealership looking for a fight, don't be surprised if you don't get what you want. Think no further than how you run your business and how you treat your own clients.

All that being said, what gets my goat is the inability to work with another sales person if you don't like the one you initially are dealing with. Many establishments won't allow that. You have to work with your initial contact. Why? I have no idea but it is real.

 

[TPadden]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot......
People walk into a dealership thinking they know everything ..You have to work with your initial contact. Why? I have no idea but it is real.

One word: Internet. People have easy access to sales info including NADA, Kellys, and Cycle trader, hence knowing a lot, if not everything they need to know.

Second point: because sales personel work on commission, some even for 100% of their salary. Competition on the salesfloor, although entertaining, would result in fistfights.

Tom

 

[drrod]

Second point: because sales personel work on commission, some even for 100% of their salary. Competition on the salesfloor, although entertaining, would result in fistfights.

Tom

If that is the business plan of the company and the way their system is trained, it is a very good reason to just avoid it.

 

[TPadden]

If that is the business plan of the company and the way their system is trained, it is a very good reason to just avoid it.

Then you will be avoiding about EVERY motor vehicle dealer, new or used, in the country, since most of vehicle sales personnel are on 20-40% commission on sales profit.

Typically they have a (bonus) quota also increasing the need for dealers to regulate intra dealership competition. Most reputable dealers have a no customer poaching policy.

Tom

 

[red one]

The issue is you need to know what you are willing to pay and be willing to walk away.
My last two vehicle deals included trade ins and I told the dealers what they gave me for 'trade in' didn't really matter.
My price was my price (I already had what I thought my trade in was worth as part of my price).
I laughed at the 'machinations' they went through when I got the final 'settlement' papers.
But at the end of the day I got the 'out the door' price that I wanted and the vehicle I wanted.
I made it very clear if there were any 'add ins' after I got there, I would get in my old vehicle and go back home.
And this was at dealerships 600-700 miles away from where I live.

You are like me as I don't fall in love with any product and use the approach have money will travel. Bought my ST 1100 60 miles from my home. I have bought cars 100 miles away.

 

[SMSW]

Good question.

I understand what you are saying, but in my mind car dealers have always had a, let's be a bit kind here*, diminished reputation. Every book I've ever read (and it has been a few) on buying a used or new car has said over and over dealerships/salesmen cannot be trusted. I remember at least one book said the salesmen would not hesitate to tell their mother she was getting a great deal while jacking the price up. Maybe I've been somewhat alone in my negative view of this industry, but after my bad experience w/ the service dept at my local (highly praised) Honda/BMW dealership it was reinforced in spades.

*Note that this is a knee-jerk reaction. I probably should not be so kind to them.

 

[Sadlsor]

And women typically are treated worse than most men, on the showroom floor, because many sales people think they know less than most men when it comes to machines.
Stereotypes are dangerous, in my view.

 

[gmtech94]

At one of my local dealers their bonus money kicks in after $2400 a month in sales ,that is a lot of oil filters ,tires to make the bonus money . They use all kinds of things to make it look like you are getting a great deal . The local Honda dealers add 10% on list price for all parts which hurts them when looking on line . Just saying be aware eh !

 

[drrod]

Most reputable dealers have a no customer poaching policy.

Scenario - I walk into a dealership for the very first time. I am stuck with whoever's "floor day" it is. No recourse to change. Even if I return days later, I have to deal with this same person. This is not a good business model. I realize that it is the way it is in a lot of cases and it is very much a hindrance if it is the only dealership within a reasonable distance.
True case - 2 Lexus dealers in my city. I walked into one and they had the above policy. I went to the other where they did not. I bought from the second one. They have a system that compensates the initial "contact" person if they do not make the final deal. Good way to have it IMO.

 

[Igofar]

Here’s your sign….
Its owners like this guy who cause the sharks to circle.

 

[ReSTored]

Around here we have had issue with tied sales, in that dealers inform you that you must buy some combination of an extended warranty, paint and fabric protection, tire insurance etc. etc. or no deal. They have been able to get away with this because of 2 - 3 years of COVID related supply chain issues, short supply of popular vehicles and order lead times of 6 - 12 months.

I'm just lucky that I took delivery of my new vehicle early March 2020, just before the lockdowns and I have another 3 - 4 years before I'd be looking for a replacement, so hopefully all will be back to relative normal by then.

If a business tries to screw me then I walk away and will never purchase from them again + I let people know of my experience, that's all I can do.

 

[Sadlsor]

There are just SO many bikes I would like to have, not so unusual for one as old as me (we can't ALL be like Uncle Phil and stay married to one bike for life), so in my mind there is never a new model on a dealer showroom that I just "have to have."
Plus, I meet nicer people when I visit private sellers.
The not-so-nice private sellers, I just don't buy from. Kinda like dealers in that respect, hmm?
It's also normal to spend less dollars for a good used bike, than for a brand new one. (D-uh.)

 

[Andrew Shadow]

If you walk into a dealership looking for a fight, don't be surprised if you don't get what you want.

What many people do not realize is that good salesman are very skilled at picking up on body language, manipulating human nature, etc.. Most people do not negotiate very much of anything very often. Good salesman do it everyday, and get better at it with every instance. The old joke of making a customer feel like they are a master negotiator and that they wore the salesman down and won everything that they wanted from him and they went home happy as a clam while the salesman is laughing all the way to the bank because he took them for their shirt is true. I saw it when I worked at a dealership.

The good salesman were masters of manipulating people to believe whatever they needed them to believe to get the sale. The funny thing however is that the really good salesman rarely did this to a respectful customer. They treated them well and negotiated a fair deal with them, which is why they were the top sellers because they had so much repeat business and so many referrals from satisfied customers. If you went in their with guns blazing with completely unreasonable expectations and treated them with contempt because you know better than they do, that is when they got pissed off at your unreasonable attitude and the way that you were treating them, and that is when the gloves came off and those people usually ended up getting screwed the most and didn't even realize it.

I suspect that much of that has changed. Back then the price of the vehicle and every single option that you wished to add to it was up for negotiation. Based on my most recent experience with a vehicle purchase back in 2018, the actual car price was more or less fixed by the manufacturer leaving little negotiating room. The negotiation was mostly on all of the extraneous services that they try to sell and the price that they sell them for, so there was much less to battle over. I don't how the what has happened over the past few years has changed this.

 

[red one]

What many people do not realize is that good salesman are very skilled at picking up on body language, manipulating human nature, etc.. Most people do not negotiate very much of anything very often. Good salesman do it everyday, and get better at it with every instance. The old joke of making a customer feel like they are a master negotiator and that they wore the salesman down and won everything that they wanted from him and they went home happy as a clam while the salesman is laughing all the way to the bank because he took them for their shirt is true. I saw it when I worked at a dealership.

The good salesman were masters of manipulating people to believe whatever they needed them to believe to get the sale. The funny thing however is that the really good salesman rarely did this to a respectful customer. They treated them well and negotiated a fair deal with them, which is why they were the top sellers because they had so much repeat business and so many referrals from satisfied customers. If you went in their with guns blazing with completely unreasonable expectations and treated them with contempt because you know better than they do, that is when they got pissed off at your unreasonable attitude and the way that you were treating them, and that is when the gloves came off and those people usually ended up getting screwed the most and didn't even realize it.

I suspect that much of that has changed. Back then the price of the vehicle and every single option that you wished to add to it was up for negotiation. Based on my most recent experience with a vehicle purchase back in 2018, the actual car price was more or less fixed by the manufacturer leaving little negotiating room. The negotiation was mostly on all of the extraneous services that they try to sell and the price that they sell them for, so there was much less to battle over. I don't how the what has happened over the past few years has changed this.

The secret is there are deals to be had out there but its going to take some work. What are you willing to do to save 100 500 or 1000 or more dollars? Most people don't want to bother with the hassle and just pay whatever the boss makes them pay. I don't want to incriminate this individual but he has been known to drive across town to save 50 cents

 

[Mophead]

I am firmly in Uncle Phil's camp. I know what I'll pay and if you can meet that price great, if not WALK AWAY. The most important skill you can ever learn is to walk away from anything you don't want to do. Financially you will reap rewards over your lifetime that will appreciate then you can be an old retired fart with too many motorcycles that you have to buy tires for. And are able to buy them.

To follow on Mellow's good dealership post I had similar experience with Dream Machine in Austin, although they did not trailer the bike from Austin to Amarillo. Saw the bike for sale online, called and talked to the salesman, took pictures of my Wing as asked, we came to agreement on a trade value, and I headed down to do the deal (22F when I left at 4:30 am). Got there, they looked over my bike, salesman asks if I want to do the deal, yes let's do it. Then he takes me to the finance guys office, which is usually where the beatdown starts. Finance guy says I guess since this bike still has factory warranty you don't care for any additional warranties. Correct sir, I NEVER buy warranties. OK, here's the cash, sign here please. Should have your title in a couple of weeks. Move my stuff from Wing to new bike and I'm on my way home.

I can deal this way and I'm not trying to let anyone think I stole the bike. They are there to make money and I'm there because of something newer and we came to agreement. I wasn't there an hour and that included a test ride. Easy peasy and no fist fights to get out.

Pretty sure someone else will come along and tell you what scumbags they are so enter at your own risk. If you do enter, be prepared to WALK.

 

[Daboo]

When I bought my XR, I found some of what you're all referring to. I went to the Lynnwood Motoplex (BMW dealer) to try their XR. I got on the bike and could barely get my toes to touch the floor. The salesman could clearly see I was short and did nothing but stand there. I didn't even ask for a test ride and walked out of there.

That was when I was "window shopping", but I was still serious. When my wife told me to buy a new bike, I went to Seattle BMW. They had the suspension preload dropped to make it easier to get on the bike. They also found a Low Seat in the back that they put on the bike. The salesman was a young guy, but knew his business. They let me take the bike out, and since it was a Friday, they even were willing to let me take it for the weekend. They got a sale.

There were some other XRs I found on the Internet. I could've gone used, but decided against it. The price difference wasn't that much, and the distance was inconvenient. There was a dealer in the Bay area that had a new XR for about a thousand less than I paid, but by the time I factored in the trip costs, it would've been about equal. So "negotiation" wasn't a big factor for me. Besides, they have to make a living too.

FWIW, if I need to go to the dealer for anything, I won't be back to Lynnwood Motoplex. It's a few miles further to Seattle BMW, but that whole experience with them soured me on them.

Chris