How long can you really stay alert?

[Sadlsor]

Found on ADVrider, a reminder to some, a warning to others, and a confirmation to the rest.
Talking about safety in general, Canadian back-country gravel roads in specifics... how many of our Northern friends ride these gravel roads? Sounds like some enticing riding, even on STs.
Enjoy...

Stay Alert

 

[Larry Fine]

Our country needs more Lerts!

 

[STFlips]

Not I (at least on purpose)

 

[W0QNX]

How long can you really stay alert

Waiting on the OP to answer before I chime in.

 

[Larry Fine]

Is this thread about riding on gravel or maintaining awareness of one's surroundings?

Regular gravel and campground roads don't bother me. I just relax my grip and let the bike wiggle.

Round rocks on hard-packed dirt, where they "ping" out from under the tires, is a very different story!

Long story here: https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/bike-lifting-after-drop.183226/page-7#post-2446414

 

[scootac]

I enjoy Nick Adam's videos.
Mostly rides an old Guzzi....not just around town either! Across Canada and remote areas.
Very calm demeanor and never appears flustered.
He enjoys the ride, not concerned about how many miles/day or beating Google time.

 

[jodog]

How many 5 hour energies you got?

 

[Upt' North]

Do you mean stay alert or concentrate 100% on the task at hand.
If you mean the latter not long in extreme situations.
I have been fortunate enough to undertake advanced car and motorcycle training in an environment which meant derestricted speed limits didn't have to be observed, so just travel as fast as you consider to be safe, which probably translated to riding/driving from anything from 0 to 150 mph. In these situations which I would say is not that different from enthusiastic riding the maximum time you were allowed to be in control of the vehicle was a one hour stint.
At the end of that hour you would be mentally and physically exhausted.
Riding as I do now I know after several hours my concentration and responses are rubbish. When you think an alert, concentrating rider takes 0.7 of a second to react, just think how long it takes when you're pooped. Stopping for coffee, lifting the visor up, standing on the pegs, it all makes no difference.
It might explain too when someone says there was no time to react, what was there recognition and reaction time, 1 second, 2 seconds, when 30 mph alone equals 44 feet per second (I think, from memory) those feet soon add up.
Upt.

 

[TPadden]

Riding as I do now I know after several hours my concentration and responses are rubbish.
Upt.

I'm pretty much the opposite of everyone else.

I am at my worst for the first 30 minutes to an hour in the saddle, then stay comfortably alert for hours and hours, with as many short breaks as I feel like taking.

Tom

PS Probably because with multiple bikes every time I ride I have to get used to a new bike.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Stopping for coffee, lifting the visor up, standing on the pegs, it all makes no difference.

I saw a TV show where researchers who study fatigue and distraction stated the same thing. They claim that their research reveals that all of the tricks that people employ to stay alert while driving such as opening the window for cold air, blasting the radio, singing along out loud with the radio, etc., do not work. People think that they do because they suddenly feel more awake, but that apparently does not necessarily translate to being more aware and more responsive when something that needs an immediate reaction happens. One analogy that they used is that it is similar to the effect that drinking alcohol has when consumed to try to stay warm. You feel like you are warmer, but your body actually gets colder. Same thing with fatigue. These tricks fool people in to believing that they are mentally sharper, but they are not when tested in a controlled environment. Their conclusion was very simple. If you are tired don't play games, stop driving.

 

[Upt' North]

I saw a TV show where researchers who study fatigue and distraction stated the same thing. They claim that their research reveals that all of the tricks that people employ to stay alert while driving such as opening the window for cold air, blasting the radio, singing along out loud with the radio, etc., do not work. People think that they do because they suddenly feel more awake, but that apparently does not necessarily translate to being more aware and more responsive when something that needs an immediate reaction happens. One analogy that they used is that it is similar to the effect that drinking alcohol has when consumed to try to stay warm. You feel like you are warmer, but your body actually gets colder. Same thing with fatigue. These tricks fool people in to believing that they are mentally sharper, but they are not when tested in a controlled environment. Their conclusion was very simple. If you are tired don't play games, stop driving.

Andrew, I would see many of the actions you mentioned would only distract you from the task at hand, that is riding/driving. Like you say they're just masking the fact you shouldn't be continuing with that task.
Lifting your visor up and singing out loud isn't going to help.
Upt.

 

[Larry Fine]

They claim that their research reveals that all of the tricks that people employ to stay alert while driving such as opening the window for cold air, blasting the radio, singing along out loud with the radio, etc., do not work.

Taking off your shoes.

 

[TPadden]

These tricks fool people in to believing that they are mentally sharper, but they are not when tested in a controlled environment.

A lot like sitting at a keyboard...

Tom

 

[St-Gerard]

Two to three hours at max then I stop and take a Bathroom break .

 

[W0QNX]

How many 5 hour energies you got?

All you could ever need! I'd gladly read about your longest ride story if care to tell us. Get us a several, we're easily entertained.

 

[Sadlsor]

It's true, and I agree that the human animal is ill-equipped and not designed to be vigilant 24/7, and not even entirely within our waking periods.
Still, I will maintain that this lack of "high alert" does not mean that one cannot be safe.
Endurance riders, particularly in the IBA, have an outstanding safety record, when it comes to crashes, injuries and fatalities. No, sorry, I don't have statistics at hand for you, and many more have completed the SS1K, BB, BBG and other assorted distance events as well, the vast majority without incident.
Of course, it's not for everyone, nor should it be, but the key is to know your personal limits and be able to recognize fatigue before you become unsafe.
I posited this question for discussion, and it's been a good one.
Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[St-Gerard]

Fatigue depends alot on the Vehicle you are operating, how noisey it is ,comfortable or not, smooth or vibrating. My 91 T-bird I could drive all day and stay alert, my ford tractor in the hot sun maybe two hours and needed a break.

 

[jodog]

Ok, if you want to have a SERIOUS response, I'll bite. I have an excellent article on fatigue and sleep need that i can share, altho a quick 5 second look didn't find it on my desktop. The thing is that each of us is different including sleep needs. Some people need little sleep. I hate those people. I tend to need a lot of sleep. If I napped all day I'd still need sleep every night. It also depends on what you are used to doing on a bike. If 300 miles is a long day to you then you're going to be tired after 300 miles. If you are very accustomed to doing 1000 miles days then you're not tired at 300, you're just making your first gas stop. Riders in the IBR have been known to ride 36 hour stretches, sleep 4-6 hours, then pull another 36 hour ride. And they do it for 11 days. I ride the IBR and I cannot keep that schedule and I do not consider myself a slouch.

There are many ways to buy yourself more time in the saddle. 5 hour energy drinks will give you a boost. So will caffeine tabs. The act of chewing increases your alertness, so chewing gum or jerky will perk you up some. So will riding on the rumble strips, singing, etc. Each of these ride-extending practices will be more or less effective for each of us as our physical bodies respond to these things differently. IBA riders also know that a stop for a cat-nap generally can buy you a riding hour for each 10 minutes of nap. It can also be effective to stop, clean your face and eyes with a moist towelette, walk around for a minute, etc. Phoning a friend helps too, as someone talking to you helps keep you alert.

The thing is that each of these ride-extenders do not fix the fatigue problem. Lack of sleep can only be cured with sleep. Period. Every ride-extending technique will help for for some amount of time and differently for everyone but you will not be as sharp or as safe as you are when your sleep debt is erased. At some point you have to realize that your safety level has diminished enough that continued riding is a poor decision and then you must sleep.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard the siren's song emanating from every motel I passed. I have slept on benches, in graveyards, and on the bike, among other interesting spots.

As always, YMMV.

Bob

 

[TPadden]

Lack of sleep can only be cured with sleep. Period.

Bob

... but lack of personality can be cured by alcohol.

Tom

 

[St-Gerard]

One of my personal rules of riding is "Am I Fit to Ride" simple yes or no answer.