I think I have a leak

[cjames431]

So your shop now needs to replace the prop,bearings, both seals, and you need to find out what else it damaged….
So obviously your shop does not bother even looking at the factory service manual?
I would be beyond pissed off.
I am so sorry this happened to you.
Wish you were closer.

Me too, on the pissed off and the need to be closer to OCD Enterprises. They did ask me to bring it back in once I get it apart. Really kicking myself for not measuring before installing

 

[Igofar]

You really need to check the cover now to see if the damaged the shelf where the bearings seat.

 

[cjames431]

Here is what I found upon disassembly. Impeller was rubbing on the pump cover and the bearing is no longer flush with the case.
Bearing is 2.43mm
Stem is 21.43 my

 

[970mike]

Here is what I found upon disassembly. Impeller was rubbing on the pump cover and the bearing is no longer flush with the case.
Bearing is 2.43mm
Stem is 21.43 my

Wow you have some major problems there, I guess you will need to reorder the impeller, seals, and bearing and install them correctly.

 

[cjames431]

Wow you have some major problems there, I guess you will need to reorder the impeller, seals, and bearing and install them correctly.

The dealer will only replace the mechanical seal. I had them disassemble it there for inspection since the have the press. I'm not totally happy with that outcome.

 

[Igofar]

The bearing needs to be supported when the impeller gets pressed in or it will start pushing the bearing out as you can see in your pictures.
You can use large dia. PVC pipe under the cover to support it while removing stuff, and use an arbor press (harbor freight) to press the impeller in correctly.
Make a depth gauge (HD FLSTC wheel spacer trimmed down) and turn the entire unit upside down, support the impeller, and press the cover down over the impeller till it touches the depth gauge.
This way the bearing is supported, and the wheel spacer limits the depth and takes the guess work out of it.
I would NOT give that dealership another chance to damage more stuff a second time.
I would make them replace all the parts, including the cover.

 

[Igofar]

The dealer will only replace the mechanical seal. I had them disassemble it there for inspection since the have the press. I'm not totally happy with that outcome.

BS! contact Honda customer care and report the dealer. I would point out that their service people did not follow the service manual, and did not even know there was a proper depth.
Show them the damaged cover from their improper attempt, the pictures you posted, and the damaged done by the dealerships service people.
You can always make a "United Breaks Guitars" youtube video
That guy made a video, it went viral, Taylor gave him a new guitar, and he got United Airlines was forced to pay for everything.
Your Honda shop will NOT want the bad publicity, or let it be known their mechanics are clueless etc.

 

[cjames431]

I was wrong about the stem protrusion. It was only 19mm making it a .25in short of the measurement given in the manual.

 

[cjames431]

Filed complaint with Mother Honda

 

[Igofar]

I was wrong about the stem protrusion. It was only 19mm making it a .25in short of the measurement given in the manual.

Whose/Which measurement did you use?
The printed one in the service manual(s), or the updated "glued in" page?
How did the dealership not know about the proper depth?
I would let the dealership know that you reported this incident to Honda, and see if they start scrambling to fix it before someone visits them

 

[cjames431]

Whose/Which measurement did you use?
The printed one in the service manual(s), or the updated "glued in" page?
How did the dealership not know about the proper depth?
I would let the dealership know that you reported this incident to Honda, and see if they start scrambling to fix it before someone visits them

I don't have that update in my manual so the original measurement. How much difference does 1mm make?
I have no idea how the service tech would not have known nor more importantly, how the **** does he not use the manual.
I will let them know tomorrow.

 

[Igofar]

More importantly, they will NOT be able to just replace the seal because they pushed the bearing part way out, sideloading the bearing, and damaging it!
The service manual very clearly states that the entire unit (bearings/seals/impeller) be replaced as a single unit.
SHOW them this page, or you'll be doing this a third time after they shove the bearing back in forcing it in the opposite direction thus damaging it even more
Their installation damaged your cover (show them the contact damage) they need to replace that too.
***** is wrong with these people

 

[Igofar]

My manual covers up to 2013.
Specification listed is 24mm (0.94").

Does your manual have the glue in updates?

 

[Igofar]

I found a 2013 manual that had the 24 mm depth show, but this manual didn't have any stick in pages (purchased used from forum)
I'm starting to think that all the manual will show that depth because they are not going to re-print anything, which is why they give the supplement pages with the changes?
I did get my hands on two other manual(s) 2003-2006, and 2003-2008, that did have the stick in pages, and they both listed the same thing Mark posted in his post earlier in this thread, of water pump impeller; 21 mm (0.83 in) and indicates to SUPPORT the bearing inner race while positioning etc.
Your dealership should have MANY years of manual(s) or updated MEMOS, and stick in pages for their mechanics.
Have the Owner of this dealership, make the service manager find one, and use it correctly.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Does your manual have the glue in updates?

Larry;

The service manual that I have has an issue date of May 2010. I purchased it directly from Honda in 2013.
It came with an update package of glue in pages. These pages updated it to cover 2003 - 2013.

The water pump impeller/shaft installation is on page 6-21 in this manual. The specification for the shaft protrusion is 24 mm, 0.94". This is not a revision, it is in the original text of the manual. There was no revision to this page included in the update package, which means that this specification was revised prior to the May 2010 manual issue and has remained the same through late 2013.

I did get my hands on two other manual(s) 2003-2006, and 2003-2008, that did have the stick in pages, and they both listed the same thing Mark posted in his post earlier in this thread, of water pump impeller; 21 mm (0.83 in)

The picture that you show in post #47 above was referencing a revision that added a new specification of 21 mm, 0.83", and would be the revision for manuals up to 2008. There was no specification listed for this shaft protrusion previously. This is now out of date. It was revised to 24 mm, .094" sometime before May 2010. This has never been revised and has remained the same through to the revision package released at least as late as 2013 based on what I received. I don't know if it was revised again subsequent to that.

Michael (@CYYJ), your package updated your manual to cover model years 2003 - 2014. Since it is one year newer than mine, is the specification in yours still 24 mm. 0.94"?

This is an example of why I was asking about how the Honda manual revision process works in this post.

 

[cjames431]

Does your manual have the glue in updates?

My manual does have several pages with revisions stickers. I do not remember if I bought it new or used. I would have purchased it in 2014/15 when I purchased the bike. I will have to double check when I'm home but I think my manual states the 24mm depth.
As to the shop I did watch the service manager grab a very tattered copy of the manual on Saturday so he at least knows he should follow it.

 

[Igofar]

The water pump in MY personal ST1300 (07) was pressed in (by me) with the 24 mm depth and has been working fine for over 100,000 miles so far, and has no scrape marks on the inside cover, or strange noises.
I'm thinking that the way they pressed it in, has more to do with the damage done, than the depth that they pressed it in to.
Perhaps they didn't SUPPORT the bearing when they were pressing it in, and that is why they pressed the bearing out (which changed the depth) and why it struck the inside cover.
I still say they may have damaged the bearing/impeller shaft, and those parts should be replaced as well.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I would argue that they owe you a new cover, impeller, bearing, seal and gasket. The damage to the cover and impeller is a result of contact between the two caused by their improperly accomplished repair. The bearing may have been forced out of perpendicular to the shaft and ran that way when you started the engine. There may be no immediate damage, but having run loaded in that orientation may lead to premature bearing failure leaving you holding the bag to repair it down the road. The seal and gasket are consumable items that should not be re-used.
All of this damage was caused by them, so their responsibility to compensate you for the cost of fixing it.

I have never looked in to it, so I have no idea if a pre-assembled water pump and cover is available from Honda. If it is, this would be a better option for you as you would get all new parts and won't have to put any trust in this shop's ability again. It might even be a better option for them this way as it may be cheaper than the total cost of the individual parts, and they won't have to absorb the labour to repair yours again.

 

[cjames431]

The water pump in MY personal ST1300 (07) was pressed in (by me) with the 24 mm depth and has been working fine for over 100,000 miles so far, and has no scrape marks on the inside cover, or strange noises.
I'm thinking that the way they pressed it in, has more to do with the damage done, than the depth that they pressed it in to.
Perhaps they didn't SUPPORT the bearing when they were pressing it in, and that is why they pressed the bearing out (which changed the depth) and why it struck the inside cover.
I still say they may have damaged the bearing/impeller shaft, and those parts should be replaced as well.

I would argue that they owe you a new cover, impeller, bearing, seal and gasket. The damage to the cover and impeller is a result of contact between the two caused by their improperly accomplished repair. The bearing may have been forced out of perpendicular to the shaft and ran that way when you started the engine. There may be no immediate damage, but having run loaded in that orientation may lead to premature bearing failure leaving you holding the bag to repair it down the road. The seal and gasket are consumable items that should not be re-used.
All of this damage was caused by them, so their responsibility to compensate you for the cost of fixing it.

I have never looked in to it, so I have no idea if a pre-assembled water pump and cover is available from Honda. If it is, this would be a better option for you as you would get all new parts and won't have to put any trust in this shop's ability again. It might even be a better option for them this way as it may be cheaper than the total cost of the individual parts, and they won't have to absorb the labour to repair yours again.

I double checked my manual at home and it covers 2003-12 and has 24mm printed with no sticker update for that page. It does have stickers through out and on the cover to increase its coverage.
Also, am in talks with the store owner. He left me a voice mail saying he has a list of parts he wants to order and that he will overnight them as well. I did request replacement of water pump cover and o-ring, and case to case cover gasket, bearing, mechanical and oil seals. The impeller being hardened steel I'm thinking would be difficult to damage.
Mother Honda responded with a "thanks for the complaint, consider your case closed" email.
To be continued.....

 

[Igofar]

I wonder if your email stating "consider your case closed" is because someone at Honda contacted the owner and instructed him to fix everything.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you.