LED upgrade - clear lens & running/indicator led mod??

[ST Gui]

spiderman302 talked about ensuring you get the amber-off-amber on switchbacks for greater conspicuity and not the amber-white-amber bulbs. I didn't know this when I was buying switchback but every set I got was a-o-a and not sold as car or motorcycle specific. So it was the luck of the draw for me. Plus it gives the running light LEDs a chance to rest and compose themselves during the signaling interval. They appreciate the break.

 

[Larry Fine]

spiderman302 talked about ensuring you get the amber-off-amber on switchbacks for greater conspicuity and not the amber-white-amber bulbs.

That defeats the purpose of the clear lenses: to have white running lights.

Otherwise, the only time they would appear white is when the bike is off.

 

[beemerphile]

That defeats the purpose of the clear lenses: to have white running lights.

Otherwise, the only time they would appear white is when the bike is off.

I believe that the Amber-white-amber bulb is the one I was referring to as a two color bulb without switchback electronics. These two bulbs should work the same in an ST, since, as you have enlightened me, the ST turns off the white for you during signaling.

 

[ST Gui]

That defeats the purpose of the clear lenses: to have white running ligh

No it does not. That is the blinking sequence as the discussions was about the white LEDs being off when the light turn signal was flashing as opposed to the white running light being visible when the blinker was in the off portion of the sequence.

So for everybody's edification:

IGN on - bike running or not
Running lights On - white

Turn signal activated
Running lights off
blinker on - amber
blinker cycles off - no white light
blinker cycles on -amber
blinker cycles off - no white light.

Turn signal cancelled
blinker off - no amber
Running lights back on - white

Cliff note version: Amber-off-amber

 

[T_C]

AKA: Type 1 switchback will be white with no turn signal and flash only amber with turn signal. Type 2 the white will always stay on even with turn signal on.

Youtube video link

 

[Larry Fine]

AKA: Type 1 switchback will be white with no turn signal and flash only amber with turn signal. Type 2 the white will always stay on even with turn signal on.

Youtube video link

So, a US Honda will work with either type, while a non-US requires type 1.

I was saying that an amber/amber bulb wastes switching to clear lenses.

But, isn't the white/amber vs amber/amber a separate discussion from the running-lights-off discussion?

 

[T_C]

So, a US Honda will work with either type, while a non-US requires type 1.

I was saying that an amber/amber bulb wastes switching to clear lenses.

But, isn't the white/amber vs amber/amber a separate discussion from the running-lights-off discussion?

Apple and oranges we are talking.

Both Type 1 and 2 are white and amber combos. ( A switchback that is amber/amber is kind of useless, you are not switching anything. Hi/lo brightness is just a standard dual bulb)
Both need the US wiring style of 3 pin sockets.
Clear lenses with amber/amber would still be a different look. Some cars use this, that's why they make NA bulbs (Natural Amber).

Difference in Type 1 and 2:
The white always stays on, all the time the bike is on, even when the amber is going blink blink on type 2. Not very effective if the white is bright.
On type 1, the white gets shut off when the amber is engaged for the blinky job.

(For those of technical interest, this is a good job for a small mosfet and a cap. The cap will hold a charge onto the mosfet (mosfet in series with the white led), shutting off it's flow until the cap drains itself out. You size the cap to hold a charge for about 1 sec.)

 

[T_C]

These two bulbs should work the same in an ST, since, as you have enlightened me, the ST turns off the white for you during signaling.

No, the ST does not, at least not the ST13. Switchback bulbs have very small circuits built into the base that shut off the white when the amber is activated.

 

[beemerphile]

No, the ST does not, at least not the ST13. Switchback bulbs have very small circuits built into the base that shut off the white when the amber is activated.

I would be surprised if the ST13 operates differently, but I have no info on the ST13. After @Larry Fine stated that the turn signal switch blanked the running light circuit when the flasher was on, I checked it on my wiring diagram and physically on my 1999 ST1100 and found him correct. The ST1100 turns the running light out for you when the turn signal is activated and a switchback circuit is not needed. It doesn't hurt anything, you just have two things turning the running light off instead of one.

 

[T_C]

I would be surprised if the ST13 operates differently, but I have no info on the ST13.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure I had some type 2 switchbacks in the front of my ST13 and was very disapointed. Was many years ago...

 

[beemerphile]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure I had some type 2 switchbacks in the front of my ST13 and was very disapointed. Was many years ago...

A look at the wiring diagram, or someone with an unmodified ST13 posting a video of the turn signals in operation would confirm it - does it go bright/dim or bright/off?. I had just assumed that they operated like dual filament signals on cars where the 21W turn signal overpowers the 5W running light, but I was wrong. That would require a switchback circuit to hold the running light off for the turn signal to operate properly.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

someone with an unmodified ST13 posting a video of the turn signals in operation would confirm it

Fist post, first video, R/H light.
Switchback LEDs

 

[ATA]

The switchbacks on my '07 are bright white running/off when amber turn signal activated. All I had to do to convert from the OEM was replace the amber lens with clear and replace the OEM bulb with a switchback bulb. Easy-peasy.

 

[Obo]

The type1 switchbacks are easier to see (with the white off when the amber is flashing) but I have to say they look odd in operation when everything is off for a few seconds at the end.

Here's a type 1 example.

 

[ATA]

The type1 switchbacks are easier to see (with the white off when the amber is flashing) but I have to say they look odd in operation when everything is off for a few seconds at the end.

Here's a type 1 example.

Just like mine. Uuuge improvement!

 

[aSTerix]

The type1 switchbacks are easier to see (with the white off when the amber is flashing) but I have to say they look odd in operation when everything is off for a few seconds at the end.

After watching this what I would like is the white and amber to flash alternatively , wonder if there is a type 3 !!!!

 

[T_C]

After watching this what I would like is the white and amber to flash alternatively , wonder if there is a type 3 !!!!

Yeah, but I think it's called a Code3 and it gets you a ticket.

 

[ST Gui]

I have to say they look odd in operation when everything is off for a few seconds at the end.

Well it's really closer to 1s and IIH- I never see them anyway.

 

[aSTerix]

AKA: Type 1 switchback will be white with no turn signal and flash only amber with turn signal. Type 2 the white will always stay on even with turn signal on.

Youtube video link

I have seen these referred to as Type A and Type B , is there a regulation somewhere that defines all this or did the bulb manufactureres just come up with something arbritrary

Quote: This type A bulb shows white color when parking lights are on and signals amber when turn signals are in use. Alternatively, a type B bulb shows white color when parking lights are on and alternates between amber and white when turn signals are in use. End Quote

 

[beemerphile]

Quote: This type A bulb shows white color when parking lights are on and signals amber when turn signals are in use. Alternatively, a type B bulb shows white color when parking lights are on and alternates between amber and white when turn signals are in use. End Quote

Does it say that it behaves this way regardless of how the socket is wired? There is an "A" and a "B" way of doing that as well. With the US spec ST1100 turn signal switch and socket wiring, for the running light to be white with the turn signal in use would require that the bulb use stored energy to light it, because between amber flashes NEITHER terminal of the bulb has power.