Not your typical oil thread. Rotella T6

[Daniel]

First and foremost, I apologize right up front. I have been riding a long time, and have been around motorcycle forums (ie. bmwmoa, concours.org, klr...etc) and I am very well aware how popular oil threads are.

But......

I went to wally world yesterday and bought 6 qts of M1 5w20 for my F150, and a M1 filter. I started to reach for 4 qts of M1 4T for the ST, and suddenly realized what $$ I was putting out. When did M1 car oil go from $27 to $40? Anyway, I instead bought a gallon of Rotella T6 for the ST which at least managed to save me $20 or so. Still, I walked out $88 poorer, with 10 qts of oil and a filter.

I then went home and did a couple google searches about the rotella. It was definitely the most popular choice among the concours folks, and I have read a ton of endorsements in the way, way too many oil threads I've read over the years.

After reading, I have a couple concerns about the rotella, and in the end have one simple question. My concerns are the couple of forum posts I've read concerning the "new formula," and those couple people who said their clutch started slipping after switching to the T6. 2nd, if you look at Rotella T6 on Amazon, take notice of the photo of the back of the gallon jug. Unless I am missing it, there is no mention of JASO-MA....MA2 or anything like that. That is DEFINITELY different than the gallon I bought yesterday, which DOES have the JASO compliance listed.........odd.

So, to my one very specific question. Is there any reason I shouldn't dump that jug of T6 into my ST1300 that you know of?

Not to offend anyone, but I really don't care why you will only buy Royal Purple or M1. I have used all of them, well maybe not royal purple, but this would be the first time in 40+ years of motorcycle ownership I will be using a non motorcycle specific oil.

My bike is a very clean 2003 that I love very dearly, with 28.5K on the clock. I will be draining 1 year old M1 T4 with less than 3K use.

 

[KCJones]

Is there any reason I shouldn't dump that jug of T6 into my ST1300 that you know of?...

Yes there is: The few folks who have reported clutch-slip problems using it. My perception is that MOST folks report no problems with it. But a few have raised the flag, and so I have to call that out.

My personal POV, having used T6 in several bikes with shared oil (between engine & clutch) is no problem. Examples are my '96 Sporster 1200 and '07 V-Star 1300. Used T6 in both, no issues. But I've seen enough folks report issues that I can't in good conscience say I don't know of any reason for concern.

Personally (for my '91 ST1100) I'm running Honda 10w/40 without problem, and without much concern for the couple extra bucks it costs me to order online.

 

[Uncle Phil]

I run in my three ST1100s with no issues.

 

[dduelin]

You might notice it's no longer carrying the certification for gasoline engine use either. In late 2016 Shell cut the amount of phosphorus in synthetic 5w40 to less than 800 ppm to meet requirements for new on-road diesel engines that use catalytic converters to meet new emission requirements online December 2016. Phosphorus was Rotella's magic bullet and Rotella used to have over 1200 ppm in previous formulations but no longer. I used Rotella in previous formulations that carried API SL and SN certs but won't any longer.

 

[SMSW]

I used T6 in my 1300 for one oli change and noticed no problems whatsoever. This was two years ago. Regarding your JASO label - you might have bought old stock (which begs a new oil thread question, 'How old can oil be and still be more slippery than a banana peel?'). Around here, T6 costs two or three bucks less than Honda's oil (HN4?), but when its on sale as it has been for the last year or so, HN4 at $20/gallon at the dealer beats many brands at Walmart (ok, most of the Walmart oils come in 5 qt jugs).

I'v said it before and will again, no doubt. It is probably more important to change your oil and filter per mfr's instructions than it is to use one name brand oil (or filter) over another.

 

[jettawreck]

I went from T6 to Mobil/Exxon DelVac 1 5w-40 ESP in the motorcycles and cars for a couple reasons (neither based on T6 issues). VW diesel forum oil analysis thru Blackstone Labs were generally showing less wear particles in DelVac 1 and (the big one) is the local Fleet store sells DelVac 1 for $25/gal and Mobil/Exxon rebates $12/gallon making it the least expensive option I can get for a top full synthetic oil I can run in most everything I drive/ride other than the snowmobiles (it will be going in the Switchback Turbo Four Stroke eventually). As good or better than Rotella T6 for less. Does it carry the "rating"? No. Does it matter? Not to me and no clutch slipping.
.02 worth.

 

[Daboo]

Home Depot sells Rotella T6...and has a military discount. So if you're active duty or retired, you can get 10% off.

I've been using Shell Rotella T6 for years now, and had no issues.

Chris

 

[Al st1100]

Its the amount of molly that is the problem. Rotella 15/40 has less than 3ppm... T6 has 68...molybdenum is not recommended for wet clutches . Molly is a slippery lubricant. it does not seem like much but how one uses a clutch and oil could be a contributing factor in the clutch slipping . http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/shellrotellat6.htm

 

[Upt' North]

I'd listen to Al, I think he's onto something.
Upt'North.

 

[Daniel]

Thanks for all the replies.

Actually, I was kind of hoping nobody had any reasons not to use it.

However, like I posted, I have never used non ,motorcycle specific oil in a motorcycle, and after buying the T6 and reading about it, I started having an uneasy feeling about it.

So, after reading yesterday's replies, I started looking, and found walmart.com has Valvoline motorcycle specific 10w40 full synthetic for $6.67/Qt.

I do not want to start a typical oil thread here, that was not my intention for posting that. I just want others to know there is another full synthetic option to M1 4T. I have never seen it on the shelves at the store, but they offer free shipping on any order over $35, so I tacked on a Fram XG7317 filter and my oil change total will cost me $38.03. mY LAST OIL CHANGE WITH m1 and a K&N filter cost me $60 ! I only ride 3K/year or less.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I would suggest keeping an eye on the label if you are a Rotella fan.
Right after reading a thread on oil here, I got two gallons of Rotella T 15/40 at Walmart in September 2015 for my newly acquired ST1100. Clearly marked JASO MA. The T6 they had (5/40 synthetic) was not marked MA or MA2 so I got the T (dino based). But I looked periodically when I was at WalMart. No MA/MA2 on the label of either until I got an ST1300 in October 2017....two full years. On a trip to wallyworld in November, I found T6 on sale for cheap and it was marked JASO MA/MA2...the T was still not..... so I bought several gallons. Changed the oil and filter in both bikes at that point. My concern is the vanishing MA/MA2 cert. I have not been back to either of my local stores recently but I will check the Rotella display whenever I return out of curiosity more than anything else.
Both bikes run fine, clutches feel normal.
I will probably revert to Amsoil, my choice for over 20 years previously, just to simplify life's little decisions.

 

[TourNut]

Use T6 in '07 ST1300 , '91 GoldWing & '05 Shadow Aero - no problems.

 

[caldercay]

Might be a bit dated, but still good reference info for oil and filters

TheLink

 

[caldercay]

Its the amount of molly that is the problem. Rotella 15/40 has less than 3ppm... T6 has 68...molybdenum is not recommended for wet clutches . Molly is a slippery lubricant. it does not seem like much but how one uses a clutch and oil could be a contributing factor in the clutch slipping . http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/shellrotellat6.htm

I may be rwong, but isn't the "moly" in question, "Molybdenum dithiocarbamate" versus "Molybdenum disulfide" in these oil products? It's my understanding that the big oil companies do not use Molybdenum disulfide in their products; and that Molybdenum dithiocarbamate does not affect wet clutches.


Sidenote (this is not referring to Al's comment) just because an oil bottle isn't stamped with JASO M??, doesn't mean it does not conform, correct? I thought you have to submit for testing and certification from JASO to be able to "stamp" that seal on the bottle. I just downloaded the T6 Tech PDF from rotella.com and I read this

OEM SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVALS
5W-40API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; VolvoVDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MANM3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31

 

[dduelin]

I may be rwong, but isn't the "moly" in question, "Molybdenum dithiocarbamate" versus "Molybdenum disulfide" in these oil products? It's my understanding that the big oil companies do not use Molybdenum disulfide in their products; and that Molybdenum dithiocarbamate does not affect wet clutches.


Sidenote (this is not referring to Al's comment) just because an oil bottle isn't stamped with JASO M??, doesn't mean it does not conform, correct? I thought you have to submit for testing and certification from JASO to be able to "stamp" that seal on the bottle. I just downloaded the T6 Tech PDF from rotella.com and I read this

OEM SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVALS
5W-40API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; VolvoVDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MANM3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31

Too bad the API recommendation for gasoline engines is no longer there. C is for diesel applications, S is for gasoline. API SH/SL/SN used to be there but not anymore. The new API CK-4 standard drastically cut the amount of Phosphorus allowed in this oil and this was what was so good for valve train protection in past formulas of Rotella 5w40 and 15w40. It's gone now.

 

[W0QNX]

Well I just checked my last oil change gallon jug. Rotella T6 syn. It was a new mix with no SM SN markings. I'm 2000 miles in and no clutch slippage. I'm not even sure but my last oil change might have been with the new mix non SM SN.

 

[MajorTom]

I've used Rotella T6 in my '04 ST1300 since I bought it, 7 years and ~100,000 km ago and will continue to do so.

 

[drrod]

I am too lazy to hunt for this myself, so I thought I would throw this out to the oil gurus here.....
When they took the phosphorus out of Rotella T6 because of lower allowances, did they also lower it in all the other oils? ie. Is there any oils left that have high phosphorus levels?

I have used Rotella T6 for years in all 3 of my bikes and have not noticed any clutch problems. I admit to not checking the labeling very close so I have no idea when, or if, things have changed here in Canada. I will check a jug next time I am in the store.

 

[W0QNX]

Well I didn't do a LOT of research but the little I did pointed more to the higher level of Moly being the problem.

 

[drrod]

Well I didn't do a LOT of research but the little I did pointed more to the higher level of Moly being the problem.

Yes, I believe that is the case. From what I can gather, that has not changed but I stand to be corrected.