Not your typical oil thread. Rotella T6

[Kevcules]

I'm trying the T6 Synthetic for the first time now. I did hear about the ratings on the jug changing here and I did notice that change on the different viscosity ranges of jugs. The one I got still had the proper ratings.

I am too lazy to hunt for this myself, so I thought I would throw this out to the oil gurus here.....
When they took the phosphorus out of Rotella T6 because of lower allowances, did they also lower it in all the other oils? ie. Is there any oils left that have high phosphorus levels?

I have used Rotella T6 for years in all 3 of my bikes and have not noticed any clutch problems. I admit to not checking the labeling very close so I have no idea when, or if, things have changed here in Canada. I will check a jug next time I am in the store.

 

[dduelin]

I am too lazy to hunt for this myself, so I thought I would throw this out to the oil gurus here.....
When they took the phosphorus out of Rotella T6 because of lower allowances, did they also lower it in all the other oils? ie. Is there any oils left that have high phosphorus levels?

I have used Rotella T6 for years in all 3 of my bikes and have not noticed any clutch problems. I admit to not checking the labeling very close so I have no idea when, or if, things have changed here in Canada. I will check a jug next time I am in the store.

Rotella's claim to fame was it carried much higher levels of phosphorus than most other oils for much longer and Phosphorus (zinc) was really good for flat tappet valve trains found in older cars and many motorcycles even today. Phosphorus produces ash in combustion and ash is deadly for catalytic converters. "Car" oils began losing phosphorus content in the 1990s when API SG was replaced by SH, then SL, SN, now SM. Most API changes since 1993 called for lower limits on ash and oil makers drew it out of most automotive products so modern automotive oils are under 800 PPM. Rotella retained the ash content but it didn't matter as it was sold primarily to diesel engine operators and to the relatively tiny market of motorcycle and older car enthusiasts. Rotella is first and foremost a diesel engine oil and diesels did not need or use catalytic converters to meet emissions while cars have used them since the late 70's. On-road diesels sold after late 2016 now have to meet a low emission requirement of ash and Rotella changed the zinc content accordingly. So long Rotella, you had a good run.

To your question, Mobil's DelVac MX 15w40 and Chevron Delo 400 15w40 still carry gasoline engine certs but don't have JASO MA but are probably OK as they are and never were labeled Energy or Resource Conserving which is a clue the oil contains friction modifiers bad for wet clutches. Moly additives are used in 10w30 and lower viscosities (5w30, 0w20, etc) to reduce friction. 10w40s and higher are never labeled Energy Conserving.

 

[Daniel]

You gentlemen have confirmed what I was afraid of. This is not the same T6 I've been reading about for so long, and for a few more dollars I won't have to worry about using oil I don't completely trust. I am not endorsing the Valvoline I just ordered, I don't really know anything about it. I do know it is specifically engineered for motorcycles, it's full synthetic, it's the correct weight, and it's a reliable brand name oil. I took a photo of the gallon of T6 I bought the other day. I don't believe it's old stock, the bottle is definitely the latest design. I don't know if it will show in the photos, but I also downloaded the T6 photo from Amazon. But in the photo I took, about mid-way there is a full width paragraph with bold lettering at the top of the paragraph. At the end of that paragraph you will see the JASO- MA...MA2 certification. That is not in the gllon amazon posted.

I'm sure I'd be ok using the bottle I have. Because of the very limited research and reading I've done on the subject, I wouldn't consider dumping a a gallon of the T6 amazon has posted .

 

[Mellow]

Rotella's claim to fame was it carried much higher levels of phosphorus than most other oils for much longer and Phosphorus (zinc) was really good for flat tappet valve trains found in older cars and many motorcycles even today. Phosphorus produces ash in combustion and ash is deadly for catalytic converters. "Car" oils began losing phosphorus content in the 1990s when API SG was replaced by SH, then SL, SN, now SM. Most API changes since 1993 called for lower limits on ash and oil makers drew it out of most automotive products so modern automotive oils are under 800 PPM. Rotella retained the ash content but it didn't matter as it was sold primarily to diesel engine operators and to the relatively tiny market of motorcycle and older car enthusiasts. Rotella is first and foremost a diesel engine oil and diesels did not need or use catalytic converters to meet emissions while cars have used them since the late 70's. On-road diesels sold after late 2016 now have to meet a low emission requirement of ash and Rotella changed the zinc content accordingly. So long Rotella, you had a good run.

To your question, Mobil's DelVac MX 15w40 and Chevron Delo 400 15w40 still carry gasoline engine certs but don't have JASO MA but are probably OK as they are and never were labeled Energy or Resource Conserving which is a clue the oil contains friction modifiers bad for wet clutches. Moly additives are used in 10w30 and lower viscosities (5w30, 0w20, etc) to reduce friction. 10w40s and higher are never labeled Energy Conserving.

So, what's your preference moving forward.

 

[drrod]

So, what's your preference moving forward.

https://www.costco.ca/Castrol-Grand-Prix-10W40-for-Motorcycle-12-x-1-L.product.100150666.html

I am thinking this may be an alternative. Rotella T6 is about 2X the price here in Canada, so I could change twice as often and only be out the filter and my time. One of the reasons I use the full synthetic is the longer times between changes which I probably shouldn't be doing anyway.

 

[dwalby]

It says it meets the API SG rating, which is pretty old, but it is a rating that can be used to make your decision. Given the high rate of oil related failures known in the ST world, this is not a decision to be taken lightly.

 

[drrod]

I just went on Castrol's Canadian site and it no longer lists the oil I mentioned. Looks like it was discontinued.

 

[dwalby]

I was able to add it to my cart on the Costco site, get it while you can.

 

[drrod]

There was a recent thread over on AdvRider regarding the recent changes in Rotella oils.
Probably more reading that you want but, from I can gather, the T6 is still OK.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/shell-rotella-t-name-and-formulation-change.1287801/

 

[dduelin]

So, what's your preference moving forward.

Honda GN4 10w40. I've already been using GN4 10w30 in the 700 since 2012.

 

[SMSW]

So, how, exactly, is this not a 'typical' oil thread? Looks just like one to me.

As far as the Phosphorus in T6 goes, if you love Rotella, go get some WP (or maybe RP), put it in a tea bag, and infuse your own oil. Hard to hit 1200ppm on the nose? How about using any old motorcycle oil meeting Honda's specs, changing it regularly, or, heaven forbid, use Honda's HN4. For the record, I started out using HN4, read here how good T-6 was, tried it, then went back to HN4 when the local dealership started selling it for $20/gal. I ride less than Honda's recommended distance between oil changes and feel comfortable changing the oil once a year. I don't even think about oil any more - but find facts like what dduelin tossed out about ash invaluable. Oil filters? Now there's a horse of a different color. Makes sense to use one with a larger area of filter paper, but what is the particle size they pass? Sooooooo much to learn, sooooooo little time. I'm gonna go for a ride.

 

[drrod]

If Hondas were not so darned reliable mechanically, we could spend a lot of time talking about rebuilding/repairing this, that, and the other thing, over the winter. As it is, we are reduced to the simple things like tires, oil, and filters.

 

[saddletramp8511]

Since this is an oil thread I have a question on synthetic vs fossil or mineral oil regarding compatibility...Can you switch back and forth without risk?...I have a 2014 Goldwing that is a clunky shifter....I have owned 4 Goldwings...All were clunky shifters...Recently on a Goldwing forum there was a discussion of this issue and some had the opinion that using fossil or mineral oil helped the clunky shifting so of course my question is can I go from synthetic which this Wing has had since new to dino oil and back again if I want to without risk of clutch problems etc.....Maybe my gone but not forgotten smooth as silk ST1300 spoiled me...Thanks for any input...Bill

 

[Igofar]

Rotella's claim to fame was it carried much higher levels of phosphorus than most other oils for much longer and Phosphorus (zinc) was really good for flat tappet valve trains found in older cars and many motorcycles even today. Phosphorus produces ash in combustion and ash is deadly for catalytic converters. "Car" oils began losing phosphorus content in the 1990s when API SG was replaced by SH, then SL, SN, now SM. Most API changes since 1993 called for lower limits on ash and oil makers drew it out of most automotive products so modern automotive oils are under 800 PPM. Rotella retained the ash content but it didn't matter as it was sold primarily to diesel engine operators and to the relatively tiny market of motorcycle and older car enthusiasts. Rotella is first and foremost a diesel engine oil and diesels did not need or use catalytic converters to meet emissions while cars have used them since the late 70's. On-road diesels sold after late 2016 now have to meet a low emission requirement of ash and Rotella changed the zinc content accordingly. So long Rotella, you had a good run.

To your question, Mobil's DelVac MX 15w40 and Chevron Delo 400 15w40 still carry gasoline engine certs but don't have JASO MA but are probably OK as they are and never were labeled Energy or Resource Conserving which is a clue the oil contains friction modifiers bad for wet clutches. Moly additives are used in 10w30 and lower viscosities (5w30, 0w20, etc) to reduce friction. 10w40s and higher are never labeled Energy Conserving.

FYI, there are some 10w-30 weight oils that are not labeled energy conserving, such as the Delo 10w-30, and possibly Havoline..
Shell's Rotella was NEVER tested JASO MA, it only indicated that it MET the criteria (search the internet). They may have started labeling the containers to get some more folks using it since the goldwing folks have been using 15w-40 weight diesel oil for the past 30 years or more.
Valvoline and Mobil Delvac 1300 still have the SN, SM gasoline ratings.

 

[Igofar]

In actual UOA tests prior, the Honda HN4 tested very low, even the Valvoline 10w-40 motorcycle oil and Castrol 10w-40 4T oil returned much better numbers.
Perhaps this is why Honda Lowered the price, to try and keep selling it

The letters SF, SH, SJ SN, etc. are time periods. They change constantly as things are improved or altered.
The "Motorcycle oils" were always SF/SG/SJ etc.
If you go to your local grocery store and pick up the cheapest 10w-30 or 10w-40 no name brand oil, you will see it still meets ONLY those ratings?
Does that mean the .99 cent a quart oil is the best motorcycle oil around?

 

[SupraSabre]

Looks like a TYPICAL OIL THREAD to me!

 

[Al st1100]

oil breakdown it has moly numbers but does not have the new T6 yet https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/3323837-test-data-on-3-more-diesel-oils-surprising-results.html

 

[Bush]

I have a question on synthetic vs fossil or mineral oil regarding compatibility...Can you switch back and forth without risk?

Short answer - yes.

 

[SMSW]

In actual UOA tests prior, the Honda HN4 tested very low,

Well, if Honda's own tested poorly, and it causes no problems then what do we get with better performing oil? Higher costs and no roi? :bow1:

 

[dwalby]

Well, if Honda's own tested poorly, and it causes no problems then what do we get with better performing oil?

oil threads???