Rotella T6

[ASPC]

After 6K miles using this oil I ordered some more Rotella T6 for my ST1300 and it arrived today. Notice the motorcycle on the label. I doubt that I will use Mobil 1 oil again as the Rotella T6 does just as well and is half the price. I’m very happy with it. There were reports on this forum that this oil was causing clutch problems and it was suggested I try using this oil for I think 3K miles and report back. I have not experienced any clutch problems using Rotella T6. This is the reason for my post. According to the manufacturer only two grades of T6 meet JASO MA/MA2 specifications, those are 5W-40 the oil I am currently using and 15W-40. So it is likely that other grades of this oil could cause clutch problems which is I think why some people have reported clutch problems using T6. For example according to the manufacturer Rotella T6 5W-30 does not meet JASO MA/MA2 specifications, meaning it could very well cause clutch problems. I am aware that 5W-30 is a favorite viscosity on this forum and many other motorcycle forums.

The 5W-40 I am currently using does not have a motorcycle on the label.

Oil I have used in my bike without problems.
Rotella T6 5W-40
Mobil 1 4T 10W-40
Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50.

 

[dwalby]

thanks for posting this info.

 

[red one]

Use what you like. Like what you use

 

[Igofar]

Interesting, shell is at it again with their implied advertising
This add of theirs would imply that its good for motorcycles, but when you call or email shell, they will tell you that they don't recommend it for motorcycles?


I also question the API donut on the bottle lacking the Gasoline rating?
While their wording in print implies that it "meets" these things, the lack of it in the API donut MAY indicate that it was NOT tested/certified, only suggested/implied that it WOULD meet them if tested.
I would only use the 15w40 in the bike, if it were mine.
While folks have used the 5w40 for years (Goldwing folks) they HAVE CHANGED THEIR FORMULA in the past few years, and removed the gasoline rating, so it may not be the same stuff.
I have removed/replaced at least two clutches from late model ST's that started using the new 5w40 and ended up with clutch slip etc.
As far as working good so far, has anyone who made these claims, actually opened up their engines and examined them?
This is a typical example of what using the wrong type/weight of oil does to your clutch plates.

 

[Igofar]

Without hi-jacking this useful post, I will add a couple comments about the 5w40 vs the 15w40 that I have found that some of you may find interesting....
This "test" (not scientific at all) was done on at least three different times, with the same results, draw your own conclusions.
Two 2016 test bikes (New in crate bikes) were used for this test.
One bike was filled with the 5w40 T6, and the other with the 15w40 version, both ridden about 4k miles, and both placed out of service for an oil change.
The oil was drained out of both bikes completely, including the oil filters, and the drain plugs were put back in the bikes, the keys removed, and the bikes sat for 3 weeks.
At the end of 3 weeks, the drain plugs (remember the bikes had no oil in them) were removed again, and the residual oil measured.
The bike with the 15w40 weight oil drained approximately 2-3 ounces of oil, however, the bike with the 5w40 weight oil spilled oil all over the table lift, and we got about 8 ounces or more of oil out of it when the drain plug was removed.
So what does this prove? Maybe nothing, or, maybe the 5 weight fish oil drains off the top end of the motor when it returns to 5 weight oil again, and allows the engine to be started without proper lubrication?
For those folks in the camp of "the thinner oil flows faster through the engine", "I've seen the youtube videos", will say it does not matter because the oil will get back up there when the bike is started faster than the thicker oil, however, they cannot defend that the engines will not have dry start up wear and issues, unless they tear the engines down to examine them etc.
Taking this theory to the next level, on the engines that have been torn down, I've seen more wear on the engines with the lighter weight oil than the standard weight oils recommended.
I've also found that the engines with the 5w40 oil in them were almost dry upon teardown, where as the 15w40 oil engines still had oil lurking around, and the engine appeared to be well lubricated preventing start up damage etc.
These observations may mean absolutely nothing, but I just thought I'd post them here to give some folks things to consider.

 

[rwthomas1]

First two oil changes were T6 5W-40. Then I tried Golden Spectro 10W-40 synthetic motorcycle oil with all the correct ratings. I had to drain that out at 4K as the shift quality had deteriorated to the point of being intolerable. Switched back to T6, but the 15W-40 version. Bought the 15W-40 by accident, thought it was the 5W-40. Bike doesn't care. Shifts fine now. I think I'll just ride.

 

[Erdoc48]

That is a scary looking clutch plate and I assume it’s worn? I’ve used the T6 for at least the past 10 years if not more (in the old days I was using Mobil 1 10-30 Extended)…I had used the 0W-40 in the past when available, now use the 5W-40 as it’s more likely I can get it - so far, no shifting issues. I did read as long as the oil has no molybdenum (? spelling) you should be good as long as it has the JASO MA rating. I’m no oil expert, of course, but I change it at ~ 1 year (maybe as long as 15-18 months) or 4K mile intervals and so far, no issues.

I had looked at the maintenance schedule for the ST and saw the oil change interval is 8K miles (seems a little long to me, especially since it’s the transmission oil as well). Even with the cars, I don’t let the oil go greater than 4-5K miles.

 

[TomH]

I've used the Shell Rotella T6 in both my STs. 137k in the 03 and now 98k in my 05. I've never had any problems in the engine or clutch. Both STs have been trouble free over the last 235k. Knock wood! I try to use the 15w-40 but when not available I use 5w-40

 

[Jay547]

I bought a 2005 Kawasaki Z750S in 2010. It was often hard to downshift from second to first. Google results said to switch to T6. I did and never had the problem again. I sold the bike in 2016 with 82,000+ miles on it and the clutch never missed a beat. After that, I got a 2015 FJ-09 in which I've been running the T6 since the first oil change. Now at 56,000+ miles with no clutch issues. I use 5w40 or 15w40, whichever is available at oil change time.

 

[Igofar]

Yup, we all used it for many years with good results,
But just because it used to work and be good, does not guarantee that it will continue to do so after they changed their formula a couple years back.
Folks could be slowly starting to damage their clutches now because it used to be good.
Call or email She’ll and ask them if they recommend it in motorcycles now or not.
Don’t take my word for it, ask the manufacturer.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

Yup, we all used it for many years with good results,
But just because it used to work and be good, does not guarantee that it will continue to do so after they changed their formula a couple years back.
Folks could be slowly starting to damage their clutches now because it used to be good.
Call or email She’ll and ask them if they recommend it in motorcycles now or not.
Don’t take my word for it, ask the manufacturer.

I think you identified the primary 'concern' with using any product long term or religiously. Accountants, mods to permit expanding their market and unannounced government mandated changes will screw up a birthday cake. And....we'll never notice unless the change is accompanied by a problem.

 

[rwthomas1]

If it states meets the JASO standard, I'll take that at face value. The lack of a "gasoline" rating is likely due to the fact that the ZDDP levels are still high enough that they damage catalytic converters over time. Diesel oils have had ZDDP additive levels reduced in recent years for emissions reasons, but they are still pretty high compared to automotive oils that have none now. The diesel oils are being used by the hotrod and classic car crowd as the ZDDP keeps flat tappet cams and lifters happy and playing well together. And they don't have cats to worry about.

 

[OldMcClelland]

I think Larry is onto something - I'll explain.
I have a 2004 VW Passat V6. Notorious for oil leaks. It's better to ask the rhetorical question as to where it DOESN'T leak...
It is a double overhead cam engine and stores oil above the heads, only to leak out onto exhaust.
I've been using T6 5-40 hoping the Diesel detergent would take the gunk out and the thinner oil would drain faster.
But what Larry postulates seems to explain why I have so much in the valve covers. I'll have to try a 10-30 or 10-40 and see what happens.

 

[bdalameda]

Penrite published a good description of the JASO MA and MA2 oil spec., I have attached this document. The Rotella T6 5w40 is JASO MA and MA2 rated, so it is rated for 4-stroke motorcycle engine applications as that is what the JASO and JASO MA2 rating is for.
All diesel oils in the last few years have been reformulated to work better with catalytic systems. Diesel oils now in general do not have the same level of detergent additives as the older formulations.
I'm not recommending or promoting Rotella T6. I just am adding some information for those that are interested.

 

[bdalameda]

If it states meets the JASO standard, I'll take that at face value. The lack of a "gasoline" rating is likely due to the fact that the ZDDP levels are still high enough that they damage catalytic converters over time. Diesel oils have had ZDDP additive levels reduced in recent years for emissions reasons, but they are still pretty high compared to automotive oils that have none now. The diesel oils are being used by the hotrod and classic car crowd as the ZDDP keeps flat tappet cams and lifters happy and playing well together. And they don't have cats to worry about.

There are some newer additives that protect flat tappet engines better than ZDDP. Some boron based additives are working really well for these applications. Archoil 9100 is being used by a lot of guys running flat tappet engines and they can use more modern oils without ZDDP if they add Archoil 9100. The plus side to using the Archoil is that it keeps the inside of the engine spotless and keeps rings free and reduced piston carbon and varnish. it's great stuff. It's also safe to run in engines with wet clutches.

 

[Erdoc48]

Penrite published a good description of the JASO MA and MA2 oil spec., I have attached this document. The Rotella T6 5w40 is JASO MA and MA2 rated, so it is rated for 4-stroke motorcycle engine applications as that is what the JASO and JASO MA2 rating is for.
All diesel oils in the last few years have been reformulated to work better with catalytic systems. Diesel oils now in general do not have the same level of detergent additives as the older formulations.
I'm not recommending or promoting Rotella T6. I just am adding some information for those that are interested.

Thanks very much for this information- as I indicated in my post, I am no oil expert by any means and this clears up the information quite a bit! Actually, I never knew what JASO MA meant, just that it was a standard of some kind for MC engines. For my Silverwing, I used a Castrol 10W-40 syn blend oil recently (inexpensive at $24 or so for 5 qts at Lowe’s), as it does not share the transmission oil with the engine (has a belt driven CVT) and uses the same viscosity oil in the rear drive of the scooter. Basically, any decent quality 10W-40 oil will work in that engine.

 

[Daboo]

Just curious. The picture below implies that my bike will have the same look on the clutch plates as this one does because I use Rotella T6 oil in it. Am I making a correct assumption? What kind of oil was that owner using if it wasn't Rotella T6?

This is a typical example of what using the wrong type/weight of oil does to your clutch plates.

Or could it possibly be that my clutch plates might actually look okay? Because my bike runs great. My clutch seems to work great as well. In fact, my bike seems to run better at 97,000 miles with Rotella T6 being used, than it did when I bought it.

Chris

 

[Igofar]

After many years of tearing down abused police bikes, and only having to replace clutches once in a great while (the old rotella years) I’ve replaced three clutch packs in the last year or so on new crate bikes, that had low mileage on them, and were ridden by civilians, who didn’t abuse them or ride in the friction zone etc.
And all three of these bikes had one thing in common….
They were all three using the NEW formula T6 in their bikes.
Three bikes in less than a year, compared to two or three bikes in 15 years was enough for me to be cautious.
Use what you want.
I still use diesel or heavy duty engine oil in several of my bikes, I just don’t use any of the new formula, second generation, or several of the special diesel oils you see lately.

 

[GSMetal]

After many years of tearing down abused police bikes, and only having to replace clutches once in a great while (the old rotella years) I’ve replaced three clutch packs in the last year or so on new crate bikes, that had low mileage on them, and were ridden by civilians, who didn’t abuse them or ride in the friction zone etc.
And all three of these bikes had one thing in common….
They were all three using the NEW formula T6 in their bikes.
Three bikes in less than a year, compared to two or three bikes in 15 years was enough for me to be cautious.
Use what you want.
I still use diesel or heavy duty engine oil in several of my bikes, I just don’t use any of the new formula, second generation, or several of the special diesel oils you see lately.

Little confused on your statement of 'don't use the new formula'. How can you tell the difference between the new formula and the old stuff?

Not trying to be a jerk about it, I'm coming up on an oil change and have used traditional 10w-30 for the longest time. If there's something better out there that's cheaper, I'm all for it. Just very confused as to what to get. TIA!

 

[Igofar]

She’ll didn’t warn or state anything on their products, chevron delo 400 used to be great in bikes, but now due to the market starting to push and market the small diesel trucks, they have changed their formulas at least three or four times in the last year or so etc.
I have not tried any of these new versions that were reformulated, so I don’t recommend them.
I have been using valvoline premium blue, then valvoline premium blue one solution, in my bikes with no signs of issues, and valvoline even stated via a phone call, and an email, that there was nothing in these two versions that would cause concern in a wet clutch motorcycle etc.
However, they said they could not comment on the newest version, second generation etc.
Which makes me think they are following shell and chevron etc.
I still use super tech, Mobil delvac 1300, and others that still have the gasoline rating listed in the certification donut.
But I only use the 15w40 versions of these oils due to my findings comparing the two.
You should use what you feel comfortable with, and of course only use a certified motorcycle specific oil only.
Ymmv.