Rotella T6

[Igofar]

Nooe

I'm not sure that is true. This is from the bottle of the T6 15w-40, no API label on cap, specification listed on back.


Nothing like a good oil thread... huh guys?

Nope, that just implies that it would meet those.
Shell never has Certified these oils or there would be a certification number.

 

[Igofar]

I will let the forum member post his results and findings, however, after dealing with clutch issues, replaced the slave cylinder, fluid,etc.
His low mileage bike’s clutch was slipping pretty bad anytime he opened the throttle.
RPM would climb, speed dropped off etc.
After doing the basic troubleshooting, we replaced the CSC, it was pretty nasty, but not enough to cause this bad of an issue.
We talked about oil, and yes, the last two or three oil changes were done with the latest flavor of shell T6 because everyone on the forums said it was the stuff to use.
Last night when the clutch was removed, the metal plates were so black and slippery that it took a wire brush and a drill to clean the crap off of them.
The fiber plates were burnt red, and in between the material it was packed with what looked like varnish and rust!
Everything was cleaned up, replaced, new springs, and back together again, and the oil was changed to valvoline premium blue, and the bike takes off like a scalded cat again.
Was the clutch damaged by the oil changes? We may never know, however, the bike was running great for the guy before he switched over to the Rotella a few changes back.

 

[larryg]

I will let the forum member post his results and findings, however, after dealing with clutch issues, replaced the slave cylinder, fluid,etc.
His low mileage bike’s clutch was slipping pretty bad anytime he opened the throttle.
RPM would climb, speed dropped off etc.
After doing the basic troubleshooting, we replaced the CSC, it was pretty nasty, but not enough to cause this bad of an issue.
We talked about oil, and yes, the last two or three oil changes were done with the latest flavor of shell T6 because everyone on the forums said it was the stuff to use.
Last night when the clutch was removed, the metal plates were so black and slippery that it took a wire brush and a drill to clean the crap off of them.
The fiber plates were burnt red, and in between the material it was packed with what looked like varnish and rust!
Everything was cleaned up, new springs, and back together again, and the oil was changed to valvoline premium blue, and the bike takes off like a scalded cat again.
Was the clutch damaged by the oil changes? We may never know, however, the bike was running great for the guy before he switched over to the Rotella a few changes back.

Larry,
Was this guy using 5w-40 or 15w-40 ?
Asking because you mentioned in a post above that you would use the 15w-40.
Thanks.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I'm not sure that is true. This is from the bottle of the T6 15w-40, no API label on cap, specification listed on back.

It is absolutely true. There is no Shell Rotella oil that currently has JASO MA certification as of September 2023.

The Rotella T6 15W-40 label does include a mention of JASO MA/MA2 under it's SPECIFICATIONS AND APPROVALS.
Is this an approval? Or is it a specification that Shell claims that this oil meets? I suspect that it is intentionally ambiguous so that they don't end up in court defending against a claim that they can not support. Any oil that has been certified as JASO MA and wants to make that claim publicly should also have the JASO authorized and trademarked MA certification label and the unique MA certification number issued by JASO for that specific oil visible on the label. See below for an example of what the label and the certification number looks like.

Whether the difference between an ambiguous claim of meeting the requirements of JASO MA and actually having been certified by JASO that it meets the MA specification is an important distinction or not is for each consumer to decide for themselves. I take no issue with anyone using this or any other oil- to each his own.

My only reason for responding is so that people will be cognizant of the difference between a self proclamation of having met a recognized standard and actually having been certified to meet that standard. The public face of that JASO MA certification program is the JASO certification label and JASO issued certification number appearing on the label.
I see this as one of those knowledge is power things. If we have the knowledge we can make an informed decision on our choice of oils, including choosing an oil that is not JASO MA certified if one so wishes.

 

[ASPC]

Shell claims that only Rotella T6 5w40 and 15w40 meet JASO MA/MA2 requirements. This forum generally recommends 10w30. Rotella T6 10w30 does not meet JASO MA/MA2.

The issue here is members of this forum have been recommending Rotella T6 10w30 without checking to see if it meets JASO MA/MA2. It does not and it will cause clutch failure. That is what this constant argument about Rotella T6 is really about.

That and recommending 10w30 oils that do not even claim to meet JASO T-903 MA as required in the owners manual.

The last time I mentioned that only two grades of Rotella T6 met JASO MA/MA 2 requirements the whole thread was deleted.

 

[ST Gui]

The last time I mentioned that only two grades of Rotella T6 met JASO MA/MA 2 requirements the whole thread was deleted.

Given who He Who Has the Power to Delete is who he is I'd guess any deletion to be coincidental and not related to the information in that mention or there was some other issue - ether unnecessary vitriol or a computer glitch. Or a rift in the space time continuum.

Even though the T-6 is not certified saying it meets the certification criteria could be accurate. Or not. It's not unheard of for a manufacturer to make claims that aren't completely accurate. Does Shell claim it meets or exceeds all three standards mentioned by dduelin? In all the excitement I kinda forgot...

So we can wait and ask again when somebody has put 100K–400K miles on their bike with the newer formulation and report on the engine's condition.

Or maybe they can do a oil analysis after each of a couple oil changes and see what's what. I'd be tempted to send two samples of each change under two different names just to be sure the same results are found. I mention this because several years ago one of the two bigger car mags – Road & Track or Car and Driver – did a test of oil testing labs and got markedly different results for two samples of the same oil.

So what's the best oil for the 1300?

 

[Igofar]

Larry,
Was this guy using 5w-40 or 15w-40 ?
Asking because you mentioned in a post above that you would use the 15w-40.
Thanks.

He was using the new 5w-40 synthetic.

 

[Igofar]

Shell claims that only Rotella T6 5w40 and 15w40 meet JASO MA/MA2 requirements. This forum generally recommends 10w30. Rotella T6 10w30 does not meet JASO MA/MA2.

The issue here is members of this forum have been recommending Rotella T6 10w30 without checking to see if it meets JASO MA/MA2. It does not and it will cause clutch failure. That is what this constant argument about Rotella T6 is really about.

That and recommending 10w30 oils that do not even claim to meet JASO T-903 MA as required in the owners manual.

The last time I mentioned that only two grades of Rotella T6 met JASO MA/MA 2 requirements the whole thread was deleted.

Someone was not paying attention to several of the threads and comments about these issues.
It had nothing to do with the 10w30 versions,
I have personally removed 4 clutch packs on low mileage ST’s, and assisted this 5th one (over the phone) and they all had one thing in common…
Rotella 5w-40 synthetic oil, new version.

 

[Erdoc48]

I read all of this with a lot of interest- is this an issue with just the 1300’s or the 1100’s as well?

 

[Igofar]

The oil is this issue not the bikes.
While I have not worked on 1100’s in a while, they have wet clutches too.

 

[Al st1100]

The oil is this issue not the bikes.
While I have not worked on 1100’s in a while, they have wet clutches too.

I found this but can't seem to find any other info and it Might be related to clutch issues with t6

"Why is there so much moly in a JASO MA oil?
Molybdenum dithiocarbamate doesn't negatively effect a clutch the way Molybdenum disulfide does. "

Another rider contacted shell and they will not release any info on how much moly is in the new T6.

 

[Igofar]

I found this but can't seem to find any other info and it Might be related to clutch issues with t6

"Why is there so much moly in a JASO MA oil?
Molybdenum dithiocarbamate doesn't negatively effect a clutch the way Molybdenum disulfide does. "

Another rider contacted shell and they will not release any info on how much moly is in the new T6.

Damage control my friend.
They use to email any products specs you asked for, but now they refuse.
They’ve gotten themselves in some legal issues over the years with the “if we did certify it, it would meet the requirements etc”.
Their advertising is worse than Budweiser now.
They show motorcyclists riding through the desert, next to a picture of the 5w40 oil, SUGGESTING it would work, but when you contact them, they strongly suggest that they do not recommend that oil for motorcycles or gasoline engines anymore.
They rely on folks like the ones in this thread, who copy and paste their advertisements to keep promoting and pushing their products.

 

[W0QNX]

Any oil that has been certified as JASO MA and wants to make that claim publicly should also have the JASO authorized and trademarked MA certification label and the unique MA certification number issued by JASO for that specific oil visible on the label. See below for an example of what the label and the certification number looks like.

The oil also says "meets API service ck-4 cj-4 ci-4 plus ci-4 ch-4 sn" and on and on.....19 others?

But there are no fancy pictures showing all those "certs" "visible on the label". So no go in my $250,000 Kenworth truck either (if I had one).

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

The oil also says "meets API service ck-4 cj-4 ci-4 plus ci-4 ch-4 sn" and on and on.....19 others?

But there are no fancy pictures showing all those "certs" "visible on the label". So no go in my $250,000 Kenworth truck either (if I had one).

Just thinking out loud here.

Oh, but there is.
It is right there on the back of the label inside the API trademarked donut exactly where it is supposed to be. I will admit that you are correct that it isn't fancy.

It has been certified by API to meet the CK-4 SAE 15W40 standard. The API label works in the same general way that the JASO label works in that it is owned and controlled by API. What appears outside of the API donut is mostly marketing. Stating that it also meets CJ-4, CI-4, etc., is just filler that sounds good but has no value in the same way that stating a gasoline rated SN oil meets the requirements of SM, SL, etc.. There are exceptions, but in general the ratings are backward compatible only. As such, they are stating nothing but the obvious. It does looks impressive having all those numbers on the label to impress people with, which is probably the biggest reason for them being there.

Another note since you mentioned it, there is no SN rating in the API donut for this oil. Even if Shell claims that it meets the SN rating, which is a gasoline engine oil rating, API doesn't agree and certifies it otherwise. From what I understand, Shell no longer claims gasoline engine rating for this oil since the formulation changed. I don't know about that because I haven't been following it.

So, if you did have a $250,000 Kenworth, and Kenworth called for an API SERVICE CK-4 SAE 15W40 oil, and you cared about getting an oil that was certified to actually be that, your good to go.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

I found this but can't seem to find any other info and it Might be related to clutch issues with t6

"Why is there so much moly in a JASO MA oil?
Molybdenum dithiocarbamate doesn't negatively effect a clutch the way Molybdenum disulfide does. "

Another rider contacted shell and they will not release any info on how much moly is in the new T6.

That usually indicates a potential suit risk. That wouldn't be a concern unless the problem is likely real.
That's always true until you consider suit-happy lawyers and jurors more likely to find based on 'feelings' rather than fact.

 

[ASPC]

Shell Tech Says We Can Use Rotella T6 | Cleaning, Oil, Maint.

I emailed them and asked if we can use the grades of Rotella T6 5w40 and 15w40 which they claim meets JASO MA/MA2, and they said yes it is safe to use in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. I trust this far more than unverified claims of clutch failure made on an internet forum. Especially as I and...

www.st-owners.com

 

[ASPC]

Look up the amount of moly in Mobil 1 motorcycle oil and other motorcycle oil. It is generally very high. There are different types of moly.

 

[W0QNX]

I just changed my 390,010 mile ST1300 oil a couple weeks ago. Anyone care to guess what oil has been run through my bike for the last 389,000 miles?

I used to do QA certifications and I know how much of a joke you can buy with some certification dollars . I’m going to say that if the label says it will meet JASO then it probably will.

As far as new vs old formulations 60,000 miles of new formula T6 has been used in the last 2 years

And the original clutch, gears, water pump, about everything is still in the bike.

Later, I learned arguing about Rotella T6 oil years ago is futile. No offense to anyone else’s opinions. Run what you like but there is no reason to keep pointing out there is no fancy paid for cert on the bottle.

Truth be known, a lot folks here and on other forums still use T6 oil. Y’all keep on doing what your “certified” lawyer advises.

 

[Al st1100]

Sxxt...I'm out of popcorn

 

[Crazygaucho]

just used on my 04 ST for the first time , been using this oil ( 15w/40) on all my bikes for years, never had a problem as long as they keep the Jaso and M1 rating I’m ok with it , once I’ve tried the Motul version on my Yamaha royal star, didn’t notice any difference and went back to the rotella T6 ….