Rotella T6

[mortenk]

I'm switching to T6 next time. Where else do you get to only do oil changes once very 15 years or 500,000 miles?

 

[W0QNX]

I'm switching to T6 next time. Where else do you get to only do oil changes once very 15 years or 500,000 miles?

Do you have a Kenworth by chance?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

...... but there is no reason to keep pointing out there is no fancy paid for cert on the bottle.

The reason that I write the below is because when I read your post it struck me that as part of one discussion there are really two debates going on at the same time. One is whether or not this a good choice of oils for our purposes, and the other is whether or not this is a JASO MA certified oil. It occurred to me that maybe we would be better served if we looked at these as two separate issues.
Just my take on it, for what it is worth.

I'm not aware that you stated that this oil was certified, so this is not directed to you personally. In terms of the broader discussion, I think that we would be better served with the opposite- there really is no reason to keep stating that it is certified when it is known that it is not.

Whether Rotella T6 is or isn't a good choice of oils for a wet clutch motorcycle is a futile debate as we all know. I have run Rotella T6 in a couple of my motorcycles and none of them blew up. That means nothing to someone who thinks that it is a bad choice, and it is doubtful that it will change their mind. I prefer to quote what standard of oil that Honda states should be used so that people will have that information as a starting point. From there they will do what they will do and that is fine, their choice.

The other issue that is separate from how well an oil does or does not perform is whether or not it is a JASO MA certified oil. Some people don't care, and that is perfectly fine. However, there are those for whom having this certification matters greatly, and I see no reason why this isn't just as perfectly fine.

I also see no reason why anyone would take issue with someone like yourself recommending this oil if you feel that it is worthy of your recommendation. You certainly have the miles and the experience behind you to base it on. At the same time, whenever it is stated that an oil is JASO MA certified when it clearly is not strikes me as disingenuous and unfair to someone who is looking specifically for that criteria in an oil. While I will usually avoid expressing an opinion on a particular oil, I have highlighted this discrepancy in the past but not as an indictment of the oil in question, only for the benefit of accuracy.

 

[Igofar]

Not up to typing at the moment, but just wanted to make a comment.
For years we’ve used HDEO’s that were not certified, and they did nothing to harm our bikes etc.
I don’t care in the least that many of these oils are not certified, I will continue to use them etc.
The only thing I’m concerned with is that this one brand has changed formulas, removed the gasoline rating, and I’ve seen several recent failures on our bikes when it’s used.
That was my only point.

 

[ASPC]

Shell Rotella T6 is certified for API service catagory SN which is for use in 2020 and older gasoline automotive engines. And the photos on the first post of this thread where taken by me, of the container of oil that I purchased and used in my bike. The ST1300 owners manual recommends API SG which is obsolete.

 

[ASPC]

I never said SP. Read the post again. Rotella T6 is rated SN. As it says on the container.

The information I provided is from API.ORG

Oil Categories

The American Petroleum Institute (API) is the only national trade association that represents all aspects of America’s oil and natural gas industry. Our more than 600 corporate members, from the largest major oil company to the smallest of independents, come from all segments of the industry.

www.api.org

 

[ASPC]

Shell Rotella T6 15w40. I took the photo.

 

[Igofar]

No need, I think I'll just block your posts.

 

[SMSW]

This thread started about cheaper oil. How much are you guys paying? I've been using Honda's GN4, it used to be $20/gallon, but in the last few years I've done several things to the bike at oil change time and did not separate out the oil cost. I suspect it is now around $30/gal at my local dealer (where it was cheaper than anywhere else). Mobil 1 10/30 is $27/5 qts at Walmart (without checking its certifications - I quote the price only as a benchmark for oil.)

So, how much is @Igofar's choice, and how much is the optional Rotella?

 

[ASPC]

Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution 15w40 is API SP, resource conserving. It does not claim to meet JASO MA/MA2 which with an API SP rating it cannot do. It’s interesting how Rotella T6 is being accused of all the things wrong with the Valvoline for motorcycle use. Rotella T6 is API rated only SN not SP because it is not resource conserving in the grades which meet JASO MA/MA2 requirements. Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution will cause clutch failure because it is API SP, resource conserving oil and should not be used with a wet clutch, hence no JASO MA/MA2 rating. Unless or course, API SP does not mean resource conserving at all.

 

[OldMcClelland]

Now I’m getting confused…
I put the Valvoline premium blue in, so I don’t have to worry about the clutch. I really don’t want the down time on the bike.
I’m not trying to stir the pot.

 

[Dale_I]

Now I’m getting confused…
I put the Valvoline premium blue in, so I don’t have to worry about the clutch. I really don’t want the down time on the bike.
I’m not trying to stir the pot.

No worries.... and this is why oil threads get poor reputations. They will inevitably reduce themselves to personal opinion.

I've been in and around the motorsport industry my whole life. My 2 cents, any company would have a hard time avoiding legal action if they state that the product meets the requirement and then lists JASO MA/MA2 specifically and it doesn't meet it. It is just too easy to not specifically state it, and they don't on other formulas.

The facts as I see them, T6 5w-40 is clearly a different formula than the 15w-40, and Rotella even compares the two on the back of the bottle showing some differences. The 15w-40 shows meeting the JASO rating as does the 5w-40. Most of the 15w40 are having better experiences than the 5w40. The Valvoline Premium Blue 15w-40 is not stated to meet JASO requirements, but some have had good luck with that.

As part of my work I participated in an oil sample test of quite a few oils, but this was NOT motorcycle related and (without looking them up) many of them would not be good choices for a wet clutch. Surprisingly, the Walmart house brand of SuperTech tested as one of the best, if not the best, out of all of the name brands (there were something like 25 or 30 total). However, looking at the current available SuperTech options, none of them state meeting JASO standards.

I think Igofar's reputation speaks for itself. If his opinion couldn't be considered as an "expert" opinion, I'm not sure who would else would qualify. He would also have the access to a large data pool of information just on shear volume alone.

Back to you @OldMcClelland, it's very easy to get information overload. As a person with an engineering mind, I like to stay within parameters that can be defined and measured, and the rating system works for me. I look for the rating. I'm currently riding an FJR, so what I'm using isn't probably pertinent.

If you are really worried about it, NAPA has some Valvoline that says right on it... Motorcycle Oil, Excellent for Wet Clutches, Full Synthetic, JASO rated. ORielly's has Castrol and Lucas brands. Advanced Autoparts has Valvoline and Castrol. These should be the no-brainer pick that you wouldn't have to worry about.

 

[ASPC]

A new container of Rotella T6 5w40. Also claims to meet JASO MA/MA2 requirements. Confirming what I was told by Shell. They say it can be used safely in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. I have it in writing. Both 5w40 and 15w40. Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution makes no such claims. These are facts, not opinions. I took the photo today.

 

[Larry Fine]

A new container of Rotella T6 5w40. Also claims to meet JASO MA/MA2 requirements. Confirming what I was told by Shell. They say it can be used safely in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. I have it in writing. Both 5w40 and 15w40. Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution makes no such claims. These are facts, not opinions. I took the photo today.

Is there a difference between "certified" and "meets" the requirements?

Years ago, there was home-theater equipment that had "THX" on it which passed specific testing, but there was equipment that could have passed had the manufacturers opted to pay the costs, but didn't.

 

[ASPC]

Why is this simple fact about Rotella so hard for some of your guys to accept?

Do you really think that Shell would put that on their containers and supply the same information in writing if it wasn't true knowing they could get sued?

What is this really about?

It seems like some sort of sensational subject but it's just a simple fact about a particular oil. Why the outrage?

W0QNX has almost 400,000 miles on this oil using 5w40 and 15w40 and has had zero clutch problems. 60,000 miles on what is called the new formula with zero clutch problems, all on the same bike. Do you think he is lying?

 

[Dale_I]

A new container of Rotella T6 5w40. Also claims to meet JASO MA/MA2 requirements. Confirming what I was told by Shell. They say it can be used safely in a motorcycle with a wet clutch. I have it in writing. Both 5w40 and 15w40. Valvoline Premium Blue One Solution makes no such claims. These are facts, not opinions. I took the photo today.

I stand (sit) corrected and will append the above post.

 

[Dale_I]

Is there a difference between "certified" and "meets" the requirements?

Years ago, there was home-theater equipment that had "THX" on it which passed specific testing, but there was equipment that could have passed had the manufacturers opted to pay the costs, but didn't.

Yes, and payment for the certification testing is the difference. However, stating that the certification processes you have obtained encompasses the minimum requirement of another certification will allow you to state that you meet that certification as well.

 

[Larry Fine]

My question is: Does stating "Meets the performance requirements of: . . . " mean they have been approved as meeting the requirements, or just claiming that they are capable of meeting them?

 

[core-aggie]

or just claiming that they are capable of meeting them?

^^^^ that.
Otherwise they'd have the official sticker

(geez, did I reply to an oil thread?! shame on me!)

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Shell Rotella T6 15w40. I took the photo.

I have a question that you may have come across the answer for since you have been looking in to this recently. I haven't looked at oil service classifications and labeling standards/requirements in a few years, so I don't know what may have changed.

When I looked in to this a few years back, I could not understand how Shell could claim an API SN service rating while at the same time claim compliance to the requirements of JASO MA. Right out of the gate these two claims seemed to be in conflict with each other. One of the requirements of being JASO MA rated was that the oil must have an API rating between SG and SM. There are technical reasons for this having to do with the additives that were introduced in all oils subsequent to SM. These additives disqualified them from meeting the requirements of JASO MA. As such, any oil subsequent to API SM would not even be accepted for JASO MA testing let alone meet the requirements and get certified.

This oil does not have API SN certification, just as it does not have JASO MA certification. These are both claims made by Shell. Ignoring the issue of certification, what didn't make sense to me at the time was that if it was an API SN oil it simply could not possibly have met the requirements of JASO MA. If it was a JASO MA oil, it simply could not possibly have met the requirements of API SN. These two ratings had requirements that were in conflict with each other according to both of their respective certifying authorities. Either this oil did not really meet the requirements of API SN, or it did not really meet the requirements of JASO MA, because it could not do both at the same time.

I can't see how what an API rating SN represents could have changed, API would move to another rating if there was a change. I don't see how the requirements of JASO MA could have changed either. This is still the requirement for all of the older wet clutch motorcycles around, so it still has to meet those criteria.

Claiming compliance to both of these ratings for the same oil didn't seem possible at the time, and I was wondering what might have changed.