Sourcing a part (SMC) and not having to pay my liver..!!

[Sadlsor]

Here's the part. Yes mine is chewed up. There's one on the other side too. Fibrous, yes. I too couldn't find it in the fische diagrams.

Congrats for deciphering my cryptic post -- that is exactly what I attempted to describe. I wish it were a standalone part that we could replace.
I'm not sure that it is replaceable, but mine hasn't been apart in a while.
The more it's disassembled, the more it wears.

 

[diferg]

Look At you! @The Dark Shadow . You are already becoming more mechanically competent. The hardest part of mechanics is to understand the problem, and you are clearly showing that understanding.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Congrats for deciphering my cryptic post -- that is exactly what I attempted to describe. I wish it were a standalone part that we could replace.
I'm not sure that it is replaceable, but mine hasn't been apart in a while.
The more it's disassembled, the more it wears.

If you buy a new fork lower, it comes with a new fibre washer. This is the only way to get a new one as far as I know.
All the more reason to clean and lubricate the pivot when servicing the brakes. The easier that everything moves the less damage there will be.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

If you buy a new fork lower, it comes with a new fibre washer. This is the only way to get a new one as far as I know.
All the more reason to clean and lubricate the pivot when servicing the brakes. The easier that everything moves the less damage there will be.

I wonder what sort of grease/gel would help keep this part in good condition longer...

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I just give it a swipe of the same water proof wheel bearing grease that I use on the needle bearing.

 

[Sadlsor]

If you buy a new fork lower, it comes with a new fibre washer. This is the only way to get a new one as far as I know.
All the more reason to clean and lubricate the pivot when servicing the brakes. The easier that everything moves the less damage there will be.

Agreed.
Interesting... I haven't seen any posts that spring to mind, of riders replacing lower fork legs.

 

[STRider]

Agreed.
Interesting... I haven't seen any posts that spring to mind, of riders replacing lower fork legs.

Dear gawd no!

Next we'll be replacing clutch levers to fix shifting issues. Oh, wait...

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Updates with Observations:

- I took the INNER back brake pad (ie: closest to the wheel) out. Measured it... It is the ECB pad with about 850 to 1000km (2.5 weeks) riding on it. It is 8.9mm thick (total) whereas the new honda pad is 10.7mm thick total. I replaced the ECB pad, I opened the rear bleeders ("cracked" them) just slightly. When I spun the wheel, it was loosest it EVERY was!!! It spun freely, with no binding. However, I can tell the rotor has a slight slight warp to it. (I don't think it is extreme or dangerous, and the rotor has plenty of meat left.)
- After I pumped the REAR BRAKE PEDAL ONLY a few times then spun the wheel, it was more resistant (though still not as bad as in the past). After I moved the caliper body vigorously with 2 hands, the wheel spun freely again.
- When I cracked the bleeders, the fluid filled up to the tops of the bleeder nozzles, and the rear-most bleeder overflowed a teeny tidbit from the nozzle top edge, but no real "drip". So, this released a tid-bit of pressure from the inside, and it seems likely that no air got into the system via the bleeders.

This seems logical to me that there's an issue with the rear caliper body/mounting/alignment. There may indeed be (or maybe not) an issue with the SMC ALSO, but am I wrong in thinking there's something independently wrong with the back caliper...??

Cheers!

 

[MidLife]

I "cracked" the bleeders open ..... this released a tid-bit of pressure.

When I spun the wheel, it was loosest it EVER was!!!

There may indeed be (or maybe not) an issue with the SMC ......

As you say, maybe not!

You did verify there is no free play at the SMC, right? Indicating the SMC piston is moving all the way back. Good.

And you can push the pads back, right? Indicating the equalizing port is not clogged. Good.

The bit of pressure released through the bleeders could just be an indication there is still some air in the lines (acting like a small pressure accumulator, with just not enough pressure to push the fluid all the way back to the reservoir.

..... the fluid filled up to the tops of the bleeder nozzles, and the rear-most bleeder overflowed a teeny tidbit from the nozzle top edge.....

Rear most is from the SMC via the PCV, a bit more fluid out of this bleeder might mean a bit more air left in this (longer and convoluted) line, not surprising.

So you might be in for one (or more!) round of bleeding, which, as you noted, some said may help.

Note that if you are happy with how the front feels, there is no need to bleed it again if you are re-bleeding to try to chase air out of the rear (skip the first two steps of the overall bleed procedure).

@jfheath can do even better, he can tell by the feel of the brakes which specific line needs to be bled, without re-bleeding the whole rear system. You are progressing so fast on this system that maybe you'll soon get to his level and tell us how it's done.

You may want to ride it a bit more before chasing the air out of the rear system (meaning all lines linked to the rear reservoir}.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

As you say, maybe not!

You did verify there is no free play at the SMC, right? Indicating the SMC piston is moving all the way back. Good.

And you can push the pads back, right? Indicating the equalizing port is not clogged. Good.

The bit of pressure released through the bleeders could just be an indication there is still some air in the lines (acting like a small pressure accumulator, with just not enough pressure to push the fluid all the way back to the reservoir.




Rear most is from the SMC via the PCV, a bit more fluid out of this bleeder might mean a bit more air left in this (longer and convoluted) line, not surprising.

So you might be in for one (or more!) round of bleeding, which, as you noted, some said may help.

Note that if you are happy with how the front feels, there is no need to bleed it again if you are re-bleeding to try to chase air out of the rear (skip the first two steps of the overall bleed procedure).

@jfheath can do even better, he can tell by the feel of the brakes which specific line needs to be bled, without re-bleeding the whole rear system. You are progressing so fast on this system that maybe you'll soon get to his level and tell us how it's done.

You may want to ride it a bit more before chasing the air out of the rear system (meaning all lines linked to the rear reservoir}.

I checked the "return" motion of the SMC several times, and by my observations it seems to return to proper rest position.

The pads, however, don't push away easily from the rotor. But when I pulled and re-fit the inner pad, that's when the wheel would spin freely. Noting jfheath's point about the mini clips on the inner-pad side of the caliper spring (hope my terminology is correct), I wonder if the spring is fit in reverse, or if the clips are bent out of shape somehow. I'm not quite to the point of removing the whole caliper on my own... Maybe in another week or so... lol I got that new Stanley socket set. It's a pretty nice kit, and has sizes up to 22mm and 7/8 inches. The wheel nuts are bigger than 22mm, but I'm not sure what size.

Questions:

If I remove the caliper body to try to flip it and access/service the retainer clip, "pad spring", and the sliders to check and service them, are there any other things I can check and service...?? There was something mentioned about one hole that gets marred from normal that affects the caliper position when installed.

The muffler "hose clamps"... What sort of anti-seize can be used to help loosen the bolts...?? One side had a particularly tight bolt/nut when Garrie loosened them to access the rear axle.

 

[Catmandu2]

I don't know if the condition of your caliper pistons has been considered,, or not. Perhaps it has been, at an earlier stage of this service. After I changed my '04's smc, it was still dragging at the rear rotor. After I polished the rear pistons to a gleaming finish, they started to retract better,, until I lost all the rear brake drag. I did this in the bike,,, using conventional brushes and brake fluid. But then I finished it off with Auto-sol metal polishing paste, and a flat hockey skate lace. It's tedious work,,, but can be done carefully. The pictures and method exist somewhere on this site. It's standard practice now, on every pad change, for me. It was necessary because the PO's allowed dealers too just cram the dirty pistons in past the seals,,, and the resulting contamination prevented easiest piston retraction. A complete caliper rebuild, with new seals and pistons would accomplish the same results. But my approach was faster and cheaper,, and worked great,,, finally !! Just throwing this experience out there,,, good luck,, CAt'

 

[The Dark Shadow]

I don't know if the condition of your caliper pistons has been considered,, or not. Perhaps it has been, at an earlier stage of this service. After I changed my '04's smc, it was still dragging at the rear rotor. After I polished the rear pistons to a gleaming finish, they started to retract better,, until I lost all the rear brake drag. I did this in the bike,,, using conventional brushes and brake fluid. But then I finished it off with Auto-sol metal polishing paste, and a flat hockey skate lace. It's tedious work,,, but can be done carefully. The pictures and method exist somewhere on this site. It's standard practice now, on every pad change, for me. It was necessary because the PO's allowed dealers too just cram the dirty pistons in past the seals,,, and the resulting contamination prevented easiest piston retraction. A complete caliper rebuild, with new seals and pistons would accomplish the same results. But my approach was faster and cheaper,, and worked great,,, finally !! Just throwing this experience out there,,, good luck,, CAt'

Thanks for that! I watched Garrie clean the pistons. The middle had a "contamination" line that he couldn't quite fully remove with flexible abrasives. I was thinking as I was watching that I would have liked to have taken a wooden or plastic scraper (or, *shock*, even a metal scraper) to it. Once I'm in the realm of micro-tolerance and scraping, I'm in my element. I'll see what I can do to check that out again if I can get someone to hold my hand as I remove the rear caliper...

 

[The Dark Shadow]

I spoke with Igofar yesterday on the courtesy phone. Very helpful. I did some rear brake caliper/pad work today.

Sliders seem sticky. Maybe over-greased causing a vacuum seal, impeding movement.

Can I remove the sliders only, or do I have to remove the whole caliper from its bracket first...?

If I can remove the sliders only, how does one get to that...?? Hmmm... I'll check out the service manual, but if anyone can give a simplified version that'd be great.

Thanks.

 

[Igofar]

DO NOT remove the slider pins from the calipers!
This is a sure way to damage a very expensive rear brake caliper, when you try to replace them, and cross thread them!
Even if you don't cross thread them (damage them) if you over tighten them, the steel pin could sink into the soft aluminum, causing the pin to sit crooked, thus damaging the caliper.
The only way you should separate those two pieces (caliper/bracket) is to remove the axle, lift the entire assembly up, and pull them apart with hand pressure.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

DO NOT remove the slider pins from the calipers!
This is a sure way to damage a very expensive rear brake caliper, when you try to replace them, and cross thread them!
Even if you don't cross thread them (damage them) if you over tighten them, the steel pin could sink into the soft aluminum, causing the pin to sit crooked, thus damaging the caliper.
The only way you should separate those two pieces (caliper/bracket) is to remove the axle, lift the entire assembly up, and pull them apart with hand pressure.

EXCELLENT NEWS TO REPORT!!!

So, i put in the Honda brake pads 2 days ago. The back rotor was still getting hot.

Yesterday I removed the caliper bracket and cleaned the slider pins and their rubber boots which were filled with gel lubricant causing vacuum and resisting sliding movement. After cleaning the gel from the sliders and reinstalling the caliper, it slid well from side to side without undue force.

Yesterday's test drive... outbound showed the rear rotor still warm but return trip rotor was fine.

Today's test drive outbound, rear rotor cool as a cucumber, and return trip also cool as a cucumber!!

Hurrah!!

Many thanks to Igofar for his invaluable help!!

 

[Larry Fine]

Very cool!

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Here's a few pictures.

First, 2x new SMC units ordered from Japan. Arrived quickly. Two plus shipping is less than one if I buy from my local Honda Stealer.

Second is a photo of EBC pads removed from my back brake after only 2 to 3 weeks usage. The sliders were bogged down with gel lubricant and were resisting motion due to excessive suction.

 

[SMSW]

Thanks for that! I watched Garrie clean the pistons. The middle had a "contamination" line that he couldn't quite fully remove with flexible abrasives.

I have used a ribbon of crocus cloth (essentially iron oxide on a fabric backing used to polish) on fork sliders and caliper pistons. It only will work on very very small scratches or baked on dirt. This will be a tad more aggressive than a shoelace and brake fluid, tho I have added brake juice to the crocus cloth to lube it.

Glad we are making you into a first class mechanic. Wouldn't happen without native ability, tho.

 

[Obo]

How much did customs end up dinging you on top of purchase price / exchange rate?

 

[DavidR8]

How much did customs end up dinging you on top of purchase price / exchange rate?

My SMC should arrive today and I have no duties to pay.