The end is nigh......

OP
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I have my doubts about all these various government pronouncements that only electric vehicles (of various kinds) will be permitted after 2035, or 2050, or 2200, or whenever.

It's really easy for any government to "virtual-signal" today and gain public approval points by making such pronouncements, but it remains to be seen whether or not such bans on petrol-powered vehicles ever come to pass. I'm pretty sure that if electrical distribution networks begin to suffer from the load created by vast numbers of electric cars being charged up overnight, or someone discovers that end-of-life electric car batteries are worse than nuclear waste, all these noble government promises will be quickly forgotten, or dates deferred, etc.

As for the UK - the government there has demonstrated over the past 2 years that they could f'ck up the Lord's Prayer... witness the COVID statistics, the shortage of truck drivers, the Northern Ireland customs mess, etc. I think that they are just trying to score some goody two-shoes points and deflect attention away from today's catastrophes of their own making with the petrol car ban announcement.

Michael

PS: Once the government realizes how much tax revenue they are going to lose from fuel taxes, they might think twice about banning internal combustion engines.
Michael, as we all know a week is a long time in politics, never mind 14 years. Will the politics or logistics of 2035 allow such a measure, who knows. Not forgetting Cop26 is hosted in Glasgow in the next week or so. The hosting government, that's the UK, not Scotlands rabble need to make the right noises.
Even gas central heating has been banned from 2035, no one's quite sure what that means in reality and houses are still being built and will continue to be built with natural gas powered boilers.
In short, it's madness, as mad as Mad Jock McMadd, the winner of last year's Mr.Mad competition.
Upt'North.
 

rjs987

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I'm not real concerned about this. 2035 is 14 years off. I'll be 80 about then. I don't think I'll be in the market for any new motorcycle at that age but will likely be continuing to ride what I have at that point IF I am still riding. Gas fuel for vehicles will likely still be around by then and provided side by side with charging stations IF this all goes as the powers that electrically be get their way. If I'm not riding at 80 yo I'll still be able to take the electric bus since I won't need to go farther than across town if that. Around my town some of the buses are already EV. And any shopping I need to do will have delivery to my door perfected even better than it is today. I really don't expect to be living past 90 if I even make it that long, family history and all. Who really knows? Maybe my last form of 2 wheeled transport that I buy when I'm 78 will be a small electric scooter just to tool around local city streets. And I'll charge it at home overnight when electric power loads are lowest. I already live in an all electric house with a geothermal system and I burn no gas for any appliance at home. This rates me a discount from the power company for being all electric... at least for now. Besides, it is a fact that electric generation power plants are far more efficient and spew far less greenhouse gasses into the air than any collection of dino powered vehicles when taking into account all the vehicles in the entire same area as the power plant supports so to me it makes sense to let the power plants generate and provide electric power to charge an EV for short range use. They waste a lot of energy anyway when demand is not at peak (more efficient to keep generating for peak even when it's not needed which is something places like CA can do a lot better at). And keep a gas powered vehicle for long range use, at least for the present until they figure out a better power storage medium that can extend the range and shorten the recharge time a lot more than it is today.
 

ST1100Y

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It's really easy for any government to "virtual-signal" today and gain public approval points by making such pronouncements, but it remains to be seen whether or not such bans on petrol-powered vehicles ever come to pass.
They don't differentiate between urban and rural areas...
Imagine you live in the "outbacks" couple of hours away from any larger settlement (with doctors, dentists, pharmacy, groceries, etc...), maybe during a blizzard, wipers, lights heater on and you get stuck with empty batteries...
I'm pretty sure that if electrical distribution networks begin to suffer from the load created by vast numbers of electric cars being charged up overnight...
Interestingly are they running "be prepared for blackouts!" campaigns parallel to the EV-hype over here... makes sense eh? ;)
 
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ReSTored

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Bottom line for me is that I believe that humans are a significant contributor to climate change for a variety of reasons. That said, before we run completely amuck endorsing this and cancelling that I'd like to see a proper accounting of the carbon footprint for existing products / services and then the supposedly "green" alternative.

Europe is moving ahead promoting pellet type stoves as an alternative to other fuels and North Carolina is a key producer of pellets, which are then shipped 3,000 miles to market. Europe does not factor in the carbon footprint of production outside of the EU, so the program is being sold as a green alternative when I suspect it's not green at all.

Across North America millions of acres are dedicated to corn production to produce ethanol to add to gas. I've read that the overall carbon footprint of this effectively negates any environmental benefit, so other than padding farmer's pocketbooks the whole program is a sham.
 

drrod

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Jambriwal

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Now that we have created the best Motorcycles and cars ever uh lets get rid of them. So many technical reasons we are not ready now and if they can do it by 2035 who knows.
Predictions are easy, the work to make them happen, not so much.
Although the mindset of today with so called Traffic calming devices where your herded into a never ending line like being stuck at Disney for the rest of your life. I can see where this is agreeable to some people. Quiet clean transportation that moves you around with hardly a thought or effort on your part.
Or those of us that would appreciate Good wood Festival of Speed or a trip to the Bonneville Salt flats.
I have come to accept one reality in my life is that all things change. At today's pace change is happening faster than i had anticipated.
Hoping most of them are good but my perspective ideally would be an informed optimist.
Although some of this stuff like a driver-less motorcycle brings out my pessimistic side.
 
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How come this rule is not being applied to airlines. Jet planes burn millions of tons of carbon fuel per day. No one is going there because it hurts the high and mighty corporations.
Energy density of gasoline (or in this case jet fuel) is still higher than that of batteries.
 

V4 Rider

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By 2035 many ST11 bikes will be qualifying for Historic Vehicle category ( No MoT safety check or tax costs). ST13s will qualify from 2042.

Can't see Govt banning historic vehicles from road - there would be a massive outcry

So start filling your garage with your choice of bikes, and include a few "stink wheels" just for the hell of it
 
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When your ST1300 gets the same fuel economy as your VW TDI... it makes you wonder why electric... the electricity has a horrible carbon foot print.
 
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How come this rule is not being applied to airlines. Jet planes burn millions of tons of carbon fuel per day. No one is going there because it hurts the high and mighty corporations.
Now....you do know these rules are for the little people. The minions. The way this works is government officials are exempt for all rules and laws passed:rolleyes:
 
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drrod

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Some interesting reading here regarding Norway and EV's.


 

rwthomas1

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We live in interesting times. At one point the world was lit by whale oil. Things change. However, when we quit whale oil it was for a better solution, and one that existed. There is no current solution that can fulfill these mandates. Forcing the technology will either create the breakthroughs that will be required for electric to come close to equaling petroleum, OR the way we live, work and recreate will change and likely drastically.

I have a friend, the type with a PhD and a DOD job to develop battery technology for the military. He isn't exactly optimistic about the rate of development in batteries. According to him, the change has been good, but mostly incremental, and they are stymied in trying to come close to the energy density of petroleum. Dunno what's the worth of that, but there it is.

What troubles me at a very basic level is being told what, where, and when I can own, purchase, operate machines, and control my activity. They attempt to guilt me into compliance. I'm relatively sure the third world will lag far behind the "leading" countries in this regard. Simply due to the fact that this new electric technology will cost a lot more and require a more developed infrastructure. So my solution should this come to pass, and honestly where I was going anyway, is to skip out and relocate back to the Caribbean, or elsewhere as it suits me. There's a lot fewer regulations, etc. in those places.

RT
 

SupraSabre

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These Politicians have been convinced by THE BIG MONEY folks that "Renewable Energy" is the way of the future!

Kaliforniastan is trying to pull something similar.

What's going to happen when the electrical grids fall apart?

All this electric crap will be nothing but Paper Weights!

Time to learn how to build my own Oil/Gas refinery :cool:
 

jfheilman

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A quote from the article:

In the plan the Department for Transport goes on to say: ‘Zero emission motorcycles and other powered two wheelers are an efficient and clean form of mobility that can reduce congestion, improve urban air quality and reduce noise – we will take forward measures to remove these emissions, including consulting on a date to end the sale of new non-zero emission motorbikes, ensuring we support the development of new industrial opportunities for the UK. While cars and vans outnumber motorcycles on UK roads, motorcycles are an important and sizeable vehicle population, with 1.4 million licensed in 2020 and we do not want to see them remaining fossil fuelled as the rest of the vehicle fleet cleans up’

Key words "zero emission motorcycles". These three words are almost humorous if they were not used so often.

First, a zero emission motorcycls would imply that they do not emit anything but the term never takes into account the notion of where they get their energy from. That is, how are the batteries charged.

So, if you have a battery powered car, bike, tractor, go kart, ect, and you plug it into the grid to charge the batteries you are NOT ZERO EMISSIONS.

That is unless you are totally off the grid and powered by solar or wind or nuclear.

So, I ask the question, how many of you are "zero emissions" today? How many of you expect to be "zero emissions" by 2035?

How many nuclear power plants will have to be built to meet the goal of zero emissions by 2035?

Can you meet the worlds energy need with solar and wind????

No you cannot...
 

diferg

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I believe that that the hydrogen fuel cell electric cars (2021 Honda Clarity, Hyundai Nexo and Toyota Mirai) would be a much cleaner and possibly cheaper alternative to battery powered electric cars. Very Quick refill and 300+ mile driving range. The biggest downside will be the infrastructure of hydrogen supply. This is where I wish the governments would focus their attention. EDIT And these cars dont need lithium from China
 
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Was looking around for the gas thread to post this pic, taken July 31st, since then 94 / no ethanol has settled around $1.80 on the lower mainland.

But this is how it's done here, add more taxes, the sky's the limit.

The kicker of the EV is, talk about being seriously down on your luck and at the same time, standing in the right place at the right time, what is it 20 trillion in market capitalization, now the world's largest car manufacturer?

A guy that only fourteen years ago had dealerships full of warranty returned cars that didn't even fit together properly, on the verge of bankruptcy, holds his hand out and gets it filled with close to half a billion tax dollars, twice?

Not exactly your typical Henry Ford, but hey, it worked.
 

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