Tinnitus question

BakerBoy

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An issue in the industrial processes for which I provide R&D is the sound pressure imposed by the equipment. Most of our plants are over 90dB and some are over 100dB, and personnel work in 8 or 12 hour shifts. To protect irreversible hearing damage, we require single protection (ear plugs) over 90, and add muffs when over 100dB to meet OSHA regs. I can attest that even with hearing protection, it is very exhausting to be in that sound for that duration. As mentioned by others above, tinnitus is not to be ignored as it is indication of damage.

Motorcycling in my judgement is less than 90 dB. However, it is still exhausting and hearing protection is prudent IMO. Fairings and windshields help if the wind is kept off the helmet. But still, it is IMO necesary to wear hearing protection.

As far as I know, it is not yet possible to accurately measure the sound dB inside a filled helmet it while riding down the road. The instruments are still handheld and the sensor is hardmounted with a waveguide (it won't fit in your helmet with your head in it). I'm unaware of real test data, but I'd guess the sound is in the low 80's dB.

I used to wear NRR 33 plugs when motorcycling, but now I listen to music in my Etymotic sound isolating earbuds. And there's quite a bit of difference--the Etymotics provide less than NRR 33, as far as I can tell.

The best plugs you can buy are Howard Leight Max and have a NRR rating of 33 (in perfect conditions)--the best part is that you can find them at almost any drug store and they're cheap and comfortable. Here's what they look like.

Most audiologist's molded plugs have NRR of 20's or may reach 30, and they're expensive. But the best part is that they should fit nicely, potentially providing better installed sound reduction than a poorly fitted foam plug. Also some custom plugs have a 'filter' in them to allow specific sound frequency through (like voices). There are some at my company who wear the custom plugs and seem to like them, but most wear the foam plugs--most find the foam plugs better. YMMV

This article gives a reasonable overview of sound levels and the concept of "NRR".

...just my 2 cents...
 
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I always ride with ear plugs but I use the cheap foam ones. They are better than nothing.
What do you mean by the cheap foam ones. As far as I know the foam ones such as Howard Leight Max have the best NRR rating of any ear plugs. I believe it's around 38. They work much better if you insert them deep in the ear. Takes some experience knowing just how to insert them so as to be able to remove them.

Last year I forgot to take ear plugs with me to Laguna Seca. Since it's impossible to be near the MotoGP bikes without ear protection I had custom plugs made at one of the vendors there. They are great, and comfortable, but the NRR rating of the custom ones are actually less then the HL Max foam plugs. I had them make the custom ones in different color for each ear so I can tell at a glance which one goes where. The cost at the track was something like $60. They had quite a line of people having them made.
 

Blrfl

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What do you mean by the cheap foam ones.
At $25 for 200 pair, they're cheap. :rolleyes: I use the Howard Leight Maxes, too, and they do just fine.

Other than the fact that the Leights achieve a better NRR, I use the disposables because I can get a fresh, clean set when I want one and, as someone else pointed out, they're available at drug stores if I run out of spares. I know at least two people who are the proud owners of half a pair of custom ear plugs because one got lost/squashed/etc. If I lose a disposable, I'm out $0.13 for the pair.

--Mark
 
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I've used the Howard Leight Max since '96. I find them the most comfortable of the dozen or so I've tried. I have some permanent ringing now though, blind sided by a virus. :badabing: Easy enough to tune out unless I drink caffeine or alcohol. What? That's life.
 
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Be careful with the db rating of ear plugs there was a proposed change to the way they are measured. iirc the foam ones will not have the same attenuation as is currently marked on the package.

General rule of thumb, if you have to raise your voice to be heard over the backround noise, you need to be using ear plugs.
 

kieth

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There was a excellent series of articles about wind noise , ringing in the ears, and ear plugs in 1998 or 1999 in Motorcycle Consumer News. The name of the Article was "Do You Hear what I Hear ?" Here is a summary of what it said:

1. Wind noise is a Bass Tone

2. Bass tones travel through all types of materials (it does not matter whether one has a helmet on or not the wind noise gets to the ear)

3. The sound wave that wind makes is about 11 ft long(from memory) and it makes your ear drum go back and forth to its limits when you are riding causing tenitis. It is at a level high enough to be considered harmful.

4. Wear ear plugs of at least -25db (or noise attenuatin ear plugs that filter out bass tones and allow higher frequency sounds (rock musician etymotic research -15db or -25db or -25 or -30db foam ear plugs.

5. The article then went in to more information about hearing damage and other issues

6. Since then I have worn custom made ear plugs or custom in ear speakers it really has helped and I feel like I have stopped damaging my hearing.

Kieth :rolleyes:
 

Rob Hephner

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As far as I know, it is not yet possible to accurately measure the sound dB inside a filled helmet it while riding down the road.

It is actually quite simple. We use an in-ear microphone that is calibrated to the test computer. (The test programming and computer were the real key. ;) )

Most helmets cut noise above 3K down below 90 dB, all but a few get 500 to 3K below 90 dB and none I have tested get the level below 90 dB 500 and down at 65 MPH on a rubberized asphalt freeway.

I'd love to post the info and even offered Motorcyclist Magazine the process, but they drug their feet and a manufacturer bought the exclusive use of the testing process.

But, it exists.
 

BakerBoy

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It is actually quite simple. We use an in-ear microphone that is calibrated to the test computer. (The test programming and computer were the real key. ;) )

Most helmets cut noise above 3K down below 90 dB, all but a few get 500 to 3K below 90 dB and none I have tested get the level below 90 dB 500 and down at 65 MPH on a rubberized asphalt freeway.

I'd love to post the info and even offered Motorcyclist Magazine the process, but they drug their feet and a manufacturer bought the exclusive use of the testing process.

But, it exists.
Cool, thanks for the info Rob. The dB levels in helmet you mentioned above are a bit higher than I expect based on my auditory experiences with high sound pressure. Maybe the difference is that my helmet is usually tucked mostly behind a windshield. Is the above data for a helmet fully exposed to the wind?
 

Rob Hephner

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Cool, thanks for the info Rob. The dB levels in helmet you mentioned above are a bit higher than I expect based on my auditory experiences with high sound pressure. Maybe the difference is that my helmet is usually tucked mostly behind a windshield. Is the above data for a helmet fully exposed to the wind?
I test fully exposed and behind the stock screen on my ST1300.

Without getting into exact numbers the levels still are at the point that warrants hearing protection for extended periods of time.

If you have you screen all the way up and you are tucked behind it you'll be able to run a lot longer and could possibly be under the stated threshold, bit not by much.
 
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Speaking of Tinnitus, I just gave a new helmet I purchased over Christmas it's first trial run. The helmet, and HJC CL-15 was bought at a 40% discount @ Cyclegear. Think I paid $75 or $80 for it. Nice helmet, fits well, and is comfortable (but not as comfortable as my Arai)... but the noise inside that helmet past 60 is not to be believed! I did 500 miles today on the Viffer with the HJC on. I had 32db plugs in and my ears are still ringing like crazy! I have tinnitus already but the ringing is louder than usual. Hope today's little trial run didn't make it permanently worse.

Next week I'm going to try the HJC while riding the ST. Hopefully with a different windscreen configuration it won't be any noisier than the Arai but I doubt it. I suspect that I am now in possession of a $75 bookend. Rats!
 

BakerBoy

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I have both a HJC CL-14 and a KBC TK-8, and the HJC is noticeably quieter.

During rides I have run my hand around, on, under, beside each helmet to get a sense of where the noise is coming from. The KBC has large noises generated at/near the top and rear air vents, but it also seems more prone to let noise through everywhere so and I have decided that it is basic shell/liner construction.

The HJC noise increases quite a bit when the top-front air vents are open. The next most noticeable noise comes in from underneath, forward of the chin. That noise is not wind buffeting noise as it is not in the high speed air, but it is all the 'noise' made by the bike. I can cover that opening with my hand and it reduces sound inside the HJC. Although my gloved hand is likely much more of a noise blocker than thin polyester/fabric windscreen material, the windscreen shown above in river's post fully covers the area well. So one of those windscreens may help a bit...I've always wanted to try one but haven't.

I'm not trying to create a helmet debate, rather just saying that there is a difference between different helmets. At different times on this site, I've heard things like "it's a quiet helmet" from others who comment on their new helmet, but I've no way of knowing what sound dB level that represents. At the moment, I know what I've got with my HJC and am reluctant to spend many hundreds on a different helmet. :shrug2:
 
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BluesRider

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I have to chime in on this because its an interesting thread and I have a huge tinnitus problem too. My ears started ringing a year ago and they never stopped. This was probably from years of going to live music shows and being up close to the speakers with no hearing protection, and also from motorcycle riding since I was 19. I'm sure more the later since many more hours of exposure are on the bike, especially in recent years, and the live music shows are few and far between and I wear musicians earplugs for those now.

I purchased a SHOEI Multitec In last November. Really like the helmet functionality but since then I have noticed the ringing much more while I ride and especially for a day or two after I ride significant distance the ringing is much louder and really annoying. I like to listen to music while I ride but not at volumes loud enough to make the tinnitus worse. I find even with earplugs the noise is an issue, worse even. I have the best custom molded earplugs from earplug superstore and even those don't help with the wind noise, which seems to reverberate off the plugs and get into my ears and drown out the music. I've also tried the Tecsatar PlugPhones for motorcycle riders which supposed to be noise canceling to some degree. They were no better. I have not tried the Etymotic ER-6 because they are expensive and I have serious doubts they will work either unless someone here knows differently. I'm going to try the Howard Leight Max earplugs next because many here say they work great, but I'll have to forgo the music with earplugs, which really makes long distance rides more enjoyable for me. Interestingly, on the Multitec there is no padding where the ears are. I imagine thats so in-helmet speakers can be installed there. I don't understand why they don't put padding there that can be removed for speakers. I'm going to try some sound insulation foam there if I can find some and see if it helps. There has to be a solution that will reduce the noise enough so I don't have the really loud ringing for days after riding. Obviously I don't want to damage my ears more than I already have either.

I do find having the ST windshield up over the top of my helmet helps, but I live in Florida and its hot with the full-face helmet and the windshield blocking all the air. If there is a helmet out there thats better, or better earphones I would spend the money because this is a big problem, but I'd really like to solve it with the SHOEI.

Has anyone else noticed more wind noise with the Multitec?

I haven't tried the Windjammer or NOJ Quiet Rider. The reviews don't excite me much.
Still looking for answers.

Rick
 
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<SNIP> just saying that there is a difference between different helmets.
That's quite true. Wish there were a way for some rating organization to quantify the noise a helmet makes. Absent that, all I can do is compare to helmets that I've already owned. The only thing I can say for sure regarding my current dilemma is that on the same bike, the Arai Quantum is much quieter than the HJC. Just wish the Arai didn't cost so darn much!
 

BakerBoy

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That's quite true. Wish there were a way for some rating organization to quantify the noise a helmet makes. Absent that, all I can do is compare to helmets that I've already owned. The only thing I can say for sure regarding my current dilemma is that on the same bike, the Arai Quantum is much quieter than the HJC. Just wish the Arai didn't cost so darn much!
Thanks Mick, it's great to hear qualitative comparisons (your Arai being quieter than your HJC). In the absence of a common noise rating system, all we have are comparisons such as that.
 
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river

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FWIW, my ringing has subsided very much since last weekend. It's always there but quiet enough that I seldom notice it. But I consider this a wakeup call. I have heard the shoei rf1200 and arai quantun 2 are quiet from multiple sources with disagreement about which is better. Also going to try a windshield and have an appt with audiologist.
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I have two electronic noise cancelling headsets. One is for flying and one for shooting. Isn't it time, someone incorporates this technology into a motorcycle helmet? Two AA batteries is all it requires for the aviation version and the shooting types use a photo type battery inside each ear cup. If anybody decides to patent this idea, please cut me in for 10%, eh?
I first discovered I had tinnitus when I kept hearing crickets at night................in January................in Pennsylvania.
 

BluesRider

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Well they have noise canceling earbuds but no batteries they don't work, for me anyway.
I think theres a slight chance foam inside the helmet by the ears might help. There has to be a way. I'm on a mission from GOD! If I invent something I'll let you in on it.

Stay away from those crickets in PA. I hear the inside of a jet liner in my head most of the time. Crickets sound peaceful.

River, enjoy your hearing test. I've had two of them. At least you'll find out you just have irreversible hearing loss and nothing else is wrong (as if thats not enough)
 
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Next week I'm going to try the HJC while riding the ST.
Decided to do this little test today with the HJC rather than wait. The minute I got up on the loop here in Houston I knew immediately that the HJC wasn't going to work on the ST. If you can believe this, it was even noisier than while riding the VFR!

Guess I'm stuck with buying expensive helmets from here on out. I had sincerely hoped that my $80 experiment would work out so that I would no longer be out so much money every 5 or 6 years at helmet replacement time.
 
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