Valve Clearance Inspection - R. side Cams not right?????

[1129VLD]

I'm doing a valve clearance inspection following GetSum's worksheet.

I checked the intake and exhaust valves on cylinder #1 with the timing mark at T1. The position of the cam lobes was as described/pictured, as were the markings on the cams.

I rotated the crank ~90 degrees CCW to T2 to check cylinder #4 The instructions indicate that the cam markings R-EX and R-IN should lined up on the inside .. mine do not and are not even close.

The bike has ~125,000 miles on it. I've checked the valves twice at around 50,000 and 85,000, using a different set of instructions. The right side has been in spec.

The bike did have a shim replaced on the right side at around 24,000 by the dealer (previous owner).

Thoughts? Feel free to call if you like. ( Eight o 5 ) Four 7 ate - ate 6 4 five.

 

[Mellow]

I don't have an answer for you... I can't remember if I turned 90 degrees CCW or just turned 'til I saw the cam marks line up then look through the sight to see a T2 there.

 

[RCS]

Your picture of the cam gears above is of the left intake and left exhaust. It should be of the right intake and right exhaust if you are checking the #4 cylinder



Here are the instructions from the Service Manual.

For the #1 cylinder.
Turn the crankshaft counterclockwise, align the T1 mark on the CKP sensor rotor with the index mark on the front crankcase cover. Make sure that the #1 cylinder piston is at top dead center on the compression stroke.

For #4 cylinder
Turn the crankshaft counterclockwise 1/4 turn , align the T2 mark on the CKP sensor rotor with the index mark on the front crankcase cover. Check clearance in #4 cylinder.

For #3 cylinder
Turn the creankshaft counterclockwide 3/4 turn, align the T1 mark on the CKP sensor rotor with the index mark on the front crankcase cover. Check the valve clearance for the #3 cylinder.

For #2 cylinder
Turn the crankshaft counterclockwise 1/4 turn align the T2 mark on the CKP sensor rotor with the index mark on the front crankcase cover. Check valve clearance on #2 cylinder.

Remember, piston is at Top Dead Center when there is clearance on both the intake and exhaust valves of that cylinder.

 

[1129VLD]

Your picture of the cam gears above is of the left intake and left exhaust. It should be of the right intake and right exhaust if you are checking the #4 cylinder

That is the #4 cylinder!!!, taken on the right side of the bike, looking forward.

Here are the instructions from the Service Manual.

Thank you. I didn't have time to reply to your PM that I have a manual.

Soooo. I went through the whole procedure again. I cranked the engine CCW 360 degrees a couple of times and then found the T1 mark in the view port. Checked cylinder #1 and then cranked the engine CCW another 90 degrees and lined up the T2 mark in the view port. The cams on the right side of the bike are again just like in post #1. What you can't see in the pictures on post #1 is that the outer marking on the cams are aligned as if I was checking cylinder #2 (step 4).

I then cranked the engine another 270 degrees and found the T1 mark. Checked the clearances for cylinder #3 (the exhaust clearances changed from the first time I did it, UGH). Then I cranked the engine CCW 90 degrees and found the T2 mark. Now the cams on the right side of the bike are aligned as if I was checking cylinder #4 (step 2).

I've done it three or four times now, so I know I'm not hallucinating. I'm going to have to find the service records that the PO gave me, but I think I recall that a shim was replaced on the right side at around 24,000 miles. If so, that means that the right side of the bike has been like that for over 100,000 miles!!??

No wonder I've never been able to do a wheelie.

 

[RCS]

What you can't see in the pictures on post #1 is that the outer marking on the cams are aligned as if I was checking cylinder #2 (step 4)

When you checked Cylinder #1, did you have clearances on both the exhaust and intake valves (meaning that they were both closed for compression cycle)? The reason I ask this is that at the start of the proceedure, the number 1 cylinder has to be at top dead center on the compression stroke.

 

[1129VLD]

When you checked Cylinder #1, did you have clearances on both the exhaust and intake valves (meaning that they were both closed for compression cycle)? The reason I ask this is that at the start of the proceedure, the number 1 cylinder has to be at top dead center on the compression stroke.

Yes. 3 of the 4 valves were in spec, one exhaust valve off by .001. The location of the lobes is exactly like the pictures in the example.

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[Scooter]

Just a guess on my part but I'm thinking that you are actually turning the crankshaft CW instead of CCW and that's why the number two and 4 cylinder marks are swapped.

I never bother with the "turn crankshaft x degrees". I make the assumption that my engine is timed correctly and I simply go and turn the crank CCW until I align the timing marks as shown in the manual for the cylinder that I'm checking. Do that and I bet that you will see the T2 mark where it belongs when you've got cylinder two and four where they need to be...

 

[1129VLD]

When I'm cranking the engine the wrench starts at nine o'clock and end at six o'clock, I crack down for ninety degrees, that is ccw.

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[ChucksKLRST]

Make sure you are looking at the correct marks on the cam gear. L ext, L in are for the left cylinders and the marks R ext and R in are used for the right side cylinders. all the cam gears have all the marks. Which one you use for reference are dependent on the side of the bike you are checking. I made that mistake the first time I check my right side. I was tring to line up the L ext and the L in marks. Did not work well. The manual is not very clear when it come to the right side of the bike.

 

[BakerBoy]

Jeff, to Chuck's point, below are images from mine just a couple months ago...moments before taking them off for shim changes.

R-EX and R-IN are level to the block and outboard when the right bank is TDC (note that the L-EX and L-IN are not level to the block). Looks just like yours, eh?

And L-EX and L-IN are level to the block and outboard when the left bank is at TDC.

If yours doesn't look like this while having the T1 and T2 marks correctly indicatred in the view hole, then perhaps there is more sleuthing required.

 

[v8-7]

Since you can see the cam lobe, isn't it easier just to turn the engine until the valve is 180 deg off the cam lobe ?

 

[1129VLD]

Since you can see the cam lobe, isn't it easier just to turn the engine until the valve is 180 deg off the cam lobe ?

This procedure would be fine for checking the clearance, but it assumes that the cams are in there correctly and the timing is correct.

I've taken a break from this project for awhile so I can go back at it with a fresh pair of eyes. I'll post the results shortly.

 

[1129VLD]

I've gone through the procedure a couple more times now.

I start out with the T1 timing mark centered in the view hole. The cam sprockets on the left side of the bike (looking forward) show L-IN and L-EX on the outside of the sprockets. The cam lobes for cylinder #1 are up (away) from the top of the bucket (the cam lobe is in the same position as GetSum's example). I removed the spark plugs from the left side of the bike and visually confirmed that the piston is near the plug hole, indicating it is on a compression stroke. There is clearance between the cam and the top of the bucket.

I now rotate the engine 90 degrees CCW causing the T1 timing mark to disappear from the view hole to the left (as you are looking at the front of the bike) and the T2 mark to appear from the right. I line up the T2 timing mark with the arrow in the center of the view hole.

I should now be ready to check the clearances for cylinder #4. However the timing marks on the cam sprockets are not correct. I should be seeing R-EX and R-IN lined up on the inboard side of the cam sprockets. Instead, what I am seeing is R-EX and R-IN lined up on the outside of cam sprockets. The cam lobes for Cylinder #4 are just touching the edge of the bucket.

Rotate the engine 270 degrees CCW back to T1. On the left side of the bike L-EX and L-IN are lined up on the inside of the sprockets and cylinder #3 is visually confirmed to be TDC; the lobes are up and away from the top of the buckets.

Rotate the engine 90 degrees CCW to T2. On the right side of the bike R-EX and R-IN are lined up on the inside of the sprockets and the lobes are just touching the outside edge of the buckets for Cylinder #2.

It appears to me that whomever did work on the right side of the bike ~100,000 miles ago didn't put the cams back in properly. They were probably at T2 in the view hole and lined up the cams for cylinder #2 instead of #4.

Can a bike run like that??

 

[okmurdog]

EDIT - Nevermind...I usually check one side before of the bike before moving to the other side. I haven't worked out the math, but would think if the cams were out by 180?, some interference issues would arise

 

[1129VLD]

EDIT - Nevermind...I usually check one side before of the bike before moving to the other side. I haven't worked out the math, but would think if the cams were out by 180?, some interference issues would arise

Ok, I forgive you!

 

[ChucksKLRST]

I've gone through the procedure a couple more times now.

I start out with the T1 timing mark centered in the view hole. The cam sprockets on the left side of the bike (looking forward) show L-IN and L-EX on the outside of the sprockets. The cam lobes for cylinder #1 are up (away) from the top of the bucket (the cam lobe is in the same position as GetSum's example). I removed the spark plugs from the left side of the bike and visually confirmed that the piston is near the plug hole, indicating it is on a compression stroke. There is clearance between the cam and the top of the bucket.

I now rotate the engine 90 degrees CCW causing the T1 timing mark to disappear from the view hole to the left (as you are looking at the front of the bike) and the T2 mark to appear from the right. I line up the T2 timing mark with the arrow in the center of the view hole.

I should now be ready to check the clearances for cylinder #4. However the timing marks on the cam sprockets are not correct. I should be seeing R-EX and R-IN lined up on the inboard side of the cam sprockets. Instead, what I am seeing is R-EX and R-IN lined up on the outside of cam sprockets. The cam lobes for Cylinder #4 are just touching the edge of the bucket.

Rotate the engine 270 degrees CCW back to T1. On the left side of the bike L-EX and L-IN are lined up on the inside of the sprockets and cylinder #3 is visually confirmed to be TDC; the lobes are up and away from the top of the buckets.

Rotate the engine 90 degrees CCW to T2. On the right side of the bike R-EX and R-IN are lined up on the inside of the sprockets and the lobes are just touching the outside edge of the buckets for Cylinder #2.

It appears to me that whomever did work on the right side of the bike ~100,000 miles ago didn't put the cams back in properly. They were probably at T2 in the view hole and lined up the cams for cylinder #2 instead of #4.

Can a bike run like that??

It is a zero clearance motor. Not good. Just brain storming here, Are you counting the cylinders properly? I made a cheat sheet and I lay it on the bike so I can remember the cylinder count.

 

[SupraSabre]

When Byron and I checked mine a couple of weeks ago, I found when I tried to line them up with the T1 & T2 markings, my cams were just slightly off. Byron suggested that they would be off from chain stretch, which makes sense. I was sitting at 116K.

 

[1129VLD]

It is a zero clearance motor.

What do you mean?

 

[1129VLD]

When Byron and I checked mine a couple of weeks ago, I found when I tried to line them up with the T1 & T2 markings, my cams were just slightly off. Byron suggested that they would be off from chain stretch, which makes sense. I was sitting at 116K.

Did you have any adjustments? If so, did you put the cam markings back where they should be?

 

[SupraSabre]

Did you have any adjustments? If so, did you put the cam markings back where they should be?

No adjustments, (thank goodness). But I have had to do some in the past. The first time I did have to make adjustments, I put the left cams one tooth off and was getting a popping sound when I would let off the throttle. Rode it that way for about a month until I decided to check the timing. That's when I found them off. I fixed it and it's been running fine.