Another high speed wooble accident

[woodybelle]

Defiant that is interesting that you experience a wobble at approximately 110 mph. My 06 ST has only been less than stable once and it was at the same speed. I would describe it as a weave because it wasn't the bars that were shaking but the whole bike weaved side to side. I was on a camping trip and had a lot of weight far back and high up, ice chest on rear Turbo Tom rack, large Moto Fizz bag on rear seat with large Thermarest on top of that. I didn't try going faster, just slowed down and it went away. I have been over 110 mph several times when not loaded and never had a problem.

 

[H20SKIER]

I love reading the comments from the "Non Honda Riders" on other sites. Cracks me up!!!!!!! Some are just jerks....

 

[fink]

Check out your rear suspension having a fiddle with that you should be able to dial out any wobble you may have. Also ensure you bike is evenly loaded

Ono of the so called probs with police bikes is that all the video gear is stored in the left pannier and practically nothing of weight in the riight or so im told, it was also put down to the rear light matrix and light pole as well as different suspension units.

 

[Derek Ohland]

I used to ride a Honda Varedero - tis is a 1000cc Adventure / tourer bike - it appeared to me to be the ideal all round type of bike - I traded it in a few months later on a new ST1300, as in strong cross winds this bike was a major liability, and riding in dirty air behind large trucks etc. the bike developed a distinc weave - now these are characteristics that I have not experienced on the ST 1300 - and I have done about 10 000 kms on it now, regulary going 170 - 180 but not faster than 200kmh.
Obviously the aerodynamics are not that of a 'blade or R1.
It is a sports tourer - however, I must say that the more I ride this bike, the more confidance I have in it and the more I like it. Every day I look forward to riding it.
The Varadero is a nice bike under normal conditions it goes fine, but I lost my confidance in it.
Thus far the ST1300 has been the opposite - over the months I have gained more confidance in it and enjoy it daily all the more.

 

[BigTom]

Hey, Derek

Have you ridden in the rain yet? That's when you find out what that dirty air wobble is all about...you are pushing a barn door down the road. It does react to dirty air and side winds, part of the design. But it keeps the 'stuff' off the rider...

 

[Da Ace]

I used to ride a Honda Varedero - tis is a 1000cc Adventure / tourer bike - it appeared to me to be the ideal all round type of bike - I traded it in a few months later on a new ST1300, as in strong cross winds this bike was a major liability, and riding in dirty air behind large trucks etc. the bike developed a distinc weave - now these are characteristics that I have not experienced on the ST 1300 - and I have done about 10 000 kms on it now, regulary going 170 - 180 but not faster than 200kmh.
Obviously the aerodynamics are not that of a 'blade or R1.
It is a sports tourer - however, I must say that the more I ride this bike, the more confidance I have in it and the more I like it. Every day I look forward to riding it.
The Varadero is a nice bike under normal conditions it goes fine, but I lost my confidance in it.
Thus far the ST1300 has been the opposite - over the months I have gained more confidance in it and enjoy it daily all the more.

Thank Derek, I always wondered if i made the best choice for a bike and now you have confirmed it for me. I also live in South Africa. Great country for these super tourers, or is it just me. After 87,500kms in 2,5 years I'm still very happy with my ST.

 

[Dono3797]

I have had my 05 over 100 many, many times... I have had it to 8000rpm in 5th gear well above that speed a few times for two to three miles without any problems. I have been hanging off the side in slow curves at 100+ with time to glance around and observe the tach, speedo and and take in the beauty of my surroundings. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones who's ride was made in mid-week and all the nuts and bolts were tightened with care. All I can say is that my ST is as smooth at 5MPH all the the way till I cant get her to go no mo!

Maybe there are other factors that aren't seen or known in regard to these "High speed accidents"....

"Semper Fi"

 

[Killtimer]

I would really caution anyone who assumes that their ST1300 will be rock solid under all and any riding circumstances. This issue appears at it's own whim and many times is not repeatable. It's also not a constant and it's been proven to be an extremely elusive thing to produce..... Don't bet your health or life that it will not happen to your bike. Please be careful. Just because you've exceeded the speed threshold a few times under a few different conditions doesn't mean that you or your bike are immune.

 

[Ray]

Just because you've exceeded the speed threshold a few times under a few different conditions doesn't mean that you or your bike are immune.

I have to agree with Killtimer. We do need to be careful out there. I get mine up to high speeds quite often up on the interstate. I have not had any problems with mine concerning the wobble issue but I am still very mindful of it especially when approaching 18 wheelers which causes their own wind drags as it is which if not careful can cause any bike to do all kinds of nasty things. As have been said before I don't think there is any one thing that is causing this issue. Ya'll be safe and have fun out there. oPoST1:

 

[Dono3797]

Never said that I was immune and I'm not betting my life on it. Just said that there are many factors that are "unknown". And where did you read that I stated that I assume that "my" bike is "rock solid " under all and any riding circumstances? Yeah, let's see that there ole wise one... I ride 100+ in traffic... oh yeah and I also ride as fast as I can on bald tires when it rains "power sliding" around curves while laughing at all the cagers. There are many factors as to how and when one will flex his or her ride. You shouldn't assume that others think that they are immune.

 

[Frank Cerynik]

I have to say this, I went to the flea market with my sister in her car and when I got to her house I put a watermelon in one side bag, a gallon of cider and tools in the other,
loaded the givi top box, and put a fifty pound sack of potatos on the seat and rode home rock solid. You want a wobble take a 500 kow, two stroke triple to a hundred and hit a curve. People are spoiled today. The ST is a gem and I rode a lot of them.

 

[patiodadio]

I wonder if the people having the high speed wobble problem are used to riding large sport touring bikes. I think all large fully faired bikes might have a little wobble in dirty air, but if you are expecting it you don't pay much attention to it. Tho I have only had my ST eight months I have over 9K on it and lots of high speed super slab miles and zero high speed wobble. At least no more than I had on the Connie or the BMW. All of them feel very stable at speed.


.

 

[AZ711]

Back to the weave/wobble. I've noticed this even when some mini-vans are ahead of me. And with big trucks it's there sometimes and sometimes not. The effect of the wind stream seems somewhat lessened by the position of the windscreen - a high position seems simply to move the entire bike rather than induce any weaving motion. AND, I have actually practiced altering my seat position in these conditions. When I know I am entering a draft situation I can lessen the movement just by locking my knees to the tank and stiffening my upper body as I slightly relax my grip on the handlebars. It helps.

Noticed the same effect when on the freeway this past weekend. Coming up on semi's between 80 - 85mph, I would feel a weave come on. I have the factory stock short windshield and after market topbox. This weave was felt more through the seat of the pants and not through the bars. I found that if I gripped the tank with my knees, as mentioned above, and crouched down a bit, I was able to pass the big rig with a much more stable bike. But as others have said, there are just so many variables involved, hard to tell if and when it will occur.

 

[Raven]

I've had the bike at triple digits speeds with no issues.

Regarding "dirty air"
I did a little experiment riding across Kansas in mid-May.

So here's the environment:
2 lane road relatively flat, straight road (Hwy 54 in SouthWestern Kansas)
Semis running right at 80 mph (less 7% for ST's speedo error)
ST running right at 84 mph using a Throttlemeister (less 7% for ST's speedo error)

So, it's a long straight road with not a lot to "do" on it and I'd been reading some of the wobble and wind-blast threads and decided to try some things out. I noticed that the conditions were perfect for some especially vicious wind-blasts from the on-coming semis so thought - heck let's see what happens if........

When I gripped the handlebars very tightly, the semi-blast from the on-coming semis was so violent, I literally was on the verge of loosing control of the bike. The headshake was incredibly violent and pronounced and it felt like the bike was crashing and the handlebars were being jerked about (I avoided oscillation by releasing one hand and relaxing the other).

When I gripped the handlebars with a more relaxed grip, the semi-blast from the on-coming semis was still quite harsh but not to the point of feeling like crashing. It definitely felt uncomfortably unstable and would be very tiring to deal with all day.

When I gripped the handlebars with just my thumbs and middle fingers making an "O" shape around the bars, the semi-blast from the on-coming semis was greatly reduced to hardly any effect. I felt it with my body but it just barely transmitted to the handlebars.

When I rested my index fingers on the handlebars (one on both sides), the on-coming semi-blast hit me but the bike was rock solid.

When I rested one index finger on the handlebars (one on the right and none on the left - then one on the left and none on the right), once again, the on-coming semi-blast hit me but the bike was rock solid.

When I had no hands on the bars (just hovering over the grips but not touching) - bike was rock solid even though I felt my torso pushed by the semi-blast.

I did this hundreds of times coming across Western Kansas on my way to Kansas City. Always with the same effect - the tighter the grip, the more unstable the bike.

Anyway, don't take my word for it, try it yourself.

Ermax windscreen raised about an inch.
Panniers full and Givi V45 topbox full

 

[quattro87]

I've had the bike at triple digits speeds with no issues.

Regarding "dirty air"
I did a little experiment riding across Kansas in mid-May.



Ermax windscreen raised about an inch.
Panniers full and Givi V45 topbox full

Raven, I can and have seen those same effects on semi blast coming from the opposite direction, but my complaint is more the coming up on a pack of Semi's and dealing with the 85mph GPS weave that sets in when getting closer than 50yard from the rear of the semi. I just changed out the Bridgestones for a set of Avon Storms thinking that the weave and pull was more a function of the worn out stock tires. All excited, I went to work the next day with the new Avons only to be really disappointed, as the new Avons were worse by a long ways. It was so bad that I wouldn't even want to pass Semi's. The next day I went to work with the Hondaline top box left in the garage at home and the weave became much better, but still not good and worse than with the stock tires. I write it off to the Avons being a more tapered profile in the front leaving less contact patch in the front as compared to the rear. From what I have read, the weave is a function of more rear traction compared to front traction. Every bike will do it at some point as speed increases, but for a sport/tour bike to have issues at relatively moderate speeds is a little disappointing.

 

[AZ711]

I've had the bike at triple digits speeds with no issues.

Regarding "dirty air"
I did a little experiment riding across Kansas in mid-May......

Based on Raven's findings and my experienence this past weekend, (crouching down and creating less of a sail profile) it appears that the bike is more affected by inputs from your body being pushed around by the "dirty air" flow than anything else. I also agree with Quattro87 that the Avons seem to increase the sensitivity to this "dirty air" as well.

 

[naturally wired]

Based on Raven's findings and my experienence this past weekend, (crouching down and creating less of a sail profile) it appears that the bike is more affected by inputs from your body being pushed around by the "dirty air" flow than anything else. I also agree with Quattro87 that the Avons seem to increase the sensitivity to this "dirty air" as well.

plus one on the body inputs......when the the wind hits my shoulders with this jacket on .... but even then....with 40 psi plus front and rear, rear crancked, windshield(sail)down, 18.4 oz bar ends, and gripping the bar firmly thats away at the same time grip loosely on the bar close to the truck......this set up has worked well at all speeds and all wind conditions...with pr1's and my current smarts.....


....I would say my best mod to date was the bar ends though!!!....worth every penny .................slowed the steering inputs just enough to make all the difference.......

 

[headcase]

....I would say my best mod to date was the bar ends though!!!....worth every penny .................slowed the steering inputs just enough to make all the difference.......

Can you post more info on the bar end weights, please.

BTW I have had zero problems with wobble, heat, thermostat or other proverbial "ST problems" with my new to me 2006 ABS ST1300 after 5k miles.

I'm gonna unload my other ride I like it so much.

 

[Ray]

I went from Dunlop to Bridgestone tires and I am impressed. As I come up to 18 wheelers at higher speeds the feel is good. I have also discovered that if I lower my windshield a little this helps a lot with the wind drag. If I am attempting to catch up with someone and I am about to go around one I will also lean forward slightly and this has helped me out a lot.

 

[George]

May have nothing to do with it, but...

Worked extensively on STick last week, including tightening the tapered head bearings, which were too loose.

On the first ride after that maintenance, I noticed a slight weave when coming up behind a truck at speed, with a side wind. Took me a while to realize I had over-tightened the head bearings. Not much, but a little. Bike handles fine otherwise. I've had _way_ too tight steering bearings and it makes the bike "stiff." Handling is way bad. Never had just a little bit too tight before. So, loosened'em just a touch and all is okay.

Is it possible 1300s have a "too tight" issue? Might be something to check.