New Garmin Zumo XT

Riding aids must not be a distraction.
Indeed...

The "shaping points have proximity alarm" bug is again an issue...
One must open the *.gpx in BaseCamp and manually select [no alarm] on various shaping points for whatever reasons...

At least that the XT now seems to handle driving a detour and threading back into the route to "magically" picking up navigation again...
It still cannot handle not starting a pre-planned route on the (file)given starting point though...
Zumo like achitecture still insist on user prompt to [navigate to nearest entry point] (OK, one doesn't have to manually select (shaping)points to be skipped anymore...)

STill not very practical IMO...
My old, 2004 Quest-I simply doesn't care... it offers [navigate from current position] as option when calling up a route file, ignoring that by selecting [start route] to enter the route by just freely driving into it is no issue... it just picks up navigation once you enter the bearing-line without insisting rerouting back to the (missed) starting point...
It can even start a second task like [navigate to gas/food/accommodation] while leaving the actual route running undisturbed in the background...
 
Agreed on the distraction aspect.

I've a Garmin 2598 in a vehicle.... it has the same annoying school zone alerts which cannot be turned off. That would be a frustration and distraction to me on a motorcycle if piped into my ears.

Worse, the 'feature' in my 2598 is so zealous that it dings/warns of school zones ahead (even when not in the school zone), even when the road I'm on is not in the school zone. For example, it dings every friggin time I get in my vehicle and drive through my neighborhood (which has no school zone in it). There's a school on the other side of the highway that borders my neighborhood, but even the highway isn't in the school zone. Yet it dings and warns. Way over done.
 
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That is what the Garmin 660 would do. It received a lot of complaints from people on long challenge tours which followed a figure of 8 route. They complained that it would route them the wrong way at the cross-over point. In fact, that complaint was not a valid one, but if you happened to go down the wrong road at the crossover, or the crossover shared the same road for a while, then it was up to the user to work out whether to turn right or left when the magenta line forked. Now that is not difficult to work out, but whichever one you took it would happily continue navigating down that section. Backtrack and go down the correct route and it would continue from there as well. It required the user to have just a little bit of common sense.

But the later versions effectively split the route up into sections - allowing longer routes to be loaded and navigated - each section starting and ending at a Via Point - not that you notice that when navigating. But this also allowed stuff like traffic information, riding trends, twisty roads and such like to be added as features, which make minor modifications to a planned route possible - to avoid traffic for example. Personally, I preferred the way that the 660 did it, but it was slow, didn't have enough memory and the screen was nothing like as bright as the XT - but it was so forgiving. I spend a lot of time now stopping it from doing 'clever' stuff that I don't want it to do.

A good trick with the older devices was to create a circular route. Hop on the bike, start the route, wait for the GPS to kick in and it would tell you that you had reached your destination. Repeat.
 
Ever since I began using GPSs, I have muted the sound completely. I find the chatter very distracting. I prefer glancing at the screen when needed, which is why I mounted it centered on my windshield.

A lot of my riding is done with the GPS on, but without a destination. I usually zoom in all the way and back out one step, using it to let me know the shape of the road ahead, especially in the twisties.

As for routing, I just enter destinations one at a time as usual, and select the order. It doesn't try to return me to the path, and will re-calculate the most direct route to the destination after any detour.
 
Ever since I began using GPSs, I have muted the sound completely.
Hi Larry:

Fascinating that you should say that. When I first started using Garmin GPS devices on the motorcycle back in 2001, they didn't offer any spoken prompts. Somewhere around 2005 or so, voice guidance became available. My first reaction was 'who needs that?', because I had spent decades flying aircraft that were equipped with screen navigation devices that didn't talk to the pilot. So, I just ignored the voice guidance option.

At that time, I was beta testing devices for Garmin, and one of the engineers asked me for feedback on the voice guidance, so, I turned it on. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that I no longer needed to periodically scan the screen to see how far away from the next turn I was - I could pretty much ignore the visual display on the GPS, keep my head up looking down the road, and rely on a voice prompt to tell me when I needed to look at the screen to see what my next leg change would be.

I think that in an urban environment, voice prompts might get a little tiresome because there will be so many of them, but out on the road touring, I think voice prompts are great, primarily because they eliminate the need to periodically look at the screen, and also because nowadays all sorts of other useful information such as tire pressure warnings, traffic warnings, and even meteorological warnings are provided by the GPS device.

Having said that, I'm still enough of a Luddite that I don't want to receive phone calls when I am riding. I have yet to figure out how to leave the phone connected to the GPS so that it gets traffic & weather data, but doesn't receive voice calls. It's not a big problem for me because I only average about one incoming call a month when I am riding, but I do find that incoming phone calls are startling, and I don't like talking on the phone when I am in motion on the motorcycle (or in a car, for that matter).

Michael
 
I have just updated my software to V 2.90.

Behaviour of closest entry point seems to have changed again - for the worse in my opinion. Trouble is, I dont know precisely when it happened. At some point after 2.50 ir worked really well. It seemed to find the place on the route that was closest to the location of the bike. It would navigate to the magenta line and then continue navigation through the shaping points and Via Points from there.

Now it seems to select the closest Via Point to your current position, and it takes you to that, ignoring any shaping points that might be closer. Shaping points are the points that do not alert.

In other words it does exactly what ' Select Next Destination' does, but it makes the choice for you. Select next destination offers only Via Points. Whichever one you choose, it takes you straight there ignoring any shaping points before that chosen Via Point.

Note that 'Closest Entry Point' doesn't tell you which point it has chosen. The only clue is the small scale map displayed at the start - if you have the option turned on. See where the first flag is and note the absence of the blue disc shaping points. I havent found a way to display this map on screen once the route has been started.

So now, if you happen to choose Closest Entry Point when you start a circular route or a horse-shoe shaped route it is entirely possible that it will select the end point.

This was written after installing v2.90. It may have changed after 2.70 or 2.80 , but I didn't check. Ive lodged the issue with Garmin.

I want mine to go back to how it worked after 2.50 !,


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I have changed my mind again. Mainly because the XT has changed its behaviour again. I still have v2.90 installed, but now it seems to - work most of the time. After a series of pretty thorough tests, selecting 'Closest Entry Point' really did find its way to the closest point on the magenta route, and navigated to that, and then continued seamlessly from their. I tempted it with Via Points, Shaping Points. - but unless these were closer than another part of the plotted route, it refused to bite.

So what changed? I haven't got a clue. It is still v2.90. There hasn't been any later software updates, but there have been other updates. Eg cyclops data.
I have restarted the Zumo from cold a number of times. I wonder if that makes a difference, doing a cold boot after updating software. Or doing it twice?
i have also disabled in my maps, foursquare and ioverlander databases. And I refuse to allow it to do anything over wifi.

there is one situation where its behaviour is odd. It plots a route that takes me through the closest point, and instead visits the route point before that. But if I modify the route after the closest entry point, it doesn't. I suspect there is some logic for short routes to prevent the closest entry point from taking you direct to the end point or penultimate point - which would avoid a major upset if the route was an out and back from home.

[/edit]
 
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Wow, just watched another bug-thread on the German board:
With active Smartlink the XT recalculates an active route forcebly over receiving a [blocked road warning] without even prompting the user; in doing so it ignores all set shaping points and routing preferences given in the settings menu, hence ruining the entire route shipping you off to the motorway etc...
 
Wow, just watched another bug-thread on the German board:
With active Smartlink the XT recalculates an active route forcebly over receiving a [blocked road warning] without even prompting the user; in doing so it ignores all set shaping points and routing preferences given in the settings menu, hence ruining the entire route shipping you off to the motorway etc...
I'm a little bit of a Luddite, no maybe a bit more than a little, when it comes to Sat Nav. I know it will get me there but I also suspect it won't take me the way I would like. The suspicion arises from occasionally knowing a preferred route but the nav being insistent on taking me across cities, towns, down very iffy lanes etc.
When push comes to shove I use the mobile with maps ME or similar to assist in finding a location, normally accommodation at the end of the day.
But tales like this make me even less confident in reliance upon tech.
I think I'll buy a new map.
Upt'North.
 
... tales like this make me even less confident in reliance upon tech.
It are those feature overloaded new models running crazy... the phone receives something from Google, spits it into the GPS and the show begins...
Just did over 2000 trouble free kilometers with my ancient Garmin Quest-I...
 
Wow, just watched another bug-thread on the German board:
With active Smartlink the XT recalculates an active route forcebly over receiving a [blocked road warning] without even prompting the user; in doing so it ignores all set shaping points and routing preferences given in the settings menu, hence ruining the entire route shipping you off to the motorway etc...

That seems about right.

If you have the traffic receiver turned on, I think it assumes that you want it to route you around any build up of traffic. If you turn the option off, then it won't. There are a number of settings realting to Traffic; Current Provider; Subscriptions; Optimise Route; Traffic Alerts.

I suspect - but it is difficult to prove one way or the other - that the rider's profile that is built up over a number of rides, is used in a similar way. If the route gets the chance to recalculate it takes into account the riders perceived preference for certain types of roads. I believe that this is built up from the track logs - not the ones that you have deliberately recorded, but from the Travel History Setting - Settings->Device->Travel History
You can turn this off, but it will not then keep a track of where you have been. Personally, I like to have this as a record - I download the GPX files and they will plot onto OS maps or into Basecamp maps. Its very handy for remembering where I went on those long tours. But it can be cleared out - either by deleting the gpx file, or by using the Rest menu item - just under Travel History. If I go on a long trip, I'll download my old tracks and clear them all out, so that my riding in towns etc does not affect how the satnav routes me on tour.

But I do feel that the XT has gone a number of steps too far with this kind of stuff. It has a brilliant bright screen and a battery that lasts significantly longer than the 59x models (Ie a few hours rather than a few minutes, which is when my 590 dims itself). But much of the later stuff is a step in the wrong direction. One nice feature of the 595 was the live track facility. Start a trip and it will cause an email to be sent to everyone that you set up previoulsy containing a link to a website that contains a live map of where you are now. The XT doesn't have this unless you buy the satellite device - for some serious money.

I would take things that people say on other forums with a big dose of salt. It is very easy to blame the software for something that the Zumo seems to be doing, but it takes quite a bit of testing and teasing out what it is actually doing, and not many people are prepared to do that. I'm intrigued by the suggestion that avoiding traffic cuts out ALL of the shaping points on the route. Or does it actually miss the ones where the traffic is, or the ones up until the next Via Point. Knowing precisely what it does will help when planning a route in the first place.

@ST1100Y - would you mind PMing me the website address please ? I'll see if I can find out. I posted some stuff on one of the German sites a while back, and some of them will know me from that.

Personally, I loved the 660LM - it behaved sensibly and logically, and it was most forgiving when you went off route. People didn't like the fact that it would allow you to take the wrong route in a figure of 8 route - but you had to be half asleep to let it do that. But it was low on memory and it was slow. But is was an excellent bit of kit otherwise.
 
I want an iOS nav app that can open on an iPad ('cause I like my phone small). Tap Start and Finish. Done. If desired zoom in and tap 1/2/5/whatever points in between and watch the course start and snake through all the way points. Plans change – delete a given waypoint or just drag it to an alternate location and Rerouting ensues.

AirDrop to the phone. All that could be done on the bigger iPhones that some people prefer. Point and click input.

Now I know that this can be done with a computer/mouse/keyboard than loaded into a GPS blah blah. That's not the same or what I want.

A plus of using a phone (though not trying to start a debate is AirDropping (BT-WiFi ad hoc network) a map from one iPhone to another on the fly especially if there are a several riders in a group. Everybody gets on the same page. There's probably an equiv. feature on Android.
 
If you have the traffic receiver turned on, I think it assumes that you want it to route you around any build up of traffic. If you turn the option off, then it won't. There are a number of settings realting to Traffic; Current Provider; Subscriptions; Optimise Route; Traffic Alerts.
There seems a difference/bug existing:
- backlash/traffic jam: the unit warns and prompts a [recalculate Y/N?]
- road closed ahead: the unit forcibly recalculates with no user prompt/indication, plus dumps all shaping points

Not owning/operating the unit myself I cannot proof/false such reports, but I'm always amazed about how much grieve the "new improved models" can cause while out on a ride...
I'd some encounters during group rides, been shouted at at called rude names cause their fancy new kit screwed up, whilst my primitive stuff just clocked along...

People want all the bells'n'whistles cause it's cool, the glossy pamphlet PR promises "superiority over other humans/increased mating chances"...

I'm old school, Michelin paper-maps for the general overview, the trusty Toshiba NB510 netbook with MapSource to plot my routes en-detail, the dumb old Quest-I to lay the course while on the bike... and the scratched, worn down thing doesn't miss a beat out there...
(BTW: did I mention having a wired intercom?! I mean: no pairing-woes, just turn the key and go, how odd is that?...)

One need to sift through the postings, a good number of folks are competent, many just want to vent and rant though...

 
I want an iOS nav app that can open on an iPad ('cause I like my phone small).
In my understanding the XT generation is on the verge of that; it can receive and execute routes from your smartphone/tabloid app, but there still some issues of course, due the various standards, parameters and variables in such...

From a pure financial POV any smartphone app can almost fulfill all routing requirements FOC, but there issues about display visibility, weather protection, operation with gloved hands and especially battery life with most phones...
A real bike satnav is rigid, waterproof, drop resistant (milspec), comes with a bike-powered cradle, can be operated with wet gloves, features a decent visibility, can digest various routing formats, provides connections for aux GPS antennas, PC connection, power and audio, etc... but these days those thingies cost a fortune, are loaded with various issues and, like computers, are already outdated upon their release...
And IMO are they designed by software-nerds and not long distance/endurance riders anymore...
Being "hip" and loaded with the newest features might reach more consumers, but when the going gets tough while heading down the road provide quite different requirements...
 
there issues about display visibility, weather protection, operation with gloved hands and especially battery life with most phones...
As with any device issues often arise from failure to appreciate the application of said device. One man's issues are another man's considered and preferred fitment.

ST1100Y said:
A real bike satnav is...
Don't care what somebody else thinks is a "real" satnav. I said I didn't want to start a debate but I shoulda known someone would feel the need.

If I needed a "real" satnav I wouldn't have stated what I did. The software-nerd/hip/real subtext IMNSHO is just passive-aggressive subtext for compensation.
 
I ordered the Zumo XT yesterday from Garmin. Hope I get as much enjoyment from it as I have my trusty Zumo 550.
My 550 is still working fine, I got caught in very heavy downpours, lightning and wind last weekend on my bike.
When cleaning & drying it I noticed that the thin film on the display was worn through in the areas that I press the screen the most.
Also, previously I had put some black silicone around the rubbery features buttons that were cracking. Still as I said it is still working great.
Time for a change though. Will give feedback after I've had some miles with the new XT.
 
And IMO are they designed by software-nerds and not long distance/endurance riders anymore...
Being "hip" and loaded with the newest features might reach more consumers, but when the going gets tough while heading down the road provide quite different requirements...
That's true with most computer software development (been at almost 50 years) - most of the folks writing the stuff have never used it in the 'real' world and are clueless about some of the decisions they make in development. Having been in technology since we moved up from the stone tablets, I prefer my functions (music, phone, GPS, etc.) to be handled by separate devices - hopefully ones designed for that specific function. That way if one dies, you don't lose everything and you don't pay a boatload of money when the multi-device loses 1 function and you have to replace it. But then I still carry my old flip phone - which works just fine for making phone calls ... ;)
 
I just installed a Zumo XT on my Africa Twin yesterday. I had been using a TomTom Rider550 for the last year. The TomTom was a great GPS, well made and full of features but I wanted to be able to display TOPO maps and the TomTom could not. I would have to say that the overall quality of the TomTom seems better than the Zumo XT and I liked the mount on the TomTom much better. The Zumo mount and power connections seem a little cheap and it looks like making a locking mount would be impossible on the Zumo XT. As far as functionality goes the Zumo XT will do everything I need including having offroad mapping. The screen is absolutely fantastic - the best screen on any device I have ever seen. Sunlight is no problem with this screen. The touch control is also very good with gloves. The screen alone makes using this a pleasure compared to past GPS devices I've used. I also like that you only need to pair your phone and headseat directly to the Zumo for it to operate everything including music streaming from your phone. No pairing your headset with the phone at all. It is nice to control all your music controls directly from the Zumo. I stream my phone's music as well as XM radio from my phone through the Zumo. Overall I am satisfied with the Zumo XT. Did I mention that the screen is great!

Dan
 
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