ST1300 Clutch Lever and Pipe Leak

[Igofar]

@CYYJ
Thank you for this picture, it confirms my choice to get this done by a real mechanic.

@ST Gui
Its down to 3 bars. Think ill have those lines replaced as well as a new air filter

Have a couple Valium on hand when they tell you what its going to cost. If your having a shop do it, I'd also let them do the slave cylinder, since your ham size fists will probably be too big to reach in there to do the job.
Have them show you in writing, both the quote, and the flat rate hourly book, just to make sure they are not ripping you off too much.
Get the quote in hand, and post it here on the forum, and we'll be able to help you negotiate the BS out of it for you, and steer you into a more honest quote before you give them the go-ahead to start working on it.

 

[AV8R]

Called two Honda Service Centers, and got vastly different quotes:
1. $200
I questioned this as from the picture I explained what had to be removed and the service mgr said they haven’t done one before but bring it in for a quote

2. 3-5 hours
He said in 7 years on his watch, hes only seen this happen 2-3 times. Happens in the same place as mine. He also said the same thing IGO said about dropping the engine to replace the slave. I said thanks, ill do that part. He was just quoting their labor manual, that had nothing for clutch pipe replacement.

So obviously im going to flat bed my bike to #2. 3-5 hours sounds right to me from a shop perspective.

I may check with my local bike shop guy and see if he feels comfortable doing this. He actually does work for me for free (i force money in his hand anyways)... its a brotherhood relationship thing. If hes not comfortable doing this (he’s primarily HD guy, but does have the books on Hondas and does GW for buddies), then ill go to Honda.

Buddy says hed loved to do it for me if i can wait 2-3 weeks due to his workload. Cant wait that long, so it’s Honda #2

 

[Igofar]

Called two Honda Service Centers, and got vastly different quotes:
1. $200
I questioned this as from the picture I explained what had to be removed and the service mgr said they haven’t done one before but bring it in for a quote

2. 3-5 hours
He said in 7 years on his watch, hes only seen this happen 2-3 times. Happens in the same place as mine. He also said the same thing IGO said about dropping the engine to replace the slave. I said thanks, ill do that part. He was just quoting their labor manual, that had nothing for clutch pipe replacement.

So obviously im going to flat bed my bike to #2. 3-5 hours sounds right to me from a shop perspective.

I may check with my local bike shop guy and see if he feels comfortable doing this. He actually does work for me for free (i force money in his hand anyways)... its a brotherhood relationship thing. If hes not comfortable doing this (he’s primarily HD guy, but does have the books on Hondas and does GW for buddies), then ill go to Honda.

Buddy says hed loved to do it for me if i can wait 2-3 weeks due to his workload. Cant wait that long, so it’s Honda #2

That wouldn't be the same HD guy who bled, or tried to bleed your brakes, without following the correct procedure? I'd think you would be safer getting ripped off from the dealership, at least it would just be wasted money, instead of incorrect work (not saying the dealership would even do it correctly )
The first quote was the "bait and switch" method, tell the customer something cheap just to get him in the door, then explain it will cost three times as much when he's there.
They are banking on the fact, you won't be able to pull the vehicle back out due to having to tow it there to begin with, and know you'll be stuck there and just have to deal with it.
The second quote is still padding the deal quite a bit and giving them alot of room to Explain to you after they have it apart, that they will need to do alot more than they thought, and you'll have to deal with it at that point etc. Even on a PD motor, and having to remove the crash bars, lights, siren, etc., you can still pull the tank, and left side cover off in about an hour going slow and taking your time. Replacing the slave cylinder takes about a half hour to R/R, (without dropping the engine) with the exception of scraping off the gasket, which can take several hours when done correctly, however, dealerships will normally just put a new gasket in and not bother cleaning off the old gasket.
Removing the old line is two banjo bolts, and a couple of P clamps that hold it where it is routed. We'll be very generous and say it can be R/R in an hour etc.
I would think an honest mechanic could do the Job in three hours or less.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Larry:

I have never done the clutch slave cylinder or replaced the clutch line. I would have assumed that the CSC is the more difficult of the two jobs. Between the two which job do you think is the most difficult? If a person is going to do the CSC himself does it make sense to just do the clutch line as well? Just hoping you can give a little perspective for my benefit and to possibly help him with the decision about what to do.

 

[Igofar]

I just called a local Honda dealership near me, that has been here for 58 years, and still has several old school type mechanics.
I explained it was a police motor, crash bars, siren, lights, etc.
He explained that it was a simple matter of 2 banjo bolts, a couple p-clamps, removing just the left side body panel, lifting the tank, and the slave cylinder could be done without dropping the engine, by placing the bike on the side stand (where did I hear that before?)
He said 1.5 to 2.0 hours should do it.
I would call a couple different dealerships, and get some more quotes before you tow your bike across town.
I'm pretty sure I know which dealerships you contacted, and they are known to be very proud of their service departments PD accounts and charge service a little bit on the high side.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

He said 1.5 to 2.0 hours should do it.

For both the slave cylinder and the clutch line? That sounds like a really good estimate- almost not worth doing it yourself at that price.

 

[Igofar]

Larry:

I have never done the clutch slave cylinder or replaced the clutch line. I would have assumed that the CSC is the more difficult of the two jobs. Between the two which job do you think is the most difficult? If a person is going to do the CSC himself does it make sense to just do the clutch line as well? Just hoping you can give a little perspective for my benefit and to possibly help him with the decision about what to do.

Andrew, I'd say the CSC is would be a little easier to do. on a PD bike, you could simply lay the bike on its side on the lawn, carpet, or a couple used car tires, and have total access to the unit.
A 1/4 inch socket set with flex heads and swivel sockets (not swivel adaptor) or a flex head 12mm ratcheting wrench would be most of the tools needed. I find it easier to work on the side stand, pull the oil filter (you'll only loose a small amount of oil) and pull the speed sensor switch (2- 8mm head bolts) this gives you alot of room to see and work. I would suggest doing both jobs-CSC and Line at the same time, so you don't have to bleed it twice etc. Replacing the line is very simple IF your comfortable removing/replacing the left side panel and lifting the tank. As stated, its simply two banjo bolts, 4 washers, and removing a couple plastic p-clamps, then following the routing of the line. If I had to take a guess, I would say an owner would have a better chance with the CSC (after reading the article). The OP has stated that he has no time, nor comfort digging this deep into the job.
He may have a better chance, and more realistic quote if he gets away from the Valley dealerships.

 

[AV8R]

Is there a step by step online procedure on removing the left side upper Tupperware?
These aren’t cheap and I don’t want to break it.

 

[Igofar]

Is there a step by step online procedure on removing the left side upper Tupperware?
These aren’t cheap and I don’t want to break it.

I'm on my way out the door, but if you call me later this afternoon, or tonight, I'll explain to you in detail what to remove, and what to watch out for as far as braking stuff.
The hardest thing you'll have to do, is removing the left side crash bar, siren if you still have one, and unplugging all the electrical stuff you have added, this just takes more time.
Call me tonight, I'll talk you through it when your doing it, then you can trailer the bike in without the body work on, and maybe save a couple hours labor.

 

[AV8R]

If I go, Mr IGo, as far as removing the left side plastic; then how much more effort to put in the clutch pipe?

 

[SupraSabre]

If it was my bike:
-I would go buy a HF lift ($300 with coupon), -But I already have a lift, so....

-Put the bike on the lift, use the front vise to hold the front tire/bike upright while strapping down the backend without it on the centerstand.
-Take the tupperware off left & right,
-get a small bucket or something to sit on,
-Remove the mufflers.
-Remove the headers
-remove the centerstand (The headers have to be off to remove the centerstand)
-Remove the clutchslave
-Replace the clutchline (you'll probably have to lift or remove the tank before doing this. (One thing I haven't done yet is to replace a clutchline!
-Replace the clutchslave
-Refill/flush the clutch/slave
-Good time to clean off the engine with the headers off
-replace the centerstand
-Replace the headers
-replace the mufflers
-replace the L&R tupperware

You should be back in business!

 

[AV8R]

If that’s the case off to the Service Station!

 

[fnmag]

If that’s the case off to the Service Station!

Yeah, easy peasy. A 10 minute task.

 

[CYYJ]

Is there a step by step online procedure on removing the left side upper Tupperware?

See Chapter 2 of the Service Manual, which is entitled "Body Panels". There are 35 pages of illustrated instructions there that show you how to take everything apart in the correct sequence. Every fastener and panel is identified in an illustration. It is very well written and truly "step-by-step".

See also this post: ST1300 - TupperWare Worksheet, which is extraordinarily helpful. Download and print the diagrams.

If you are taking all the panels off for the first time, it's helpful to go get a muffin pan or one of the boxes that a dozen eggs are sold in, and a little pad of sticky notes - use one cup in the muffin pan to hold the fasteners from each body part, and put a number (sequence of disassembly) on each body part or cup with the fasteners. That will ensure that you re-assemble in the reverse order from disassembly, and it will also ensure that if you "miss" a fastener (have one leftover), it will be obvious before you start putting the next body panel back on.

Michael

 

[AV8R]

Ill have parts tomorrow. Ill talk to Service Manager again and see what he thinks about it being a couple of hour job. In the perfect world, it probably is, but for a rare fix as this, im sure it will go 3-4. But i want it limited on paper.

 

[Igofar]

If it was my bike:
-I would go buy a HF lift ($300 with coupon), -But I already have a lift, so....

-Put the bike on the lift, use the front vise to hold the front tire/bike upright while strapping down the backend without it on the centerstand.
-Take the tupperware off left & right,
-get a small bucket or something to sit on,
-Remove the mufflers.
-Remove the headers
-remove the centerstand (The headers have to be off to remove the centerstand)
-Remove the clutchslave
-Replace the clutchline (you'll probably have to lift or remove the tank before doing this. (One thing I haven't done yet is to replace a clutchline!
-Replace the clutchslave
-Refill/flush the clutch/slave
-Good time to clean off the engine with the headers off
-replace the centerstand
-Replace the headers
-replace the mufflers
-replace the L&R tupperware

You should be back in business!

Now what did I tell you about taking short cuts

 

[Igofar]

Ill have parts tomorrow. Ill talk to Service Manager again and see what he thinks about it being a couple of hour job. In the perfect world, it probably is, but for a rare fix as this, im sure it will go 3-4. But i want it limited on paper.

I don't know about a perfect world, or the primadonna's they have working at your silicone valley dealership, do they make you an expresso with a little lemon twist while you wait
I've been told by some customers who used to go there, that it was like the art gallery on beverly hills cop.
This is not a "rare" fix, but a rather a commonly seen issue (search the forum here and you'll probably find a couple)
IF all you were expecting was the quality of service the dealership would provide you, I'd bet you a $100 dollar bill that I could have that line replaced in less than two hours, and with the CSC three hours max.
However, IF I took your bike hostage, you probably would not see it for a few weeks, and I assure you that I would find ALL kinds of stuff that would need to be repaired or replaced.
Its a good thing I live this far away from you, because I wouldn't take all the short cuts Bob listed in the prior response....just ask anyone who's gotten their bike back after I snatched it from them
I hope you get your bike fixed soon, let us know what the service manager says on the phone, then if it changes once they get a hold of the bike, and then again, after they dig into it and find out its going to take much longer than they thought.
If your AAA towing covers 100 miles, I'd look around at some different dealerships for more quotes before I surrendered my bike.

 

[CYYJ]

I'll have parts tomorrow. Ill talk to Service Manager again and see what he thinks about it being a couple of hour job. In the perfect world, it probably is, but for a rare fix as this, I'm sure it will go 3-4.

It would probably be a 2 hour job for Larry, because Larry specializes in the ST series of motorcycles. He's an acknowledged expert on these two particular models (1100 and 1300).

Personally, I think that for a Honda dealership motorcycle mechanic of average skill and experience, 3 hours would be quite reasonable. ST's are not common motorcycles. The work to replace the clutch hose/pipe is pretty straightforward, but the disassembly and reassembly of the ST is not something that you would expect the average mechanic to be 'highly familiar' with. The clutch hydraulic system will need to be flushed after the new hose is installed. Plus, you would reasonably expect the mechanic to take it for a test ride after that work is done, to make sure all is well, and that likely takes about 20 or 30 minutes including prep time.

Michael

 

[Andrew Shadow]

but the disassembly and reassembly of the ST is not something that you would expect the average mechanic to be 'highly familiar' with.

If you decide to farm the job out you should really consider removing all of the Tupperware on the left side before you bring it in to save yourself the labour for that.

 

[Trapperdog]

It would probably be a 2 hour job for Larry, because Larry specializes in the ST series of motorcycles. He's an acknowledged expert on these two particular models (1100 and 1300).

Personally, I think that for a Honda dealership motorcycle mechanic of average skill and experience, 3 hours would be quite reasonable. ST's are not common motorcycles. The work to replace the clutch hose/pipe is pretty straightforward, but the disassembly and reassembly of the ST is not something that you would expect the average mechanic to be 'highly familiar' with. The clutch hydraulic system will need to be flushed after the new hose is installed. Plus, you would reasonably expect the mechanic to take it for a test ride after that work is done, to make sure all is well, and that likely takes about 20 or 30 minutes including prep time.

Michael

Actually it would be a two day job for Larry. He’d remove all the plastics and tank and sync the TB’s, clean out the 5 way tee, clean and tighten all the hoses, bleed the brakes, etc, etc, and then clean the engine before reassembling. Trust me