As a self professed PM kind of guy, who religiously keeps the coolant changed frequently (?), your pump may never need to be changed out. To change out a functioning, non leaking pump in that case seems a waste of those dollars to me.
Water pump fitment
- Thread starter Jim Van
- Start date
As a self professed PM kind of guy, who religiously keeps the coolant changed frequently (?), your pump may never need to be changed out. To change out a functioning, non leaking pump in that case seems a waste of those dollars to me.
OP
OP
It would be cheap insurance, especially if I'm in the middle of a 3,000 mile ride 1,500 miles from home. PM means replacement before failure.
And if your luck is anything like mine, be prepared now for your pump to fail in the near future at the most un-opportune time
.
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John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
Jim, that's a great project you've taken on. It would be great to be able to just replace leaking ST1100 water pump seals for a reasonable cost, versus having to buy a whole unit.
Please document your (hopefully successful) efforts.
Regards, John
via iPhone6
Please document your (hopefully successful) efforts.
Regards, John
via iPhone6
My luck might be better than yours, as the pump on my previous '95 model failed a number of years ago (started showing a leak) whilst I was doing winter PM in my garage! That one was my fault though, not the pump's, as I had used a silicate laced coolant for the first few years, before learning that silicate cleaning agents spelled death to the water pump seal.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
I concur with John there.
Not long and the last NOS ST1100 w/pumps on this planet will be used up, and then we'll need a reliable way to get that issue addressed.
So parts list and sources would be just brilliant.
(...currently refurbing a '76 CB500 four K2... what an egg hunt for +40 year old parts that is...)
OP
OP
John :
Besides replacing the seal , I recommend also replacing the bearing / shaft assembly at the same time since if the sel is leaking that means antifreeze will probably have gotten into the bearings by then.
I have already thought about your requirements
and have started taking some pics. I also came up with a simple ( and cheap ) idea to fabricate a seal installation tool by using a piece of 1" pipe and a 12mm fender washer. I'll take some pics of that too. The unitized seal needs to have an "installed height" of 0.35 " . That's the distance between the lip of the cup ( at the one end ) and the end of the seal ( at the other end ). The cup end presses into the water pump housing under the impeller. Like I mentioned in a previous post, a unitized seal is superior to the OEM style two-piece seal.I also have a different ( Make / model ) water pump on order from RockAuto. I'm hoping the cast impeller from this pump may not need to be turned down like the impeller on the Gates Civic pump does. But another option would be to use the Airtex Civic pump. Since it has a stamped steel impeller ( similar to the OEM ST1100 ) , the vanes can be easily be trimmed with a cut-off disk to fit the ST1100 pump housing. But I would like to use a cast iron impeller since they are suppose to be superior. I think they would cavitate less and use less power at high RPM's.
I will post pics and parts numbers, etc. in a week or two after I have the pump from dwalby rebuild. I have the bearing/shaft installed and the drive pulley installed at this point. I'm waiting on the seals I ordered from Ebay and I need to weld the seal installation tool parts together ( with a few spot welds using my MIG welder) and have the impeller diameter turned down 0.13 " .
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Looking forward to your complete report/pictures Jim.
And that speaks to my point about the unnecessary changing of a functioning water pump. Someday, an ST1100 owner WILL need to replace a leaking pump and find none available and also not be in a position, or place, to repair it themselves. For those intent on replacing a working unit "just because", I suggest they keep the old pump as a life saver for someone else.
If Jim's project works maybe he, or others equipped with the tools, would like to be the STOwners water pump repairers and offer the service for a small fee - or even the price of a NOS pump. There is also the question about sourcing the gasket, not mentioned as yet.
ST1100Y
Site Supporter
Well, the "just because" happens at a high mileage, preferable while replacing the t/belt (we do preventive due fear of an engine grenade), to avoid ending up with coolant pouring out the engine on some lonesome mountain road...
In this I don't care if I get a parts kit, a reconditioned item or an OEM spare (in which MFGs are to blame in the first place for not producing anymore)...
The strategy in which "they" rather have us buying a new bike/vehicle, latest every 12 months, is a different, quite complicated issue...
OP
OP
Actually, after I get dwalby's donated pump rebuilt, I will be looking for someone who is ready for a pump replacement to do a "test fit" to make sure the cast impeller rotates without interference on the engine block. I really don't want to wait two years before my pump needs a PM replacement. I'm not too worried about any interference , but before I can definitely say the cast impeller is a winner, it would have to pass this test.
OP
OP
UPDATE :
The seals I bought from Ebay were the wrong seal. It fit on a 12mm shaft but the "cup" end was for a 33mm bearing, not the 30mm like I needed.
But the good news is I found a source for the proper seals - Kellogg Automotive in AZ. They rebuild pumps and also sell parts. I called them today and they were very helpful. I have 4 seals on order.
I also found a manufacturer in China ( KYLIN ) that makes the proper seal. They would supply me with the seal at a good per piece price, but there was a 50 quantity minimum. If there was a bunch of us that needed to rebuild their pumps that would be a viable option as a source for seals.
I also now have 3 impellers to do a test fit on - one stamped steel, one cast iron with separate vanes, and a third that is cast iron with a circular impeller with vanes being an integral part of the casting. All three need to be reduced in diameter by about 0.13 " to fit the ST1100 water pump.
My plan now is to pull and replace my pump in the spring and test fit dwalby's and my (rebuilt) pump to make sure there is no interference between the trimmed impellers and the engine.
If anyone has an old pump, I could rebuild it with one of the three impellers I now have and be able to test fit all three impellers when I replace my pump in the spring. I'll pay for postage.
The seals I bought from Ebay were the wrong seal. It fit on a 12mm shaft but the "cup" end was for a 33mm bearing, not the 30mm like I needed.
But the good news is I found a source for the proper seals - Kellogg Automotive in AZ. They rebuild pumps and also sell parts. I called them today and they were very helpful. I have 4 seals on order.
I also found a manufacturer in China ( KYLIN ) that makes the proper seal. They would supply me with the seal at a good per piece price, but there was a 50 quantity minimum. If there was a bunch of us that needed to rebuild their pumps that would be a viable option as a source for seals.
I also now have 3 impellers to do a test fit on - one stamped steel, one cast iron with separate vanes, and a third that is cast iron with a circular impeller with vanes being an integral part of the casting. All three need to be reduced in diameter by about 0.13 " to fit the ST1100 water pump.
My plan now is to pull and replace my pump in the spring and test fit dwalby's and my (rebuilt) pump to make sure there is no interference between the trimmed impellers and the engine.
If anyone has an old pump, I could rebuild it with one of the three impellers I now have and be able to test fit all three impellers when I replace my pump in the spring. I'll pay for postage.
OP
OP
I think they probably could, but my goal is for us to be able to do the rebuild ourselves. It's fairly easy to do with a press & two jaw puller.
Give them a call to find out for sure 1-877-499-2011 . Please let us know what you find out , if you call.
Give them a call to find out for sure 1-877-499-2011 . Please let us know what you find out , if you call.
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Jim Van,
It was my intention to buy a new water pump for my ST1100 that I removed but find that its not that easy to find a new one ( and the prohibitive cost).
Another solution is to find a repair kit (if they are available) and find someone local with a small press.
Being an ex Toolmaker I am capable of doing the job but have no press.
Perhaps you or a fellow STer may know if a repair kit is available.
Thanks, \
Graham Watson
John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
Edit: Graham, that post of Jim’s is 4 years old. There have been some developments since then...
Here’s the AOW article about the rebuild. The Ebay link therein to the rebuild parts kit is still current. HTH
John
Here’s the AOW article about the rebuild. The Ebay link therein to the rebuild parts kit is still current. HTH
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John,
Once again, thanks for that info regarding the water pump.
As an aside, I’m surprised that no supplier is in the U.S. as I’m sure there were more STs sold in the U.S. than in the U.K.
Happybikes.co.uk sell the kit U.K. price £49.99 inc.post.
World price is £68.99 inc.post.
Fortunately for me, (rather a long story) I am in N.C. but my wife is in England at our house but she is coming over here on Dec.3rd and so I shall have the kit sent to my address in England and she can bring it over, that way I’ll save about $25 on shipping!
I can see you scratching your head over that one!
I called HapBikes and left a message as before I order, I want to make sure that the kit fits my 2000 ST as I am unsure if there is any difference between the old ST and newer STs.
Regards,
Graham Watson
P.S.———I called my local Honda dealer and was quoted $311.04 inc.tax for a new pump.
Once again, thanks for that info regarding the water pump.
As an aside, I’m surprised that no supplier is in the U.S. as I’m sure there were more STs sold in the U.S. than in the U.K.
Happybikes.co.uk sell the kit U.K. price £49.99 inc.post.
World price is £68.99 inc.post.
Fortunately for me, (rather a long story) I am in N.C. but my wife is in England at our house but she is coming over here on Dec.3rd and so I shall have the kit sent to my address in England and she can bring it over, that way I’ll save about $25 on shipping!
I can see you scratching your head over that one!
I called HapBikes and left a message as before I order, I want to make sure that the kit fits my 2000 ST as I am unsure if there is any difference between the old ST and newer STs.
Regards,
Graham Watson
P.S.———I called my local Honda dealer and was quoted $311.04 inc.tax for a new pump.
John OoSTerhuis
Life Is Good!
The rebuild kit applies to all years’ water pumps. There are three versions of water pumps (‘91, ‘92-‘95, ‘96-02), but only for crankcase breather and oil-cooler functions, NOT the pulley/impeller which is identical in all pumps.
Hope you don’t have to wait too long to get your ST up and running. Please keep us poSTed/follow-up. TIA
Regards, John
John,
I called the pump repair guy but got no answer and I didn’t leave a call back number ——-I just left a message that I would call back later.
30 mins later whilst brushing my teeth and a mouthful of frothing toothpaste!——-the guy called me from Scotland and gave me the same info that you gave me about the pump.
I paid for it and when El Wifo comes here, I shall do the job.
I shall order new seals, gaskets etc. from my local Honda dealer.
I was surprised that there are 2 Happybikes in the U.K. ——-the one in Scotland and one in London.
I initially rang the London tel. number and he didn’t know WTH I was talking about!
Regards,
Graham
I called the pump repair guy but got no answer and I didn’t leave a call back number ——-I just left a message that I would call back later.
30 mins later whilst brushing my teeth and a mouthful of frothing toothpaste!——-the guy called me from Scotland and gave me the same info that you gave me about the pump.
I paid for it and when El Wifo comes here, I shall do the job.
I shall order new seals, gaskets etc. from my local Honda dealer.
I was surprised that there are 2 Happybikes in the U.K. ——-the one in Scotland and one in London.
I initially rang the London tel. number and he didn’t know WTH I was talking about!
Regards,
Graham
Actually, there were far more sold in the UK and Europe. Many police forces over there used them. Also, the folks in the UK and Europe got as many as three colour choices every model year of production, while North America had no choice each year, except for the first year sold here (1991), when we got either Black or Sparkling Silver Metallic, like John's pride and joy.
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Bush,
Your right about that—more STs in the EU, of course.
I have noticed that in Europe, they seem to have a larger variety of colour choice.
Regarding colour choice, mine is unusual in that it is pink!
It was originally maroon but the sun has got to it.
Probably round about 2000, the UK police scrapped all their STs because they said they were inherently dangerous after at least 2 cops were killed after experiencing tank slappers and the investigators said it was the bikes fault whilst Honda UK said it was probably because of uneven weight distribution of police equipment.
Thanks for the mail,
Graham