Any Lithium Ion Battery Fans?

[TPadden]

I'll ask this again... I only see disadvantages for the LI battery. What's the advantage for use in an ST, what am I missing?

Paul,

As has been mentioned: weight, size, more consistent and greater cranking power, more charge/ discharge cycles, and low discharge rate resulting in long shelf life. Yes there are also some disadvantages but you didn't ask about them. $$$

The small size and power means for those blessed with multiple bikes one size fits all. I can keep one charged on the shelf and it will fit (with foam), and work well in every one of my bikes. I've been replacing every OEM battery in my bikes as they die with lithium for years and have yet to have one fail.

Tom

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Lifepo4 battery refers to a lithium-ion battery using lithium iron phosphate as a electrode material, which has high safety performance and cycle life.

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[Andrew Shadow]

A ST1300 has lots of parasitic drainage due to its ECU and clock.

Clock yes as it stays active, but the ECM would surprise me. ECM's often power down a few seconds after the vehicle has been turned off and offer no drain.
Does the ST1300 ECM continue to draw power after the ignition has been turned off?

 

[jdmccright]

I've had a Li-ion battery in my bike for a few years. As long as I run it once every few months or put it on a charger, it cranks okay. If I forget and it sits for more than 3 months, it drops too low to crank it. And if it goes DEAD-dead, there is a safety circuit that requires a "jump" voltage to reset it. Finally, they require a charger that will charge them properly; regular old AGM chargers are inappropriate.

Frankly, aside from the slight drop in weight, there's no significant advantage to having one. You can buy a more reliable AGM battery for as much or less than a Li-ion.

 

[Duporth]

I had Li-ion in my FJR and currently (ha!) in my ST. They have been excellent, no probs at all. My ST batt is now 5 years old.
Can I say Li-ion is a better batt than Lead? Nope, but they are fine.
D

 

[bdalameda]

Lithium Fan

 

[Tenmilsocket]

Spring of '20 I bought a failed "project" CB450 for parts and it included a Li-ion in the tub of parts. No idea how long it sat in that guy's garage but I was having issues with the AGM in my FJR this spring and dropped it in just to see if it would work. Didn't even bother to put on the charging pigtail because I really didn't think it would last long but haven't had a single issue yet. You do have to wake it up when it's cold out, last week it wouldn't crank first try but spun it like normal the second. Advantage??? it's a lot smaller so I can access it with less plastic removal than the standard size battery that really fits tight. Can't speak to longevity and they need the right reg/rec charging voltage so YMMV.

 

[bdalameda]

I have a factory installed lithium battery in my Africa Twin. I've had it now for almost 3 years with no issues. When the bike sat a couple of times for extended periods of time I would put it on a lithium battery charger to charge it. On both occasions the charger immediately stopped charging and showed that the battery was at full charge even though it had been sitting for months. So far it has worked well. I previously had two Shorai lithium iron batteries in my ST. While both batteries cranked well the slow drain of the clock would kill them over time and both batteries refused to take a charge after a couple of years. Having to charge the Shorai with their special battery charger was a pain as well. There are newer batteries such as the EarthX that have a built in battery management system that makes charging much easier as each cell is charge independently which is best for lithium batteries.

 

[ST1100Y]

Stumbled over them while browsing

NOCO - 500A Lithium Powersport Battery - NLP14

The NLP14 is a lithium powersport battery that delivers 500-amps of starting power for motorcycles, ATVs, UTVs, PWCs, and more.

no.co

They claim having fixed the cold start issue, appear very well and come for a pretty decent price too...
Anyone used them yet?
I've to admit that I'm tempted...

 

[wjbertrand]

If it were available 2+ years ago when I bought my Scorpion Li battery, I'd probably go for this NOCO one today. More amps (500 vs. 387), cheaper price, known name with good reputation.

 

[DeanR]

Would this NOCO require their own charger?
Would my Deltran Battery Tender Jr chargers work?

 

[Andrew Shadow]

They claim having fixed the cold start issue,

The instruction state:
In extremely cold temperatures, the battery may be slow to provide power initially. If this occurs, attempt to start the equipment again.
Repeated attempts will self-heat the lithium cells and allow them to provide sufficient power ......

Is this not the same as what other Lithium battery manufacturers recommend as well? Or is there something else that I didn't see.

Looks like a good option however. If I didn't have a fairly new battery, I would consider it.
500 starting amps is good for the ST1300.

 

[Larry Fine]

Is this not the same as what other Lithium battery manufacturers recommend as well? Or is there something else that I didn't see.

They told you to run the headlights for a few minutes first.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

They told you to run the headlights for a few minutes first.

Correct you are.
This manufacturers recommendation achieves the same thing as burning the headlights, which is warming up the battery, via a different method. The original problem lithium batteries have, which is its ability to deliver sufficient power at low ambient temperatures, still remains. I am at a loss to see where they have fixed the cold start issue.

This recommendation to crank the engine over as a means to warm the battery may actually be worse. Repeated failed attempts at starting a cold engine until the battery has sufficiently warmed up to provide enough cranking power could result in a flooded engine. Burning the headlights to warm up the battery seems to be a more prudent approach.

 

[SMSW]

I am at a loss to see where they have fixed the cold start issue.

Obviously, they have not. Describing the same thing two different ways is still the same thing. Lithium cells have to be warm enough to deliver the power for which they are famous.

One thing nobody has mentioned about Shorai batteries, is the mfr's recommendation to discharge the battery (using their charger) to 60% of capacity for long term storage. It is my impression (don't remember what they said) that this was for a 3 month or longer period of disuse of your motorcycle, car, whatever. Either everyone out there is doing this or nobody reads the instructions (or Shorai is the only one suggesting it) and this 40% discharge for storage is widely ignored.

 

[David Fyffe]

I checked the dimensions on this battery.
It will not fit the ST1300, unless I missed something.

 

[ST1100Y]

More amps (500 vs. 387), cheaper price, known name with good reputation.

My GF's NT700VA seems a bit power sensitive, with a gel type batt installed it took 2~3 clicks till it finally turned over
I recovered the gel type and it showed 12.7V ?!
Installed an AGM I had in storage instead which showed 12.8V, and the NT cranked instantly without any hesitation...
Seems the gel type must suffer some internal resistance... the Optimate however claims it's 100% OK...
Some more amps avail will spin that V-2 with more punch...

Would this NOCO require their own charger?

AIFAIK do all LiPo batts require a specified charger for best/quick charging...

They told you to run the headlights for a few minutes first.

Customer feedback claims excellent starting power at temps below freezing...
On the NT the headlights are hardwired, which is a good warm up consumer, on the ST1100 you have the fuel pump and other items that come to life first...

It will not fit the ST1300, unless I missed something.

There is a whole planet out there with other motorcycles then a 1300...


I'd like to solve the issue of having to replace conventional batteries every two years...
It would also be nice if those LiPo cells survive like 4~5 weeks downtime in the hangar without going fully flat...

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I'd like to solve the issue of having to replace conventional batteries every two years...
It would also be nice if those LiPo cells survive like 4~5 weeks downtime in the hangar without going fully flat...

Martin;
Two things about this statement have made me curious. I have no idea what average Yuasa battery life is but, based on my personal experience with my two ST1100's, a two year battery life seems very short. I was wondering what is causing you to see a short battery life.

I didn't check to see, and I really don't know, but I had the impression that the weather where you are is similar to what I have here in Québec.
i.e. Prolonged down season during the winter where the motorcycle is not being ridden. Following that are summer months where it gets in to the mid 30's Celsius. For the most part over the course of the summer however, it usually does not exceed 30, heat being really hard on the longevity of lead acid batteries.

If the above is the case, under these conditions, I always got at least five years of service life out of my Yuasa ST1100 batteries. The same pattern seems to be true for my Yuasa ST1300 batteries, five years for the first one, and since 2017 for the second one.

The second thing is that a battery not being able to start the motorcycle, let alone going fully flat, after only 4 or 5 weeks of down time I would not consider to be normal battery behaviour. For this to be the case would seem to indicate that there is a drain on the battery.

 

[ST1100Y]

... I had the impression that the weather where you are is similar to what I have here in Québec...

Riding since '92 I concur on the original 5~6 year lifespan of an MC battery... till the change of the millennium...
New environmental regulations like RoHS forced changes in the used materials & compositions... not even car batteries will last longer then 2~3 years...
One might get a bit more if it's a daily driver, but job schedules and climate conditions do not support such...

Except a car stereo the ST1100 is OEM, clock and station memory will easily flat a YTX14H-BS within 6 weeks...
Except HISS and clock the NT700VA has no consumers in standby, again, in 6 weeks it's YTZ14-S is as well dead as a door-nail...
Sub-level garage in the building has no outlets, hence no options to attach battery tenders...
So I'm juggling 2 batteries for each motorcycle, hence chargers and backup batteries are permanent residents in my kitchen

Still, need to purchase one new battery for either bike once a year, as one either fails holding charge or won't reach full voltage while charging...
Ergo I'm in search of something more reliable...

 

[Pop-Pop]

Thanks to all! I bought a AGM.

 

[ST Gui]

So I'm juggling 2 batteries for each motorcycle

Li batteries' lower weight would be a distinct advantage in juggling.