My maintenance and upgrades

[Gus1300]

Haven't ever had the calipers off/apart.

2024 update: Well, I've finally taken apart the calipers for the first time since owning the bike. As expected, there was some crud in the front calipers, mostly the left, and most likely due to earlier when I had let the fluids get too old. The SMC has always passed the 'spin the rear tire and compress the piston' check both with stopping the rear tire AND releasing it again, so I assumed it was good. I can't get the boot off to see what it looks like inside, but the piston compresses and doesn't return to it's fully sprung position (free play by the piston rod and U-shaped connector after being compressed) for quite a while, so I'm sure it's dirty inside. I'll probably take it apart eventually to verify, but am almost certain sure what I'll find. I'm going to put the new one on and fully expect to see better braking, provided I can get all the air out of the system! (am aware of @jfheath's articles and have them at the ready, THANK YOU!)

While the bike is apart, I'm going to also knock out a few other punch list items:
- contemplating removing the old Audio Vox vacuum cruise control that no longer works (haven't yet ordered the McCruise version (but have permission to do so!) but not sure I want to get into the under-tank area; if so, I'll also verify the ignitor wiring remains and replace the air filter (which means I prob should...)
- tend to the fork leak that has manifested itself of late
- recharge the preload
- verify the front/rear wheel bearings are still good
- address the melted right knock sensor that may be contributory to the FI code I am living with on my second ECM
- attempt to reattach the Stuff Stopper front fender extension that came off after the previous try
- determine why the power outlet in the right glovebox isn't...um, powered
- fix the power to the alarm (not sure when these detached, but that's obviously why it's not working!)


...and whatever else I find along the way. I was hoping to be retired by now and take a trip this summer to go see the Whisperer in Tucson, but I guess I'll have to chance it and do it alone this time around. Besides, Larry has said he's retiring; maybe next year the trip will be to see the new Whisperer!

For the spin test, my front wheel went around 3 times both with the brake calipers on and with them removed, so they're releasing as designed. The rear wheel, however, barely goes around once, both with the caliper installed and with it removed, which makes me think there's something going on with the bearings or the final drive is dragging it down while spinning all that mass. Others haven't mentioned that though, so I suspect I have something else happening. I'll report back with what I find!

In the meantime, curious what the 'buildup' is from on the right fork:


The left has some too, but isn't as bad...or maybe it is? <sigh>


My suspicion is they have something to do with the fork leaks, as I didn't see any brake fluid leak (nor evidence of loss at the reservoir), but the buildup is heavier on the front side of the forks than the rear. Due to the direction of wheel spin in that area, I would think the location would be on the backside (receiving side) of any road dirt/grime/etc? Maybe when I get into the forks, the lack of fluid will verify; if the fluid levels are relatively equal, the mystery will still exist, at least for me.

I also found this part of the rim is bumped out (possibly related to the forks starting to leak?); my commute to work has some bumps and I vaguely recall having a hard front end hit a while ago, but didn't think it would do this to the rim. Noticed it during the wheel spin test.


Something else I need to read up on is how to get the old piston and dust seals out of the calipers; they look pretty flat and unless I use something sharp or pointed (very carefully, obviously!), it doesn't appear intuitively how to remove them. I have a couple new ones but since all the pistons look pretty good once cleaned up, I think they're fine. A few of the bleeder valves were teflon wrapped; I'll be cleaning them up and wrapping all upon replacement. I also bought a MotionPro bleeder and will see if that combined with my hand-pumped vacuum bleeder does the trick on an almost fully drained system.

Thanks for reading, and if you have any helpful comments (yes, I know the fluid was dirty!), I'll be glad to read them! And for those hesitant to dig into their own bikes, hopefully some of what I've provided here in the past, and with this latest mx, will help you to have the confidence that you too can do your own work as you learn about your bike and how to keep it healthy and operating at full capacity!



Later this afternoon:

Thanks @Willsmotorcycle, I do have a table, I wish I had a lift, and for the brake stuff, sitting on a stool was working fine. I did break out the table to have someplace to set the fork parts; problem is if I stand there too long, my back starts killing me (my son and I used it to swap his Prius C battery cells and I about couldn't stand by the time we were done!)

Took the forks off, got the right one apart fine, but the socket bolt at the bottom of the left is just spinning now that it's broken loose. I have tried the service manual suggestion about putting the spring and cap back on but it doesn't seem to be making any difference. Comparing it to the right fork, the inside piece spins independently from anything attached further up. Thoughts on how to get that socket bolt out would be extremely welcome!

I'll probably go ahead and get new seals, as well as guide and slider bushings. There's an uneven discoloration on the right ones (haven't seen the left ones yet...grrr!):


The right tube had 17.5 oz of fluid, compared to the left which had 18.5. I don't remember how much I filled them with, but the service manual provides a capacity of 22.5 oz or so. It looks used/old, not quite as dark as this picture makes it appear to be, but definitely not new 'red':


While I ponder how to get the socket bolt out, the rear wheel bearings feel good and the dampeners aren't that old so leaving those in for now. The rear ABS sensor was also in bad need of a cleaning:


Stopping for the night before I get too frustrated and do something irreversible trying to get the #*$@& socket bolt out!

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

and if you have any helpful comments

If I could recommend a cheap folding table, so much better than putting everything on the floor.

 

[Sadlsor]

2 ways to look at, as I see these tasks:

1. You have plenty to do on the bike, to keep you out of trouble for a good while.
2. You have plenty to do on the bike, to get you into plenty of trouble for a good while.

We would love to see regular updates on the progress.
And the challenges.
Are you done yet?

 

[jfheath]

I'm going to put the new one on and fully expect to see better braking, provided I can get all the air out of the system! (am aware of @jfheath's articles and have them at the ready, THANK YOU!)

You're welcome. You do realise that the article has not been tested to 135,000 miles ? (I assume your Avatar is in real time) But it HAS been used for my two bikes (70,000 previous and 66,000 current). So you're 1k within spec.

 

[jfheath]

Seals - I use a Dental probe. Poke the sharp pointy end straight into the rubber and winkle it out. Have something handy to put between the rubber and the piston wall so that it doesn't spring back in again.

That fluid is gungy. Take the inlet tube off the SMC and look inside. There is a cartridge - not something to pry out with a dental probe, it is fragile. But it contains a 2nd compensation port which is likely blocked. Note which way up the gauze is. And before you do that look at these images.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Maintenance - Photos of dismantled SMC | ST1300 Articles | ST-Owners.com

Also Larry posted an addition to that pushing a blockage out of that cartridge with a top E steel guitar string.

That cartridge is extremely delicate and it doesn't have a part number. I managed to take mine apart and reuse it without problems. Except remembering which way it went in.
There is a spring and a rubber seal and they MUST be positioned properly. My cutaway diagram is correct.

You can also clean out the compensation ports in all of the reservoirs with a top E string. Just be careful not to puncture the primary seal which passes underneath it.

nb - if you want to find articles on the SMC, 'SMC' doesn't work in the search feature - it is too short. But 'Guitar String' will find a lot of them !!

 

[SMSW]

The dirt on your fork legs could be brake dust or rubber particles from something rubbing on the tire(?). The latter is pretty unlikely.

I haven't read the whole post so I am not sure if you are replacing the SMC or trying to pull it apart for inspection. It's been said before that rebuilding these is iffy at best - very few folks have done so successfully and replacement is the choice of champions (wheaties?).

I have not read John's brake article in a while, but if you are struggling to get all the air bubbles out, you might try tapping on the brake hoses (gently) while bleeding, or using a syringe to push the brake fluid down the hoses from the master cylinder banjo. I had success using a vacuum bleeder.

The stuff stopper goes on nicely with ABS cement. I used one of those vise grip welding clamps to hold it while the cement dried. You could also use a couple of those spring clamps sold at Hopot for a buck each or C-clamps. Do a trial run first and make sure everything is clean. Extra hands help w/ this.

Were I going to yank the brake seals, I'd give a lot of thought to replacing them. A quick look showed the seal sets are 9.50 to $10.50 per piston and a complete set (excluding the SMC if you are renewing that) would cost around $60 + shipping. Since brakes are considered life safety items, I'd probably just replace them

 

[MidLife]

Article [13] - ST1300 - Maintenance - Photos of dismantled SMC | ST1300 Articles | ST-Owners.com

That cartridge.......doesn't have a part number.

...and not shown in the manual either. Thank you very much for your outstanding (as usual!) article, about the only doc to be found on that.

nb - if you want to find articles on the SMC.....'Guitar String' will find a lot of them !!

Great tip!

 

[Gus1300]

Where can one purchase these in bulk? I am considering going with copper vs aluminum, since they can be reannealed. Even Partzilla wants $4.11 for one! I don't anticipate having to buy 100, but sheesh...you'd think they were made of gold!

Trying these instead...


And no, not rebuilding the SMC, had one already on the shelf. But I will take the old one apart at some point, just to see how bad it is inside. Curiosity and all that jazz...

 

[Sadlsor]

Even Partzilla wants $4.11 for one! I don't anticipate having to buy 100, but sheesh...you'd think they were made of gold!

Trying these instead...

I find it a bit discouraging as well, but it seems like sticking a name on something can magically transform that something into a something "worth" 100 times more, or at least "costing" 100 times more.
As we've seen here, just buying a manufacturer's identical part for autos can be half the price of that same part to go on a motorbike.
There's a recent brake thread on ADVrider about the rubber boots for the slider pins IIRC, or some boot used on the brakes (can't recall), where the manufacturer part is over 40 dollars, but a similar generic rubber part online is about 2 dollars, and lasts for years. We've seen nuts and bolts and fasteners at similar disparities. Our ST expanding plastic fairing clips, as yet another example.
Do motorcycle manufacturers really need these insane markups to maintain profitability? Me standing on the outside, finds that honestly difficult to fathom.
So it's a habit of mine to shop around for value, when choosing like-for-like.
And, of course... hang out around here to learn these valuable workarounds.

 

[Gus1300]

Bought a long Allen wrench (well, SAE and Metric sets actually, because Harbor Freight, and...why not?) and between a little heat added with a gun and an impact wrench (that didn't really 'impact' much but instead mostly spun), the socket bolt came loose. I think it was more working it between tight and loose that did the trick, probably breaking loose the plasticized thread lock Race Tech sent with their kit.

There were a bit of thread lock particles at the bottom once everything was out:


The new parts arrived; service manual says they don't need to be replaced unless wear is showing around more than 3/4 of the surface, but I put the new ones in anyway:


Couldn't remember how much oil I put in last time, so followed the manual and put in 21.6+/-0.08 oz of ATF (but the level came no where close to as full as it said it should be!) Will see how it does and adjust as necessary. Won't have to pull the brakes apart to get the forks back off, just will have to take the calipers off, which isn't that big of a deal.

Also started putting the brakes back together; pulled out one dust seal and piston seal to see how they looked. Nothing was leaking when I took them all apart, so not swapping them all out at this interval. All was well and good going back together except trying to remember the orientation of the piston seal so that it will do the 'retract' action when pressure is released. Oh, and getting all three torqued up then seeing the dust seal still sitting on the workspace. I was concentrating so hard on making sure the piston seal matched the others by feel that once it was done, I moved on and forgot about dust seal. All came apart again, knew which caliper it was, so that didn't take too long to remedy.

Planning to work on the rest of the brakes tomorrow and try to get everything mostly back together and bled. Got the copper washers and they look like they'll fit, even though they're not quite the OD of the old aluminum ones:


Thanks for all the advice above; and again, if anyone is wondering whether you can do this work yourself, you CAN! (I'll hopefully not have to qualify that statement once everything is all buttoned back up, depending on how well the bleed goes!) Just read the manual, take your time (so you don't forget parts on the work bench/surface!) and lots of pictures!

 

[W0QNX]

The new parts arrived; service manual says they don't need to be replaced unless wear is showing around more than 3/4 of the surface, but I put the new ones in anyway:

Man you are in deep on this refurb.

FYI on the shorter bushings it's the inside that is the wear surface. Your pictures show nothing about the wear surface. But if you have the forks apart it's cheap and easy to replace them.

 

[Sadlsor]

Nice work, Gus. That should give you a feeling of satisfaction for a while.

 

[jfheath]

Well done. Good progress.

FYI. - the deeply recessed fork bolt. I did mine a couple of years ago. I could feel the hex socket starting to give way as I tried to undo them.

They have thread licking compound on them. That turns fluid when it is heated, so the bottom of the fork leg sat in boiling water for a few minutes. When the bolts came out, it was like chewing gum on the threads.

Then a tip from Larry (@Igofar) which I didn't know. To undo stuck bolts, apply enough pressure and hold it there - don't increase it. Keep the pressure consistent and wait. The bolt eventually yields with a crack.
I have to admit that I was sceptical, but it was Larry, so I did what I was told and held the pressure and waited. Just when I was thinking 'this isn't going to work'. Crack. The bolt was free.

How did I know how much pressure. I got a torque wrench and set it to the required torque, and tightened a bolt with the same size thread - so I had a feel for the amount of force required. I suppose I could have used the torque wrench itself with the square drive reversed, but there is a better feel on an ordinary drive.

-----

Regarding the seals. I once spent ages trying to find the 'lip' of the trapezoidal cross section on my new seals. There didn't seem to be one, so I went researching. It seems that they don't have them nowadays, and new seals have square corners.

----

Too late now but for future readers. Crush washers...

Article [13] - ST1300 - Brake Maintenance - Replacing the Secondary Master Cylinder (SMC) | ST1300 Articles

Terrific write up John (@jfheath), thanks for adding some clarity to an often cloudy subject. That being said, I do have a couple of questions as I prepare to replace my SMC. Just a straight replacement. Out with the bad, in with good. New parts are on hand, tools readily available to be...

www.st-owners.com

Post #31 and #32 - They can be ordered from Goodridge. The part number is shown.

 

[Gus1300]

Thanks John. I felt both socket bolts break loose no problem. The first backed all the way out fine, but the second wouldn't because the inside bottom of the fork damper (not the oil lock, the bolt goes straight through that) started to also turn with no way to hold it. Haven't had to try Larry's fluid recommendation or pressure/time technique but am aware and sounds like it works great.

I'll keep the washer reference, hopefully I won't need it and these will work fine. Only bought 50 but still should be plenty for a couple replacements; will keep track for corrosion that has been mentioned as well.

Here's the insides of the guide bushings; I guess those inside surfaces don't look that worn after all, but as mentioned, since I had them out...:

 

[Gus1300]

Short note...forks back together but now the front axle is sticking about 1/8 inch, maybe less, rather than flush. Haven't taken it back out again to see what might be the cause, but it definitely needs to go a bit further to have the shoulder push against the left dust seal as right now it's just barely touching the fork. And just to confirm I think I put them back in the wheel correctly, the thin one is on the left and the wide one is on the right? I'll do some more research to find the answer myself as well before tightening everything up. Bled the brakes successfully, I think. Pedal and lever holding pressure nicely after about a full container of fluid, four rounds of the bleeding process, and no little bubbles out any of the bleeders. I'm guessing a ride or two may 'vibrate' some stragglers around to the bleeders so won't wait too long to go another round. And will definitely give it a good test to make sure nothing is binding on the rear (which seems a bit tight with the new pads on that it did previously). Haven't remounted the SMC yet either but close to getting everything buttoned back up and hitting the road to give it a little test.

 

[Igofar]

You may want to dial the and chat a bit before you jump on the bike for a test ride.

 

[Gus1300]

I definitely will Larry, thanks! Not there yet and it'll be a few days still since before I'm ready to do so. Slow process between work and travel right now.

 

[jfheath]

In the meantime .....

Article [13] - ST1300 - Maintenance - Front & Rear Wheel Install and Front Axle Animation | ST1300 Articles

Animated sequence to show the correct procedure when installing the front wheel into the forks of a Honda ST1300. The right hand side of the bike is the side with the brake lever. Left is the clutch lever side. This is the convention used in the Honda manuals. The video and the photo below...

www.st-owners.com

 

[Gus1300]

Took another quick look tonight and this is as far as the axle slides in. Goes in easily up to that point and then no more. I'll be taking it all apart again to see what might be causing the interference and go from there. Everything looked fine when I checked the bearings, etc so not sure what is happening but will figure it out and report back!

 

[Gus1300]

Got everything back together, some with straight up success, some with trial and error, and some I'm still a bit perplexed about (more on that later).

First off, brakes. No leaks, ran through the bleed process several times, overnight pressure went to nothing after pumping up the front lever and rear pedal until Larry recommended keeping the bungee on overnight, then releasing it and without doing anything else, pushing all the pistons back into the calipers to get rid of the air behind each one and putting it back into the system to naturally vent as designed. Since then, no issues and the front lever moves very little before meeting full resistance. Considering that one a success; I'll stay on top of keeping the pistons clean and flushing the system regularly so I don't have to deal with the crud that was left behind from several years ago when I let the fluid get too discolored.

On to reinstalling the brake pads. As shown in the photo, the inboard rear pad wasn't quite set on the tab and a quick spin of the wheel revealed that it was touching the wheel slightly (but deep enough to lightly gouge it...sigh):



Removing it, verifying no tabs had been bent in the effort, and reinstalling it corrected the problem. Just remember, that first end going in blind is critical to put in the right place for the pad to operate as designed.

Removed the old Audiovox Cruise Control:



and was pleasantly surprised at the cleanliness under the air filter, and the air filter itself:



as last time there was a fairly significant oil film inside the airbox. Since the last time I was in there, I had replaced the plugs and one of the seals while in checking the shim tolerances. I expect that helped the situation.

Now the two perplexing things. When replacing the front axle, I am pretty sure (almost as sure as I was when I put the clutch master cylinder plunger in backwards!) the dust caps are correctly oriented and on the correct sides, however, the axle would not seat flush. Larry reminded me to 'align the forks,' which was something I hadn't done last time the forks were rebuilt. But in that case the axle slid right in and had no issue going flush prior to the tightening sequence. This time though, it would not go in the last little bit:

despite it sliding completely through without the wheel in place --

The gap next to the left fork appeared too small, because the larger axle diameter wasn't pushing the dust cover/spacer/bearing OR (and I sure hope this isn't the case) I have a bent fork:
and I'm not sure where this misalignment comes from as the mounting holes are symmetric on the two forks but the fender doesn't align with the wheel (StuffStopper installed using the correct ABS cement this time and seems much more secure!):


Whether those are related or not, I'm not sure. After tightening things down, I moved the left fork flush with the axle to get the correct dust cover spacing from the fork and have been riding it that way without any pull to one side or the other or rotor heating. I'm just not certain why it wouldn't align flush this time when it had previously with every tire change and the last fork rebuild.

***When going down the road though, the handlebars are slightly turned to the right when going straight (clutch reservoir higher than brake reservoir), which also wasn't how it was before.***



The other issue is that the bike backfires quite a bit more than it did previously. I removed the cruise control vacuum line and couldn't find the tubing so pulled the 5-way back toward the MAP sensor connection before replacing the airbox.

I suspect something may have come unfastened (all the large tubes under the airbox were in place and I'm pretty sure all the connectors were replaced) or the PAIR valves have become dirty? But the change was after the recent mx that did not involve the PAIR valves, so wondering what else could cause the backfiring. I was able to turn the idle adjuster to the point where the idle RPM is now set at 1000 within the 100rpm tolerance so now more throttle guarding while stopped to prevent the bike from stalling.

A lot of things going on; will keep updating as I work through them to hopefully resolve them all and let you know what I find. Turns out the brakes were the least of my worries!