New brake problem - Help!

[stgolfer]

I'm going to pull the front pads, one side at a time. If no drag after that, bearings are fine. Then clean the pistons, clean and lube the slide pins and grommets and put it back together. If still dragging - loosen front wheel and retighten everything in correct order. If still dragging - *%(% it. I'm going riding. Maybe it's normal. It's just a sound that wasn't there before. Maybe just the new and different pads making a different frequency sound than the old pads. I felt the rotors on my car after a short drive, and frankly, they were hotter than the ones on the bike get.

 

[Coucours Grad]

Heres one more suggestion....



Pull the PADS ONLY and inspect them carefully. If theres any high spots on the rotors you will see areas where the pads are getting worn.


Personally I think if you carefully took her for about a 100 mile ride the problem would go away.

 

[BCBOB]

Stgolfer I cant wait for your results.
I changed my front tire and have the same situation, tire might spin one turn.
The bike has its original pads, 9k miles on the 03 bike.
I have bled the brakes(per the manual) and cleaned the pistons. Wheel was installed per the newest specs.
I can push/wiggle the calipers a tad and all loosens up, wheel spins a lot easier, until brakes applied again.
Fluid level is fine.
bob

 

[Igofar]

As I've told other members with these types of problems, remove the left front caliper, and remove the small bushing on the lower mounting point. It rides on needle bearings. I always find these bone dry and the bushing scored.
You can polish and clean the bushing off with a scotchbright pad, then pack the needle bearings with marine waterproof grease. Since this is a pivot point, if it is dry, sticking, or not working smoothly, it could also cause the front caliper
to be just off center enough to cause it to bind, thus causing the dragging. It will also cause the SMC piston to bind, and drag the rear brakes as well.
When you remount the left caliper, make sure you put the locktight in the female threads of the bracket, and not on the bolt, or you'll risk getting the locktight into the bearings.
IGF

 

[BCBOB]

Igofar I did the needle bearing also, it was good to go (as new) I added a little grease.
I never spun the front wheel before I bled the brakes/ changed the tire, so not sure what it was like before.
Probably get tags next week and give it a go as there is really nothing else one can do????
bob

 

[Igofar]

Not sure I'd ride a bike with the front wheel not working smoothly.
I put in new pads, and bled the system, and could still get 2-3 full turns when I spun the front wheel.
I used OEM pads. I'm thinking the problem might be with the fitment of the aftermarket pads, or installation.
I'd keep looking until you find the problem. Of course I'm very OCD in my service.

 

[stgolfer]

I had almost no time to do anything today. Hopefully tomorrow, but I did remove the left front caliper and gave the wheel a spin. It now spins one (1) full revolution instead of 1/4 - 1/2 a revolution. I'll remove the right one tomorrow as well and spin it again, but for now, I have my son's lacrosse game to go to.

Tomorrow, I'll remove the front wheel, clean the pistons, lube the pivot bolt bearings and re-install.

I 'd like to clean and lube the slider pins, but really don't know quite how to, or what to use. I think someone mentioned Sil-glide, but what is that? Lithium grease? Brand name? where you can get it? I don't know what kind of lubes to use in certain situations and which to avoid.

 

[st1300r]

Silglyde...
Silicone grease. (aka brake grease, bulb grease, dielectric, dielectric tuneup grease)

 

[ST-Traveler]

consider replacing your brake pad pins, relatively cheap and should be done with each set of new brake pad changes. you can get the part numbers for them from the part fiche.
When I order my brake pads I also order new pins to go with them.

Greg

 

[Igofar]

consider replacing your brake pad pins, relatively cheap and should be done with each set of new brake pad changes. you can get the part numbers for them from the part fiche.
When I order my brake pads I also order new pins to go with them.

Greg

If you don't want to order the new pins, you can clean the old ones (depending on how much corrosion damage there is) with a red or grey scotchbrite pad, steel wool & brake fluid, brass cleaning brush etc.
I find that the copper or grey antiseaze works well on the pins too.

 

[stgolfer]

I think I now have everything I need to find and fix this, except maybe experience! I have read everything in this post and everything I could find in the archives. I now feel like an expert, but know I will probably be humbled tomorrow. Too much knowledge through reading with no experience. It should be fun.

 

[stgolfer]

I pulled both calipers this morning and the wheel spun very freely. It would probably STILL be spinning.

I cleaned the right caliper fully and I lessened the tension from the upper pad spring. It was pushing down on the pads so hard, they would have trouble moving. I also put a thin coat of Ultra Brake grease on it. I also cleaned and lubed the hanger pin. I did not remove the slider pins - they moved very freely and I frankly couldn't figure out how to get the upper one off, anyway.

Something interesting I observed - While pushing the pistons out against a board, the upper forward piston came out fully before the lower rear outside piston moved at all. Once the upper one was against the board, the lower moved easily. Then I pumped the center one out. I cleaned them all well and all retracted into the seals with my fingers, though not particularly easily. While pushing the lower one in, it was forcing the upper one out. I then pushed the upper in, then the other two.

Should I lube these? Or just leave them cleaned and move on?



Time to start on the left side.

 

[okmurdog]

I just clean the pistons and move on. Only lubricant on them should be any residual brake fluid that was used as a cleaning agent.

 

[Igofar]

I pulled both calipers this morning and the wheel spun very freely. It would probably STILL be spinning.

I cleaned the right caliper fully and I lessened the tension from the upper pad spring. It was pushing down on the pads so hard, they would have trouble moving. I also put a thin coat of Ultra Brake grease on it. I also cleaned and lubed the hanger pin. I did not remove the slider pins - they moved very freely and I frankly couldn't figure out how to get the upper one off, anyway.

Something interesting I observed - While pushing the pistons out against a board, the upper forward piston came out fully before the lower rear outside piston moved at all. Once the upper one was against the board, the lower moved easily. Then I pumped the center one out. I cleaned them all well and all retracted into the seals with my fingers, though not particularly easily. While pushing the lower one in, it was forcing the upper one out. I then pushed the upper in, then the other two.

Should I lube these? Or just leave them cleaned and move on?



Time to start on the left side.

You lessened the tension of the spring? :no1:
If a brake component, pad, clip, spring, etc. is found to have an issue,
you should replace it with a new part, not bend, adjust, or lessen the tension.
Your adjustment could cause more problems than before.
Or in your language....my 9 iron slices to the right...I think I'll bend it a little to the left.....
This is starting to sound more like the aftermarket, non OEM pads, have fitment issues.
You should really have someone there to assist you in doing this if your not familar with the brake system.
just sayin'

The reason your pistons were going in and out at different times is because each piston goes to a different place (front/rear mastercylinder, PCV valve, SMC, etc.)
If you push one, you risk pushing another completely out.
A very simple brake tool can be made with two flat metal bars, a threaded rod, and a knob. you instert the bars inside the calipers, between the pads, and turn the knob to spread them. It also helps to open the bleeders to bleed of pressure when doing this. I clean the pistons the same time I bleed the systems.

 

[stgolfer]

I wasn't too worried about bending the top spring, since many people have taken them out completely. From what I've read, their main purpose is to stop brake rattle noise. They just pushed down on the pads so strongly, I don't think the pads could move in and out freely enough. I used a 1/4" piece of wood in the caliper to limit the piston travel for cleaning.

Anyway, both sides done, cleaned, lubed, threadlocked and torqued. I took it out for a short ride with several gentle stops and several hard stops, with both brakes, front lever alone and rear pedal alone. Came home and put it on the center stand. With a good spin, I got just over one full revolution. Bumped both calipers and spun again and got 2-1/2 revolutions. Without bumping them, I saw almost quadruple improvement. Bumping them saw more than twice that. I'd say that's a HUGE improvement!!

Thank you to everyone for all the help and advice.

 

[stgolfer]

This is starting to sound more like the aftermarket, non OEM pads, have fitment issues.

Except for the improvement I've already seen, I would agree with you. With the pistons fully retracted, I could barely get either caliper over the rotor. Even with as much improvement that I've seen by cleaning and lubing, I think there will be much more freedom after the front pads wear down a bit.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Did you have OEM pads put in or after market pads? If aftermarket pads, that might be the difference. Also the pads for 08 and newer ST are a different part# than the earlier models. I have always used OEM pads for my 03. never any issues.

Seems someone ask that question way back in the beginning.

 

[stgolfer]

Seems someone ask that question way back in the beginning.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Thanks Chuck.

My dealer didn't have any honda pads, but they did have the EBC's. I think they may be just a little bit thicker. Still a huge improvement from just cleaning and lubing properly.

 

[BakerBoy]

Bill, good work! Don't worry any more and go ride.