New brake problem - Help!

[Igofar]

I have a theory but need an answer to this question first.

In cleaning my calipers, when I first removed the pads and used my toothbrush (tastes terrible now) on the pistons, I sprayed brake cleaner. The pistons move in and out fine. What I didn't realize, until I lubed the pins today, is that there is such a suction on from the rubber seals to the pins that it was quite hard to pull the pins out of the seals (these are the slide pins allowing the caliper to "float").

Is there supposed to be such a tight seal/suction? If not, I believe this may be why my brakes are staying so tight after releasing them. My theory is that the brake cleaner caused the seals around the pins to swell.

Can anyone confirm/deny this theory?

Can anyone describe what their pins and seals are like?

NEVER use brake cleaner on the pistons! It WILL swell and damage the seals.
I use clean brake fluid and a toothbrush, or simple green. I've seen people use windex also.
After the pistons are cleaned with brake fluid, they should push in and out with little effort.

 

[Igofar]

Sounds like the floating pins are dried out and full of crud also.
Anytime I clean the brake calipers, change pads, or service them in any way, I also clean the rubber grommets that the pins slide into.
I then put a dab of AGS SIL-GLYDE Brake lubricant inside the grommet, as well as on the pin.
Safe on all rubber parts, and seals out moisture too.

 

[stgolfer]

OK - Step 1 is to bleed the brakes. I have a Stockton bleeder, similar to Motion Pro. How the heck do get the tube to get on and STAY on the right upper bleed valve??? without removing the caliper??

 

[JoeP]

From Mark at Nissin:

Joe,

Usually when the caliper pistons are not returning in the caliper it is a sign of residual pressure in the system. Look and make sure that the lever for the master caliper is traveling completely back to the forward position as this allows pressure to escape the line set and back into the master. Also check and make sure you are using the correct replacement pads for your application, and that the pins, springs and piston boots are in correct working order and intact.

Mark
Account Manager
Nissin Brake Ohio Inc.

 

[Igofar]

OK - Step 1 is to bleed the brakes. I have a Stockton bleeder, similar to Motion Pro. How the heck do get the tube to get on and STAY on the right upper bleed valve??? without removing the caliper??

Its not clear which valve your talking about. Do you mean the PCV on the upper right side of the bike?
There are several articles and threads (I've posted several myself) on the brake bleeding procedure, including shortcuts.
Do you have a service manual?
Check out Milehigh's artical on brake bleeding before you start.
Also search some of my threads on the shortcuts I've found allowing you to bleed the brakes without removing the tupperware.
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me, or email me your phone number and I'll talk you throught it.
Igofar

 

[George]

Residual pressure is not the typical cause on the STs, Mark. Dragging pistons nearly every time.

From Mark at Nissin:

Joe,

Usually when the caliper pistons are not returning in the caliper it is a sign of residual pressure in the system. Look and make sure that the lever for the master caliper is traveling completely back to the forward position as this allows pressure to escape the line set and back into the master. Also check and make sure you are using the correct replacement pads for your application, and that the pins, springs and piston boots are in correct working order and intact.

Mark
Account Manager
Nissin Brake Ohio Inc.

 

[stgolfer]

Before I started the process, I looked at the right front caliper and looked at the top forwardmost nipple. The fork seems to be in the way to slip the tube from my bleeder over it and have it stay there. I think I may just have to get more flexible tubing, or get a right angle adapter for it.

Anybody know the correct size tubing to slip over the bleed valve and have it stay?

 

[Igofar]

Before I started the process, I looked at the right front caliper and looked at the top forwardmost nipple. The fork seems to be in the way to slip the tube from my bleeder over it and have it stay there. I think I may just have to get more flexible tubing, or get a right angle adapter for it.

Anybody know the correct size tubing to slip over the bleed valve and have it stay?

One thing that may help, is don't use the clear tubing that comes with the tool.
I go to the hardware store and purchase some clear 5/16 OD - 3/16 ID tubing. Don't try using the soft stuff for aquarium's, it will leak and suck air.
The only thing that will get in the way on the front forks are the stupid reflectors. I took mine off.
However, its still easy to do with them on. You simply route the tubing behind the reflector, and straight down on the nipple.
With the Stockton tool (Motion Pro purchases and sells the stockton tool) I use a lead piece of tubing about 4 inches long, so the tool's not in the way.
That gives you plenty of room to work with.
When you bleed the system, don't forget the simple things like cleaning the diamphram with denatured alcohol, and clamping the levers back when finished for a couple hours.
PM me if you have any questions about the tupperware shortcuts.
Good luck, have fun. It should take you about an hour to do the entire system, including the clutch, and cleaning the calipers.
Your bike will like you for it.
Igofar

 

[stgolfer]

OK - Bled the entire braking system, including PCV and tilting the SMC. Everything went smoothly, except when I knocked over the bottle of brake fluid on my painted garage floor. Grrr! I ran about two full resevoirs through each step since it hadn't been done in so long and I really wanted to flush it out well. Brake fluid is cheap.

It was really a very easy job. Should have done it long ago and will do it much more often. I did not do the clutch, but I already did that about two months ago.

I still get less than 1/2 turn on the front. On the rear, I get almost two rotations, with brake noise. If I bump the rear MC, there is still brake noise.

I took it for a ride, still have the same noise and still 1/2 turn. I'm thinking I should remove the front wheel, replace wheel bearings and seals and clean the pistons very well. Maybe replace the dust boots as well?

I'm starting to think the noise I'm hearing may not be brakes. I don't know.

I do know that I have to be in AZ in 2 weeks, with lots to do before then. With the bike. Probably can't do this 'til I get back. Anybody forsee any problems? Thanks again for all your help.

 

[Mellow]

I would at the very least pull the wheel and check the bearings... while off, I'd clean the pistons.. just like you said... other than that, if the noise is still there I think it's just a break in issue perhaps and like Bob mentioned a few posts ago, just need time for them to seat and mate to the rotors.

 

[Ashley]

Bill, sorry for your trouble on this but it makes me glad I have an ancient 1100 without ABS.


Posted using Tapatalk

Ashley

 

[NorCalBusa]

Pull the pads and see how it spins?

 

[stgolfer]

Pull the pads and see how it spins?

Now there's a good idea!!

 

[Al Gully]

Now there's a good idea!!

Don't forget to give v8-7 an atta boy also. He mentioned that in the 4th post.

 

[bruce lawson]

There is a brake recall on the 2003 st has yours been serviced for it? check under recalls on bottom of forum page.

 

[v8-7]

LOL...

 

[stgolfer]

The brake recall was for a possible leaking PCV. No leakage here.

Thanks, Stan! You feel like taking a run over here and getting the South Florida Tag? Oh..and while you're here......

I need to go get a 6mm socket, (to put my 6mm hex wrench onto my torque wrench), and an axle tool, and some moly for the axle before I can take off the wheel. Will high pressure moly for CV joints work? or do I need some other type?

 

[Igofar]

No, you don't want HP grease, you want Moly Paste 40% solids, etc.
If you can't find the Honda stuff, Belray makes an assembly moly paste for about $10 bucks, in a jar with a brush.
I find its the same stuff honda uses, but, has more waterproofing in it as well.
I always find it still there when I remove the wheel for the tire change.
Motion pro makes a really nice axle tool for about $20 bucks also. Its several (4) different sized allen sockets, that use a standard 3/8 inch drive.
Or you can purchase a simple 17mm allen key at sears for about $8 bucks. Your only going to use it to keep the front axle from turning while you tighten the nut.
I use a piece of 2x4, standing on end, and put the handle to the wrench on the end, it becomes my helping hand.
Did my email make it through to you today?
Igofar

 

[v8-7]

I may be able to come over on Friday, but if you can ride it over here, I have all the stuff we need except new parts if any are needed .

Stan

 

[ST-Traveler]

Getting in late here, just went out and spun my front wheel and it spun freely at least 2 full turns. I do all my own brakes and never trust a dealer to do it right. Here are some pics I took of my rear caliper pistons before cleaning. The fronts are the same procedure.
https://www.st-owners.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3139