New brake problem - Help!

[George]

Take the calipers off; pump the pistons out a little; clean them; push the pistons back in. IF the dealer didn't do this, the job was not done correctly.

Brake fluid: "topping off" the fluid as the pads wear is a bad idea, there is enuf fluid in the reservoir to take the pads all the way to the metal. If ya change the fluid mid-pad-life, don't fill the reservoir to the top. AND, if ya do, be sure to pull some out before pushing the pistons back in with fresh pads.

Gotta say, folks, doing yur brakes yurself (correctly) goes a long way toward keeping things right. Know your bike. Doing the brakes is not that much more complicated than changing the oil, and provides buckets of assurance.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Agree with George, people need to get more intimate with their bikes. After all, we all look at them as our second love, My wife calls my bikes my "Girl Friends" Knowing one's machine and how it works is a great peice of mind. You make time for your wife and marriage maint. You don't leave that to others. You also need to make quality time for your machine. There is more to maintaining your bike then just throwing money at the dealer and saying fix it. And if you don't know how there is plenty of help, both written and personal here on the various ST forums. Do the tasks you can and learn how to do the tasks you don't know how to do. The closer you get with your machine the better the relationship will be.

 

[JoeP]

Bob may be right that it's just going to take some time for the new pads to wear into the grooves the old pads created in the rotors.

I've resolved that the pads will have to wear into the grooves. My calipers don't get real hot when riding, maybe I'm just paranoid. A couple of things are for absolute sure, I'm going to keep an eye on them and I'll bet mine are the cleanest around.

Igofar, thanks for the list. I did all except lube the splines (did that 2 weeks ago) and lube the pins. I pulled the calipers off again and lubed the pins. I'll keep a guarded eye on them over the next month or so.

I only wished you lived near me so I could fix your bike for you.

Feel like flying to Dallas???

 

[stgolfer]

Agree with George, people need to get more intimate with their bikes.

I'm working on it! A year ago, I didn't even know how to check my clutch fluid when the clutch got spongey! I've since done lots of re-wiring, flushed the clutch, (didn't get to the brakes), swapped the knock sensors, replaced the ECM, replaced the windshield motor assembly, replaced the air filter, and many more things I can't recall right now. Now I'm learning about brakes. I'm getting there.

Thanks everyone for all your help! I'll post again after the flush and caliper cleaning to let you know how it went, or to ask for more help.

 

[NorCalBusa]

"Anthropomorphize ". Its a machine.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

"Anthropomorphize ". Its a machine.

If that is true then you can't be angry at it, or blame it when the machine leaves you stranded in BFE. You only have yourself to blame. It has no feelings there for there is no blame. I have worked on machines all my life. Missiles, bikes, medical equipment, cars, etc. They all have a personality, They all can speak to you if you want to listen. Not in a human sense but speak non the less.

 

[Igofar]

Wait for it..........MOTION PRO Bleeding tool......
Lots of real good advice here. Looking at the fluid does not tell you if its contaminated or not.
Go find yourself a Motion Pro or Stockton Bleeding tool, and flush the entire system.
Do the clutch while your at it. Follow the book for the sequence, and use my shortcuts (no tupperware needs to be removed) and get to know your bike.
You'll be glad you did.
Happy Easter

 

[JoeP]

I have a theory but need an answer to this question first.

In cleaning my calipers, when I first removed the pads and used my toothbrush (tastes terrible now) on the pistons, I sprayed brake cleaner. The pistons move in and out fine. What I didn't realize, until I lubed the pins today, is that there is such a suction on from the rubber seals to the pins that it was quite hard to pull the pins out of the seals (these are the slide pins allowing the caliper to "float").

Is there supposed to be such a tight seal/suction? If not, I believe this may be why my brakes are staying so tight after releasing them. My theory is that the brake cleaner caused the seals around the pins to swell.

Can anyone confirm/deny this theory?

Can anyone describe what their pins and seals are like?

 

[Rick77]

I never use brake cleaner to clean the pistons, I just use fresh brake fluid and an old toothbrush.

 

[Mellow]

I never use brake cleaner to clean the pistons, I just use fresh brake fluid and an old toothbrush.

+1... brake cleaner is for metal parts and brake fluid works very well.

 

[RCS]

Take the calipers off; pump the pistons out a little; clean them; push the pistons back in. IF the dealer didn't do this, the job was not done correctly.

+1

I'm arriving to this discussion late.

My guess is that the caliper pistons were dirty and never cleaned before pushing them back into the calipers when installing new brake pads. The result is that the pistons are remaining extended (sticking open) - not retracting back into the calipers - after the brakes are applied. Worst case is that the pistons have never been cleaned in 8 years. Yikes.

Don't know much about your 2003 bike's maintenance history so I'm just going to guess. If the pads were worn down prior to replacement the caliper pistons were extended out of the calipers with the old worn pads gathering all kinds of road grit. Before putting in new pads the dealer should have slightly extended and cleaned the pistons PRIOR to pushing them back into the calipers.

If the grit build-up is really bad you may have to take off the calipers, clean the pistons, and install new piston seals. Each front caliper takes three sets at $7.62/set.

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=159791&category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=2004&fveh=3697

 

[George]

What Bob just said.

If this is the second or third pad set, and the pistons have never been cleaned, almost guarantee grunch behind the piston seals is the culprit. If/when the calipers are rebuilt, be sure to clean the grooves into which the seals go too. Otherwise, yur just gonna have more problems.

Continue to keep us poSTed...

 

[dduelin]

I can't wait any longer. I beg forgiveness. In a million or so miles I have never taken the time to take a tooth brush to my caliper pistons and have yet to have to replace pistons or piston seals. I have yet to experience brake dragging problems either and my ST1300 rotors all mike less than half allowable wear at 100,000 plus miles.

Disc brakes on cars are designed exactly the same way as these motorcycles. Does everyone but me take the time clean and polish the caliper pistons on their cars when they replace pads in the cage?

 

[RCS]

I can't wait any longer. I beg forgiveness. In a million or so miles I have never taken the time to take a tooth brush to my caliper pistons and have yet to have to replace pistons or piston seals. I have yet to experience brake dragging problems either and my ST1300 rotors all mike less than half allowable wear at 100,000 plus miles.

Disc brakes on cars are designed exactly the same way as these motorcycles. Does everyone but me take the time clean and polish the caliper pistons on their cars when they replace pads in the cage?

Motorcycle wheels/pistons are exposed to the elements and do gather road dust rather quickly. I believe we notice the problem more because it is easier to spot.

Regarding my cars, I don't spin car wheels after brake pad changes. I also don't touch the rotors to see if they are hot. For all I know the brake pistons in my car have never been cleaned. The only way I'd know if my cars caliper pistons are dirty is if the dealer told me they siezed. My wife's cars calipers had to be replaced because her pistons froze in the calipers. I'm sure they were never cleaned.

 

[Rick77]

I can't wait any longer. I beg forgiveness. In a million or so miles I have never taken the time to take a tooth brush to my caliper pistons and have yet to have to replace pistons or piston seals. I have yet to experience brake dragging problems either and my ST1300 rotors all mike less than half allowable wear at 100,000 plus miles.

Disc brakes on cars are designed exactly the same way as these motorcycles. Does everyone but me take the time clean and polish the caliper pistons on their cars when they replace pads in the cage?

Sorry for being anal retentive, but I clean them on the cage too. In the area I live road salt is over used and I do it for peace of mind. (I clean but don't polish)

 

[dduelin]

Motorcycle wheels/pistons are exposed to the elements and do gather road dust rather quickly. I believe we notice the problem more because it is easier to spot.

Regarding my cars, I don't spin car wheels after brake pad changes. I also don't touch the rotors to see if they are hot. For all I know the brake pistons in my car have never been cleaned. The only way I'd know if my cars caliper pistons are dirty is if the dealer told me they siezed. My wife's cars calipers had to be replaced because her pistons froze in the calipers. I'm sure they were never cleaned.

Exactly. You would know if you had brakes dragging because the pad wear or rotor wear would be excessive. If it isn't, it isn't and brakes routinely go the distance without taking a toothbrush to them. But I will consider it for the future as I obviously have been remiss in my servicing.

 

[JoeP]

My guess is that the caliper pistons were dirty and never cleaned before pushing them back into the calipers when installing new brake pads. The result is that the pistons are remaining extended (sticking open) - not retracting back into the calipers - after the brakes are applied. Worst case is that the pistons have never been cleaned in 8 years. Yikes.

I cleaned the pistons thoroughly and can slide them in and out with my finger. Does anyone's seals around the pins create a suction? When I tried to separate the caliper from the bracket to lube the pins, the seals were sucked on so tight it was hard to pull them apart. My thought is perhaps that it what is causing the breaks not to release all of the way. That is about the last thing I know to check. All else appears normal.

 

[RCS]

The source of bike sounds can be very deceiving.

Could also be rear tire flange bearings making the scraping noise mentioned in your first post. Try putting the bike on the centerstand and running it in second gear. Listen for the noise.

 

[v8-7]

Jooe P, yes, that is normal.

 

[JoeP]

Jooe P, yes, that is normal.

Thanks V8-7. I'm back to the resolve that the new brakes will have to work into the groove of the OEM ones.