Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 20??

[Bones]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

yep there are still folks showing up every day saying how great the ST is, both of them...they may be older designs but they are far from failures.

So, you mean two people are showing up to say how great the ST is. both of them

 

[Mellow]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So, you mean two people are showing up to say how great the ST is. both of them

Why is it you always take things literally? Oh wait, never mind...

 

[sherob]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

So, you mean two people are showing up to say how great the ST is. both of them

 

[TRICKYRIC5474]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Unless there is a Honda announcement in the next few months I guess my choice in 2015 will be..GS. Or RT. sad to say as I would give the edge to a new ST.

 

[Nevada]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I'll bet that new Valkyrie outsells the Rune. By one or two...

Well, I guess Honda was missing something to compete with the V-rod - which is such a huge seller for HD.

Slightly reworked Goldwing = Valkyrie

That means a new Goldwing is coming in 2015 or 2016. All tarted up and aimed straight at the K1600GTL, while the Valk and F6B hold down the lighter/cheaper end of things for a couple of years.

 

[Nevada]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

There are two considerations for Honda in whether or not to develop a new ST. The first is the size of the market segment. It's a flat segment with more bikes in it now than when the ST1300 was introduced. That's not an encouraging prospect for a company. ADV bikes have pretty much cannibalized the light SPORT-touring market, and made inroads into our segment.

However, the second consideration is the heavy LEO/service market. THAT is one that, if Honda really set their noggins to it, they could blow BMW & H-D out of the water. Kawasaki, IIRC, has had a rough go of it with their partnering approach. BMW & H-D get hammered for their service costs.

So, what if Honda actually set out to design an optimal heavy cop bike? The ST's engine is good, good enough to keep alive and put into the CTX1300. Improve everything about serviceability. Make a few other tweaks, including explicitly (but without acknowledging an actual problem) addressing the dreaded semi-mythical high speed weave. Bring the lifecycle cost down.

That, frankly, is the most likely route to a new ST. The question is, what is the replacement cycle like for LEO bikes? How much of their engineering resources will Honda have available, what with the next-gen Goldwing almost certainly in the works, probably a new Fireblade or 600 Supersport (but not both) in the works, and the usual farting around with cruisers going on.

Still, if you guys think about it, we really don't have much to complain about.

After all, at least we haven't been waiting as long as XR650L fans....

 

[Appalachian]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

There are two considerations for Honda in whether or not to develop a new ST. The first is the size of the market segment. It's a flat segment with more bikes in it now than when the ST1300 was introduced. That's not an encouraging prospect for a company. ADV bikes have pretty much cannibalized the light SPORT-touring market, and made inroads into our segment.

However, the second consideration is the heavy LEO/service market. THAT is one that, if Honda really set their noggins to it, they could blow BMW & H-D out of the water. Kawasaki, IIRC, has had a rough go of it with their partnering approach. BMW & H-D get hammered for their service costs.

So, what if Honda actually set out to design an optimal heavy cop bike? The ST's engine is good, good enough to keep alive and put into the CTX1300. Improve everything about serviceability. Make a few other tweaks, including explicitly (but without acknowledging an actual problem) addressing the dreaded semi-mythical high speed weave. Bring the lifecycle cost down.

That, frankly, is the most likely route to a new ST. The question is, what is the replacement cycle like for LEO bikes? How much of their engineering resources will Honda have available, what with the next-gen Goldwing almost certainly in the works, probably a new Fireblade or 600 Supersport (but not both) in the works, and the usual farting around with cruisers going on.

They are already kitting VFR1200F's in Europe for LE duty which suggests to me they aren't doing much to develop anything new at all.

 

[Skunkape]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I wonder how many here would actually buy one if there was a new one. I bet Honda has a real good idea and that's probably why there isn't a new one. It's fun to criticize but I can honestly say that I would not be in the market. It is fun to speculate though. CRF250L as a second bike is looking enticing though or was it the WR250R? :???:

 

[Bones]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

From my source inside Honda:

Bones, all our 2014 product offerings have not been announced yet for the
States. Believe me, I understand what your saying but US national sales
numbers reflect what is happening in our market and the entire K1600 series
does not register that much. Right now bikes like our 500 series, NC700X,
Grom, and CTX are where the bulk of the market is. Still, we're not
forgetting premium product like the F6B, Valkyrie, CBR1000RR SP, etc. I
know it's not what you are looking for! I'll go bug product planning again
about the Crosstourer.
​

So there you have it.

 

[BakerBoy]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I wonder how many here would actually buy one if there was a new one. I bet Honda has a real good idea and that's probably why there isn't a new one. It's fun to criticize but I can honestly say that I would not be in the market. It is fun to speculate though. CRF250L as a second bike is looking enticing though or was it the WR250R? :???:

I would. One thing I'm certain of ... if Honda doesn't produce a new model ST, they stand no chance of selling a new model ST! ;-)

If Honda produced a new model ST, there are sales available--its up to Honda to estimate if the sales IFO/Quantities vs. their costs would yield an acceptable ROI.

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I wonder how many here would actually buy one if there was a new one. I bet Honda has a real good idea and that's probably why there isn't a new one. It's fun to criticize but I can honestly say that I would not be in the market. It is fun to speculate though. CRF250L as a second bike is looking enticing though or was it the WR250R? :???:

I have ridden Hondas from the beginning of my motorcycle career (31+ years). I have ridden ST's for 21 years now. 10 years on a ST1100 and now 11 years on a ST1300. It is now time to upgrade to a new Sport Touring machine and Honda does not have a player on the field. Guess I will be moving to their competition. (read FJR) So If Honda was in the ball game, I would be shopping for a Honda instead of a Yamaha. For thirty + years I have been Honda, and Honda only (except for a small detour with BMW) and it has been just within the last three years my eye has been straying to other manufactures becouse Honda can not or will not compete any more in the dual sport and adventure touring market. And now they refuse to compete in the Sport Touring market. My question is weather honda wants to compete in any market but the cruiser market? Looking at what they are coming out with, if I was into large cruisers I guess I would be going to Harley or Yamaha for those also. Back in the decade of the Eighties, Honda was the innovator and leader when it came to interesting engine configurations and stylish motorcycles. What happened in the last 25 years?

 

[flyfisher]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I suspect most of us have at least 5 year old STs.....that's a long time on the same toy....sure they aren't worn out.....but we itcj for something new and shiny and IMPROVED.....and it can't be priced 3 grand more than a new FJR....which if it was a Honda a lot of us would be buying one....maybe we're headed down the FJR trail already......VFR 1200-what happened to that? They sell a few now that the price is reduced...but when first introduced they were priced out of the market.....and where's the sport touring version? Jeebus, they can't even import their adventure bikes here.....if we had 'em we'd buy 'em.....just saying.....you could look at the whole motorcycle market globally and doom and gloom the whole thing into the toilet....is Honda gonna build bikes or just become a scooter maker? I can't believe the decisions they make......build more cruisers.....where is the imagination and forward thinking that old man Honda had? Did it die with him? Rant over....thanks for listening..............ff

 

[bmotsenbocker]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

Business is a money game and although we are loyal Honda fans the fact remains that Honda is in the market to make money. If they can make more money in the cruiser market they will go there without hesitation. The Gold Wing is there comfort touring model with a huge following and the ST well not so much. The ST is an absolutely amazing piece of engineering. I am still amazed at the machine after 36,000 miles on my original 2003 base model. I too have considered an FJR or a BMW 1200GT but I keep coming back to the one I own thinking, "Why would In do that?". Sure hope they don't discontinue the ST line anytime soon, but Honda needs to upgrade the new model to hold its market share.

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

it has been just within the last three years my eye has been straying to other manufactures becouse Honda can not or will not compete any more in the dual sport and adventure touring market.

They are. Just not here. In the EU, Honda is selling the Crosstourer, the XL1000A Varadero, the Crossrunner, XL700V Transalp and the NC700X.

Here is what bike magazine has to say this month about the ST1300 Pan European, "Once the touring benchmark, now dated. Surely to be replaced by a new, lighter one."

 

[ChucksKLRST]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

They are. Just not here. In the EU, Honda is selling the Crosstourer, the XL1000A Varadero, the Crossrunner, XL700V Transalp and the NC700X.

Here is what bike magazine has to say this month about the ST1300 Pan European, "Once the touring benchmark, now dated. Surely to be replaced by a new, lighter one."

The 64 million dollar question is. When?????

 

[Virginia.Bob]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

I wonder how many here would actually buy one if there was a new one. I bet Honda has a real good idea and that's probably why there isn't a new one. It's fun to criticize but I can honestly say that I would not be in the market. It is fun to speculate though. CRF250L as a second bike is looking enticing though or was it the WR250R? :???:

I would, only reason I haven't bought something else is that I was waiting for the next ST from Honda. I know the 1200F didn't sell well. I think the younger crowd wants something lighter and less expensive. And at the same time Honda needs to realize that the VFR fan base has aged and the 1200F leaned too much toward the sport side for many of them. The 1200T would do much better IMHO. I've delayed a new bike purchase for two years waiting. Now I will buy something else, probably an FJR or one of the BMWs.

 

[broc11]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

and the NC700X

They have just upgraded the NC700X to the NC750X http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/624/17388/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Honda-NC750S---NC750X-First-Look.aspx

Do you get any of the adventure bikes in Canada?

 

[bmcdonau]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

It's not just the lack of a new ST from Honda that chaps my butt, it's seeing no discernible strategy in their bike design and marketing. There are neat bikes that we can't get in the US--instead we get the DN-01, VFR-1200, F6B and the CTX-1300. They cost considerably more than bikes from the other Asian and some European manufacturers. Who does Honda expect to buy them? Take the VFR1200, it was too big for a sport bike and too slow to compete for sales with the Kawasaki ZX14 and Suzuki Hyabusa. It looked like it was slotted into the spot the Blackbird used to occupy, but had none of the performance. I don't know what Honda's pricing strategy is except to set the MSRP 10-25 percent higher than their competition. You can say its the value of the Yen, but you have to wonder how the other companies are managing to keep costs down.

I'm not sure what to wish for--If all these new cruiser variants fail miserably is Honda going to take a step back and send us more V-twin cruisers and sport bikes? Or, are they going to bring some bikes over that will really excite people? I know the Gold Wing crowd is also perturbed that Honda has not redesigned that now 13 year old platform.

This reminds me of the mid 70s when Honda was launching the car company and let the SOHC bikes run on too long. Does anyone remember the '78 CB750? They finally turned it around with the release of the CBX and DOHC CB750. The CBX wasn't really a big success, but at least it "WOWED" people. The new V4s followed and the 80s were great to be a Honda rider.

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

They have just upgraded the NC700X to the NC750X http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/624/17388/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Honda-NC750S---NC750X-First-Look.aspx

Do you get any of the adventure bikes in Canada?

We did get the NC700XA and the CB500X. We had the Varadero for a couple of years, but it was 10 years old when it arrived and had nothing to offer relative to the V-stroms and others. I took one for a test ride, but didn't like the motor, which felt a lot like the a PC800. It has since been dropped.

 

[GlenT]

Re: Replacement for the Honda ST1300 in 2014?

This reminds me of the mid 70s when Honda was launching the car company and let the SOHC bikes run on too long. Does anyone remember the '78 CB750? They finally turned it around with the release of the CBX and DOHC CB750. The CBX wasn't really a big success, but at least it "WOWED" people. The new V4s followed and the 80s were great to be a Honda rider.

The CX500's and the CX650's were fairly popular during this period. I bought both the CX500D and the GL500I when it came out.