The electric PAN - ST1300 - my next project.

[ad.hom]

Interesting concept... if you need a test pilot, I'm pretty sure I could get to Durham before Upt'North.

Ignore the naysayers, it's your cash/bike. I'm sure all the best inventors in the world had people calling them crazy. Where there's a will....

 

[technotony007]

Interesting concept... if you need a test pilot, I'm pretty sure I could get to Durham before Upt'North.

Ignore the naysayers, it's your cash/bike. I'm sure all the best inventors in the world had people calling them crazy. Where there's a will....

There definitely a way a.d.hom !!!! , there seems to be cue developing now...…. lol

I still have it to build it , and sell my abundance of st1300 spares to finance it ...

thanks for the encouragement fella

regards

tony

 

[Larry Fine]

I would think that the removed engine can be replaced with a few struts to maintain frame integrity.

 

[ad.hom]

sell my abundance of st1300 spares to finance it ...

Now then... A fellow member selling spare parts for a 13 in the UK, when I happen to ride a 13... doesn't happen often.

Remember to post on the for sale section here whenever you have bits removed & I'll probably be part funding this concept of yours.

 

[technotony007]

Hi All,
Firstly, thanks for the inputs / and thoughts so far…. . I have eventually, with the help of some people of here came up with a feasible plan. (in my mind, anyway !!!)

ICE / Gearbox, clutch, water pump assembly
Gearbox – Yes everyone, I am going to try with the first option to utilise the cut down ICE engine and cobble a means of coupling together the EV motor (bevel belt, Meshed gears, chain sprockets.) so, I can get an effective water-cooling system also.

I am expecting mechanical losses from this setup, but I will try and reduce them were possible, and eventually see a result.

Once installed if this proves fruitless / and not to my satisfaction I will scrap the gearbox idea and revert to an EV motor direct system.
Plan is to keep the weight, especially the batteries low down.

The Electric EV side

There was a great deal of help, and thanks especially to guys in endless sphere forum and c70r and for his thoughts on this:

My current thoughts for the powered system are:


Batteries
Both assemblies will be mounted in each side pannier. (some strengthening may be needed.)
Either:

Plan A - 2 off - 2012 Chevrolet Volt EV 88V/5kWh battery pack

Lithium Battery Module - LiMn2O4/LiNiO2
Contains 24 cells or 2 packs of 12 cells.
Each cell is nominal 3.7V, max voltage 4.15V - measured 34Ah.
Continuous current is 4C = 140A, short time 210A.
Length: 47cm (18.5")
Width: 18cm (7") top / 24cm (9.5") bottom
Height: 28cm (11")
Weight: 38kg (84 lbs)

Link below.

4kWh Chevrolet Volt Lithium battery module

m.y. 2012 88V 45Ah nominal

evshop.eu

Plan B - 7 x Nissan Leaf 2018 Modules will get you the 28S (116V) and 112Ah to giving a total of 11.6kWh






The EV drive motor:
My current thoughts now point to Zero 75-7, as this looks to have better specification. The previous 20kw BLDC motor, was suggested to be underpowered for this setup.

54 hp or 40.26 kw

420A @ 116v

The only issue with this motor, is it is rarer than hens’ teeth to find. A good secondhand unit is hard to find, so it maybe some time until I acquire one.

The controller

the Sevcon Gen 4 Size 6 if you decide to go the Zero motor route due to the 116V capability. The controller, programming cable and software can be sourced for around £1100 brand new from a dealer in the UK. (6Kg)

Hopefully I can find a secondhand unit out there!

DC- DC controller –

This is to power your lights, indicators, horn etc. (these I seen at Maplin’s / RS for Previously about £30.

Throttle / twist grip -

the throttle like will be a Domino, as these are supposed to be the best. (not found one yet!)

This basically gives me a Zero S/DS like bike but in the shape of a tourer.

First job is the engine conversion. (while I hunt for the EV parts in the background.) I will post photos as it progresses.

Regards and many thanks to, c70r, I owe you a pint.

tony

 

[Turbine2]

Sounds like a plan to me. Good luck.

 

[drtyrrel]

here is a 200hp electric bike

 

[Obo]

Where there's a will....

...There's a beneficiary.

 

[technotony007]

Hi all,
went to Voltsport , and spoke a fine chap called Phil. I discussed at length what I wanted to , and he was more than helpful and he showed me the route to take and why.

So I have purchased ,

Domino Throttle.

The Sevcon controller Gen 4 size 6 + software and lead for programming.

A Montrenergy ME 1606 , water cooled brushless electric motor, is now the chosen instead of the zero 75 - 7 motor.

I have ordered the above parts from , with a harness , and now my next task is the ICE motor strip down .

He has also shown me a few options on batteries, self build packs & other cheaper versions than Nissan leaf verisions. so I am going to look into these designs once i graft the motor onto the gearbox,etc.

I am sending the frame , subframe, and swingarm , handlebars and foot brackets to the power powder coats to be powder coated black for starters.

I pick up the electric motor , controller and throttle from Voltsport next week.

I will revert with photos once I start.

regards

tony

 

[Walleye]

Nothing motivates more then those contrary to your vision. Have fun, can't wait to see it.

 

[technotony007]

Thanks Guys, Does Anyone have a clear performance graph that details the St1300 Engine torque valves against RPM ?

if anyone could forward me this , it would be appreciated. as i am trying to work the parameters for the motor controller.

regards

tony

 

[Larry Fine]

I found this: https://www.motorcycle.com/images/content/Review/02st1300dynot.jpg

 

[technotony007]

I found this: https://www.motorcycle.com/images/content/Review/02st1300dynot.jpg

Thanks Larry , much appreciated.

regards

Tony

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Thanks Guys, Does Anyone have a clear performance graph that details the St1300 Engine torque valves against RPM ?

See the below link for two actual dyno run numbers on the same ST1300 114,000 miles apart courtesy of @dduelin .

How much power does an ST1300 lose after break-in miles?
.

 

[Upt' North]

Hi all,
went to Voltsport , and spoke a fine chap called Phil. I discussed at length what I wanted to , and he was more than helpful and he showed me the route to take and why.

So I have purchased ,

Domino Throttle.

The Sevcon controller Gen 4 size 6 + software and lead for programming.

A Montrenergy ME 1606 , water cooled brushless electric motor, is now the chosen instead of the zero 75 - 7 motor.

I have ordered the above parts from , with a harness , and now my next task is the ICE motor strip down .

He has also shown me a few options on batteries, self build packs & other cheaper versions than Nissan leaf verisions. so I am going to look into these designs once i graft the motor onto the gearbox,etc.

I am sending the frame , subframe, and swingarm , handlebars and foot brackets to the power powder coats to be powder coated black for starters.

I pick up the electric motor , controller and throttle from Voltsport next week.

I will revert with photos once I start.

regards

tony

I'd never heard of Volt Sport Tony.
Very handy for you there in Gateshead and at least he can steer you in the right direction.
Good luck. Not that you need it.........
Upt'North.

 

[technotony007]

Hi Tony.

Wow, you are making progress.

I read earlier that you were thinking of driving the ST1300 motor from where the Alternator sits. I don't know if this is still your intention, but if it is...

Have you worked out the much lowered gear reduction - ie the extra speed at which the electric motor will need to spin in order to produce the desired rpm at the wheel ?

And have you considered the gearing in the other direction? The motor will be a load - which will help with slowing down, but with the large crankshaft gear driving the small motor gear, the motor will be harder and will have to turn n times faster than it would normally turn over the internal combustion engine. I don't know what the reduction is for that gear to the alternator. I am wondering if the over-run when unwinding the throttle will be enough to lock the rear wheel ?

I know they had problems with hybrid F1 cars using the forward motion to allow the electric motor to recharge the batteries - making the transition smooth enough so as not to lock the rear wheels and spin the car off the track. Of course, the electric motor is much harder to turn if the electrical circuit is complete (as it is when recharging batteries).

Hi john,
hope you are well , as you can see I am embarking on my next project. I intend to mount the electric motor roughly were the alternator was. I intend to remove the crankshaft , cut off the splined ends , to dump the inner counterbalances , then machine a shaft which matches that the bearing shells locations , then somehow attach this new item with the two splined ends on. if that makes sense!!

I will then calculate a method of gearing , belt pully or chain , to be the driving mechanism from the electric motor straight onto the modified crankshaft.

The ME 1606 electric motor i have purchase spins at 6000 rpm , and can be limited to 120 nm of torque. i intend to have a reduction gearing of approx. 1:2

The backing off of the throttle , will produce regen. which can be fed back into the batteries. my understanding is this is programmed at the controller , depending on how much engine brake and resistance i need. This will be worked out once have it running. ( a work in progress so to speak!)

I am on with the wiring / harness at the moment , trimming back the functions from the ICE i dont need . Chaining out the light blubs for LED's and trying to regain the clocks ,etc.

i will post pictures of this shortly

regards

Tony

 

[technotony007]

I'd never heard of Volt Sport Tony.
Very handy for you there in Gateshead and at least he can steer you in the right direction.
Good luck. Not that you need it.........
Upt'North.

Hello fella ,
Voltsport were very helpful , 10 minutes away from my house also.... Phil to chap there a very nice guy..

thanks for the luck ,mate ! , I think I will need it , and bottles of vino to help me think straight/ stress relieve in the garage.

Its a labour of love thou....

regards

tony

 

[aSTerix]

how is your project going ? I started doing the calculations for a similar conversion for my second ST1100 and then found your thread.

 

[technotony007]

Update 25.04.2020


Well ladies & Gents,

I thought it was about time a gave an update on my Electric pan project to date.The first thing I did back in January was sent the frame, sub frame, swingarm and the centre stand away to be sand blasted and powder coated.



After this I then started to assemble all the parts back together to form the outline of a bike again.

• First the swingarm. It took me a while work out how much gap on each side to, I think this is correct. (please let me know if I got it wrong. Could not find the gap in the Manual.)

• The next task was to fit the yokes, folks, rear Maxton shock, foot peg brackets. The windscreen motor drive assembly is now removed as it will save power drain from the batteries, I plan on having a static one position screen.
• I have also at this point started to refit the front brakes, which will be non-ABS system, to save on power demands again.

• As you can see from the photo below, I have removed electric screen assembly.

• Now on with the rest on the brakes and fill up with DOT 4 and bled accordingly.

• Once all the brakes were bled, the fitting of the rear light, tail section, tank, tank lock, panels, seats and rear drive unit.

In an effort to save as much demand on the battery as possible and reduce any potential demands on power. My plan is to

• Convert and the lights to LED’s
• Trim the harness down. Future update to detail further.

The drive train and shaft are to stay very much the same. I plan to fill the splined universal coupling as detailed below in the photos, either welding, chemical metal, or brass. this will assist with connection to the Keyway shaft fitted to the electric drive motor I intend to use.

• The Planned next stages are:

• Trimming down the wiring harness, removing all the redundant functions like the:
• Ignition system, coils & CDI.
• ABS braking system & ECU.
• Starting motor function.
• Alternator
• Relays block
• Changeout the Indicator relay for LED unit.
• incorporating the DCC to DCC unit to feed direct from the New Main Battery.
• Fuel Injection system, pump and gauge
• Clutch switch.
• Transponder system for ignition key.
• Lombard sensors (exhaust)
• Air flow sensors

basically, so the functions left from the original harness will be:

• Ignition switch and key
• Indicators (now LED)
• Front Light unit (now LED)
• Brake lights (now LED)
• Side stand switch
• Side lights (Now LED)
• Run / Stop switch.
• Light switch.

• I am still on the lookout on eBay for the following:

• RH lower blue fairing
• RH mirror cover in blue.
• Bikini top fairing in blue.
• Headlight unit.
• 
  
• Then the design on the 20kw motor & battery Cage, which is now where the original ICE engine is. I decided now just to the electric battery and motor route, for ease. If down the line, after I finish bike, I may revisit the ICE conversion, as I still deep down believe I could utilise the gearbox, crank and clutch as previously though. But this will be too involved for now.
• The thoughts I have for the motor and battery cage, will be a strong 25mm thick aluminium back plate, to which the 20-kw motor will bolt direct onto. This back plate will secure in place the modified spine coupling onto the drive. the area in of the motor will be the area that I fit the LIPO4 batteries, or similar with the a BMS fitted.

• The Fuel tank will first have the underside cut out, and Sevcon controller will be mounted inside on a PDM backing board for insulation. I also plan to fit some sort of charging plug into the fuel cap area.

All these ideas, at the moment are still fluid, but as I commit to a design or revise it, I will post pictures and the thoughts behind it.

If anyone sees what I have done, and has thoughts on better ways to do these, please let me know, as more minds are better than one.

Catch up with more updates soon I hope , now that I have the base design laid out to work from...

Stay safe

Tony

 

[fnmag]

Looking good so far.
Best of luck with your quest.