The electric PAN - ST1300 - my next project.

[technotony007]

Gents , each battery weighs 3.8kg , therefore 14 of them = approx. 54kg ... the dimensions in mm ( metric ) is 303x235x35 each .

these will all fit perfectly in front of the motor , in thr same area where the ICE original motor was.
this is going to be the first units i will use , which

leaf batteries are lithium ...in uk

this looks as is the bike could be far lighter , then i previously thought.

time will tell , and it will make sense when you see it in to situ.

hope this clarifies

tony

 

[technotony007]

i'm not trying to be a party pooper but there are so many huge issues needs to be solved in order to make this work so i'm approaching this a little bit skeptical.

positive mental attitude bud , and hardcore british engineering ....

 

[technotony007]

The correct method to deal with the universal coupling, would be to disassemble the coupling, and replace the half with the splines with one that is machined to fit your motor shaft. Universal couplings are usually designed to mix/match the halves to whatever shaft size that you need.

John

Hi John ,
that is the belt and braces option. I may need something specifically machine to go inside the splined end outer shape , with a matching 20mm dia shaft with keyway for motor fit.

for cheapness , i thought for now , fill it will , molten brass , or lead or steel weld and machine match motor to suit.

the heat off the molten metal is putting me off , as it make effect bearing in coupling shell joint.

hence the other thought was chemical metal.

thoughts ?

tony

 

[ST Gui]

i'm not trying to be a party pooper but

And yet...

positive mental attitude bud , and hardcore british engineering

Code for "Don't let the bas***** get you down!" I have no idea if you'll succeed to your satisfaction but that's really all that matters and I'm wishing you all the best.

"A horseless carriage?? Why on earth would anybody want that??"
"If man were meant to fly God would have given him wings!"
"An engine on a bicycle? Are you daft punk!!"

 

[ST Gui]

Get a mock up of this with trip wire attached. Place it with a key light on it so it can be seen through a window.

 

[T_C]

Get a mock up of this with trip wire attached. Place it with a key light on it so it can be seen through a window.

I'm thinking this was for another thread??

 

[Larry Fine]

I'm thinking this was for another thread??

 

[ST Gui]

I'm thinking this was for another thread??

Yep.

 

[technotony007]

Good evening gentlemen,
I have trying to find out the exact final drive ratio , so i can make some preliminary speed calculations for what to expect out of electric motor direct onto shaft drive setup .

Please can anyone help with the following.

I am in agreement that 4000 RPM in top gear = approx. 70mph

my electric motor revs to 6000rpm max ( with 130nm of torque.) - Therefore will I have a pro rata potential top speed of 105 mph ?

Can anyone conform what the Final drive diff ratio is ?

to every one revolution of the rear wheel , how many turns will the splined drive shaft turn ?

appreciate your help on this.

regards Tony

 

[Larry Fine]

I am in agreement that 4000 RPM in top gear = approx. 70mph

my electric motor revs to 6000rpm max ( with 130nm of torque.) - Therefore will I have a pro rata potential top speed of 105 mph ?

This only applies if the transmission output shaft is 1:1 with the crankshaft RPM.

 

[technotony007]

This only applies if the transmission output shaft is 1:1 with the crankshaft RPM.

Hi larry ,
thanks for that , but do you know what the final drive diff ratio is ?

regards

Tony

 

[Larry Fine]

Hi larry ,
thanks for that , but do you know what the final drive diff ratio is ?

I do not, but the Honda shop manual should say. You can also ask whether anyone has a final drive open, has the parts laying around (pinion and ring gears (info could even be from two different people)), you can find pics clear enough to count the teeth, or someone who has counted gear teeth in the past.

 

[technotony007]

Hi guys ,
after quite a bit of digging on out forum I found :

Final Drive: Enclosed shaft with integrated dampers, 2.833:1

Therefore I believe for every 2.833 turns of the input splined shaft , I should have one full revolution output of the wheel.....

therefore if have up to 6000 turns of the input shaft = 6000 / 2.833 = 2120 revs of wheel.

2120 revs of a 17" wheel ( or approx. say 21" with tyre) = 2120revs x (21 x 25.4 = 533.4 x pie ) = 2120 x 1675mm per minute = 3551000.00 mm

therefore 3551000 / 1000 = 3551 meters per minute.

3551m per minute x 60 = 213060.00m per hour

213060 x 0.62137119 = 132.389346 miles in a hour ( max @ 6000 )


132 mph max speed ?????

WOW !!!!! , does this seem correct ????

regards

Tony

 

[Larry Fine]

Hi guy ,
after quite a bit of digging on out forum I found :

Final Drive: Enclosed shaft with integrated dampers, 2.833:1

Therefore I believe for every 2.833 turns of the splined shaft , I should one full revolution of the wheel.....

With tire circumference, you can calculate shaft RPM/MPH.

 

[STumped]

A quick google search found ST1300 rear tire circumference to be 78.64 inches.

170/60 ZR17 circumference - Google Search

www.google.com

Therefore, 6000/2.833 times 78.64 gives inches/minute
divide by 12 for feet/min
divide by 5280 for mile/min
multiply by 60 for mph

and I came up with 157.719 mph!

You'd probably hit max speed before max rpm due to drag.

 

[technotony007]

A quick google search found ST1300 rear tire circumference to be 78.64 inches.

170/60 ZR17 circumference - Google Search

www.google.com

Therefore, 6000/2.833 times 78.64 gives inches/minute
divide by 12 for feet/min
divide by 5280 for mile/min
multiply by 60 for mph

and I came up with 157.719 mph!

You'd probably hit max speed before max rpm due to drag.

wow ,better result !!

in reality , i am hoping for between 70 to 90mph and i will be happy

My next mission to work out what the theoretical range is going to be with 14 gen 4 leaf batteries to give 96v of power.

best regards

tony

 

[Picopower]

The zero bikes are probably the best today. Range and power goes up every year.it wouldn’t surprise me to see 300 mile range in next couple years.but they are spendy. Retail is like 17 grand for top model. I’ve seen 500 mile like new two year old zeros around 7-9K. 3 years ago they had 50 mile range now over 100. But they look like a klr650. Not a ST1300.
You will have weather protection and baggage capacity. That is unique in electric production bikes I believe.
Good luck, great project. Anxious to see one converted, 20 years from now all new motorcycles will be electric I bet.

 

[technotony007]

The zero bikes are probably the best today. Range and power goes up every year.it wouldn’t surprise me to see 300 mile range in next couple years.but they are spendy. Retail is like 17 grand for top model. I’ve seen 500 mile like new two year old zeros around 7-9K. 3 years ago they had 50 mile range now over 100. But they look like a klr650. Not a ST1300.
You will have weather protection and baggage capacity. That is unique in electric production bikes I believe.
Good luck, great project. Anxious to see one converted, 20 years from now all new motorcycles will be electric I bet.

Thanks Picopower ,
it looks like the current technology is going to be the limiting factor at the range , although with the plan of fitting 14 Gen 4 leaf batteries , fingers crossed I am hoping to see around 100 miles per charge. Then over time I am hoping to upgrade as battery technologies improve and hopefully get cheaper.

tony

 

[SMSW]

for cheapness , i thought for now , fill it will , molten brass , or lead or steel weld and machine match motor to suit.
the heat off the molten metal is putting me off , as it make effect bearing in coupling shell joint.

Something to consider. Here in the USA, when grounding a building many electricians use Cadweld (thats a brand but there are others - Google "exothermic welding'). We use a one shot system* or a graphite mold, clamp it to the building steel or a ground rod. Your wire runs throught the mold. Fill the mold with the powder, top it off w/ a second powder and ignite it either by electricity or w/ a sparker. The mold filling is basically a thermite type mix and the topping is an easy to ignite powder (magnesium based?). The end result is a bronze plug welded to the steel and copper wire. If you are going to use molten brass instead of welding the driveshaft to an adapter, consider investigating these charges. You could make a mold out of plaster of paris (bake it before you use it to drive off moisture) and preheat the mold with a torch to be extra sure the moisture is gone. Any slag rises to the top of the molten metal and the whole thing is done in seconds. I'm not saying this will work for you, but its something to investigate. I'm sure there are similar products on your side of the pond.
*The One-shot consists of a ceramic or plaster mold with a hole at the bottom for your wire. The mold fits over the top of your ground rod, fill it w/ powder, and ignite. Break off the ceramic mold and you have a finished weld of wire to ground rod. Cheap and fast. You can duplicate this by making your own plaster mold. Talk to an electrician.

 

[technotony007]

Something to consider. Here in the USA, when grounding a building many electricians use Cadweld (thats a brand but there are others - Google "exothermic welding'). We use a one shot system* or a graphite mold, clamp it to the building steel or a ground rod. Your wire runs throught the mold. Fill the mold with the powder, top it off w/ a second powder and ignite it either by electricity or w/ a sparker. The mold filling is basically a thermite type mix and the topping is an easy to ignite powder (magnesium based?). The end result is a bronze plug welded to the steel and copper wire. If you are going to use molten brass instead of welding the driveshaft to an adapter, consider investigating these charges. You could make a mold out of plaster of paris (bake it before you use it to drive off moisture) and preheat the mold with a torch to be extra sure the moisture is gone. Any slag rises to the top of the molten metal and the whole thing is done in seconds. I'm not saying this will work for you, but its something to investigate. I'm sure there are similar products on your side of the pond.
*The One-shot consists of a ceramic or plaster mold with a hole at the bottom for your wire. The mold fits over the top of your ground rod, fill it w/ powder, and ignite. Break off the ceramic mold and you have a finished weld of wire to ground rod. Cheap and fast. You can duplicate this by making your own plaster mold. Talk to an electrician.

thanksSMSW

Sounds like a good option , do you have a Link to it , so I can picture it better ?

tony