Trophy 2012 / 2013

[Edmund Kean]

Not sure if a thread for the Trophy has been and gone, indeed I am not sure if the Trophy has arrived in the US yet. I was told (rightly or wrongly) the US launch was going to be sometime in January 2013 so reckoned a few observations might interest those with an inkling to get involved with the marque.

My interest in the Trophy follows a recent effort to find a stable mate or an alternative ride for my Pan, I have tried virtually every large CC machine claiming to have sport / touring credentials. I ride with pillion passenger all of time and have so far tried:


• BMW R1200RT
• BMW R1200GSA
• Honda Crosstourer
• Honda VFR1200
• Kawasaki ZZR1400
• Yamaha FJR1300
• Yamaha Super Tenere


Sadly in one way or another after every test ride and when riding away from the dealer, I am left with no doubt… the Pan is the very best (for two up riding at least) machine for me.

Here are some of my own thoughts on some significant ergos of other machines relative to the Pan.

BMW RT

Better

• Handling though the twisties
• Weight
• Gear changing

Worse

• Engine (torque, speed & vibration)
• Mirrors (not as much information)
• Throttle (finicky and critical)
• Effects of bumpy road surface on throttle hand
• Speed boat like launch off from standstill (front end rises up and back)
• Noise from turbulent wind emanating from the screen
• Annoying lateral kick from engine when accelerating
• General fit and finish
• Has 6 gears

Another consideration worth pondering with the RT is the very many next to new models showing corrosion on the frame at the foot pegs and also on the drive shaft. All in all it’s expensive and infamous for indifferent reliability. Shame really, I think it’s quite a good-looking bike

BMW GSA

Better

• Fuel tank capacity
• High riding position
• Weight
• Gear changing
• Lights
• Luggage capabilities


Worse

• Engine (torque, speed & vibration)
• Throttle (finicky and critical)
• Mirror position
• Effects of bumpy road surface on throttle hand
• Terrible noise from turbulent wind emanating from the screen
• Annoying lateral kick from engine when accelerating
• General fit and finish
• Has 6 gears
• Wind protection during winter
• Turn signal handlebar actuators

Like the RT the frame and other parts are liable to corrode unless all but a very thorough cleaning regime is employed. Reliability issues too. BMW’s are odd in so much that some chug along without any electrical or mechanical problems yet others are cursed with reliability glitches – its just not good enough to have to hope the one your eying up is gonna be okay. I do love the menacing visual appearance though.


Honda Crosstourer

Better

• High riding position
• Weight
• Acceleration


Worse

• Engine vibration (through the pegs, seat and steering)
• Mirrors (unacceptable vibration at any speed)
• Mirror information & position
• Fuel tank capacity
• Throttle (snatchy and critical)
• Slow speed handling
• Handling through the twisties
• Wind protection during winter
• Spongy rear suspension unit (even after stiffening)
• Has 6 gears

It might sound like an odd thing to criticise, but the ignition key barrel is located in quite the strangest position and just a little annoying. The Crosstourer looks ugly too.


Honda VFR

Better

• Acceleration
• Weight


Worse
• Slow speed handling & manoeuvrability (can’t dink it around like the Pan)
• Fuel tank capacity
• Wind protection during winter
• Has 6 gears
• Riding position
• Hard suspension
• Seat (hard and slippery)
• Mirror information

Although there are fewer elements which I find worse, I really dislike this bike as a two-up machine and in essence I would put up with any of the aforementioned bikes’ shortcomings ahead of owning the VFR. I do like its looks though.

Kawasaki ZZR

Better

• Acceleration
• Weight
• Wind noise (eerily quiet)
• Handling through the twisties


Worse

• Slow speed handling & manoeuvrability
• Riding position
• Wind protection during winter

I haven’t mentioned the gears because this bike is capable of reaching insane speeds and clearly needs its 6 gears… in fact I am surprised it doesn’t have 8!

A worthy consideration as a stable mate to the Pan but I just reckon I would be reaching for the Pan’s keys far more often than the ZZR’s.


Yamaha FJR

Better

• Seating of pillion passenger juxtaposition to rider (closer together and level)
• Gear changes (worth mentioning as it is a very very slick change)
• Weight
• Seats (comfort and material)


Worse

• Width of handlebars
• Cramped riding position (legs)
• Engine vibration through the seats
• Pillion passenger kept hearing irritating engine notes at certain speeds

A worthy competitor and alternative to the Pan. I was looking forward to experiencing the “legendary” acceleration and speed of this machine. Whether it because I was as ever with pillion, I initially found the FJR no quicker than the Pan. I did work out pretty quickly that the power bands seem to occur at significantly higher revs than the Pan’s. Once I had worked this out the bike became quite fun. Sadly though the second hand example I tested had worn tyres and such the bike’s handling was clearly compromised as it was nothing like as good as my Pan in the twisties.

The handle bar width is narrow, so much so that the following day (have ridden 70 miles on the FJR) both pectoral muscles ached! I don’t really suppose much can be done about this as there is already quite enough arm and elbow occupying the view in the mirrors. Any more width to the bars and I reckon the mirrors would be rendered pointless.

Build quality seems high although around the cockpit, the materials seem a little delicate and prone to scratching. Nevertheless there is definitely an air of quality about the machine, even the turn signal actuator felt smoother and better to operate.

However good the FJR was, I still felt on a superior machine as I rode away from the dealer on my Pan.

Before purchasing my Pan the FJR was the only other bike I tried. Back then I thought the Pan was just better and I still do.


Yamaha Super Tenere

Better

• Riding position
• Weight
• Gear changes
? Seats and material


Worse

• Acceleration
• Wind protection during the winter
• Awful noise from wind turbulence – origin: the screen
• Has 6 gears
• Front fork diving even under moderate braking
• Footbrake position feels too tucked in to the bike itself

I very nearly bought one of these. The engine although crude sounding is torquey, smooth and pacey. Handling is crisp for the style of machine and is great fun. The bike is well built but the wind noise would have been a real problem – it was just unacceptable. I frequently read on forums people buying machines only to regret they have after spending hundreds trying to cure horrendous turbulence. I won’t be making that mistake.


Triumph Explorer

Better

Apart from weight, from my point of view, I could not actually find anything that was a significant improvement over the Pan. Even the higher seating position didn’t feel quite right. Difficult to put my finger on it… I just felt I was sitting in the middle of the bike. Perhaps not being used this is the reason for objecting.

Worse

• Throttle (“ride by wire” I believe. Operates critically and snatchily)
• Slower speed handling (flops around too much with minimal inputs)
• Wind noise
• Acceleration
• Handlebar width (felt very wide)
• Has 6 gears

The Explorer for me just didn’t feel like a worthy tourer. Strangely, I didn’t find much to fault with the bike its just I got the overwhelming impression it was the type of bike that goes out within a fifty mile radius of home and then is home every night. Not very logical or rational thinking I know but maybe a subconscious routine at work inside my head because I know nothing about Triumph backup and reliability. As a UK resident I should perhaps be flying the flag a little more than this?

The “flopping” around handling was sort of interesting to start with but after time became a nuisance which was far too intrusive. Not sure what causes it, maybe the back tyre is weeny bit too narrow and the centre of gravity a bit high.

I did try a Ducati Multistrada for five minutes…that was about all I could tolerate. The engine causes so much vibration I really couldn’t consider riding that thing for more than thirty miles at a time. Having ridden the Pan for so long I have clearly become snobbish about engine vibration!


What about the Kawasaki GTR1400? Haven’t gone out of my way to find one to ride yet.


To the Trophy:

I went to the launch night which occurred nationwide on 1st November. First impression was how huge the vehicle is. Its size dwarfs the Pan’s legendary on the road presence. Moreover the dealership had a used Pan in their showroom and as I wandered back from it, the Trophy made it look diminutive and insignificant.

Here are a couple of features I noticed which could be a problem and some other observations:

• The rear suspension unit is located very low to the road and I would say vulnerable to muck and grit fling from the rear wheel.

• The panniers are on some kind of rocker system. Considering the thousands of movement this mechanism or material will be subject to on just one ride, it better be good.

• I didn’t sit on the bike, but gauging from the range of blokes who did, I would say slow riding through junctions in rural settings might just challenge the confidence of riders less than 5’ 10”. It’s a big bike and if you are a tad short you might have to put up with deploying the aesthetically uncool practice of putting both feet down when at standstill.

• For me the plastics, fit and general finish isn’t on a par with the Pan.


When I get to ride it I will share my thoughts, although increasingly I am left to believe there is no bike that compares to the ST1300.

Most of the bikes mentioned in this piece boast many more rider aids or comforts which, I have deliberately refrained from mentioning. To me most are unimportant and have no bearing on why I love to ride a bike.

What’s the 6th gear remark all about? Many of you Pan/ST riders will understand, but for those who don’t, go and ride a Pan and enjoy the simplicity of having 5 gears. In the UK with all our delightful rural roads having just 5 gears is a real joy. Only ever use 5th on motorways or dual carriageways.

 

[Bones]

That's a lot of input. Looking forward to seeing the genuine article Trophy in person come January.

 

[acedantinne]

Have U tried the, or any Moto Guzzi?

 

[Ken H]

Have U tried the, or any Moto Guzzi?

or the Tiger 800?

 

[Firstpeke]

An interesting article, but of course, as always, everyone is different in height, shape, riding style, preference and financial ability......

So, whilst interesting from your point of view, we don't know how your height is made up of torso length versus inside leg length... or how long your arms are, your weight, your neck length... all of which changes each and every thing that you look for in a bike.

This is not a criticism of your post, more an observation on what makes each of us different in our preference for which machine we ultimately choose to ride.

Theoretically, I don't fit the ST1100, but the two I have had have been the best bike(s) I have ever ridden.... it is unfortunate that I may not be able to ride another one after my last spill.....

 

[Mellow]

Since I've had a Super Tenere since Aug of last year, can address some of the comments:

Yamaha Super Tenere

Better

? Riding position
? Weight
? Gear changes
? Seats and material
I didn't care for the oem seat at all, way too soft and the slope forward was very bad. Many, including myself, would take the rear bump stops
and cut or replace them by .5 inches to lower the rear part of the seat. I currently have a Sargent seat and they fixed the forward slope and
so far it's been a great seat.

? S/T Mode - I would add this as a positive as the (T)ouring Mode allows the throttle to be a bit lazy for lack of a better description,
great in stop/go traffic and also great for off road riding. The (S)port mode gives the snappy throttle response of the ST1300 but
without the twitchy on/off feeling so Yamaha did a great job here and the new FJR is supposed to have the same throttle by wire
system.
? Brake Maintenance - I just have to say that they way Yamaha did their linked braking system is great and makes the brake bleeding
as simple as possible - one bleed valve per caliper and that's it. You can bleed a system in 15 mins and that's taking your time.


Worse

? Acceleration
Going from a V4 to a parallel Twin there may be a perceived acceleration issue, you didn't give any details so I don't know what you mean.
It takes some time to get used to how that Twin works and once you get used to it it has about 95% of the acceleration that the ST1300
has.

? Wind protection during the winter
I added an MRA Spoiler and the OEM wind deflectors on mine and that made it a great touring machine from the wind protection point of view.
It's still a 10-20 degree cooler machine to ride IMO, just due to the lack of FULL fairings. If you pulled out your heated gear at 40 degrees
with the ST, you may reach for it at 50 on the Yamaha or just layer more than you would on the ST for that same range. The foot area isn't
as protected, I agree with that.

? Awful noise from wind turbulence ? origin: the screen
For me - fixed with the MRA spoiler.

? Has 6 gears
I'm neutral on this - pun intended - 6 gears are nice but 5 would have worked just as well. The 6th gear is pretty tall feeling on this bike and
that could be going from the V4 to Twin aspect again. It does not feel like it's working hard at all in 6th and still has fair acceleration there
as well.

? Front fork diving even under moderate braking
You have front fork dampening, rebound and preload settings which is interesting coming from the ST which has nothing. From the factory they are
typically set in the middle position and it takes a bit of playing around to get it just right. There still is some dive but I believe Yamaha made the
suspension to handle quite well off road 1st and it surprised me how well it did that. If you ride primarily pavement then you need to adjust to the
higher marks on the adjustments to get a more tight road bike feel. You also get preload and rebound settings on the rear shock as well. Mine are
currently set about at the 3/4 range and I find that acceptable. It handles twisties well yet will jump a speed bump and land softly whereas you'd
have mirror covers hanging off on the ST .

? Footbrake position feels too tucked in to the bike itself
This was very weird at first. But, you have to understand the linked brakes on the Tenere. 1 - hitting the foot brake 1st, will only activate the rear brake.
This is done to help with off road riding which many times you do while standing on the pegs and if you do that, the pedal is exactly where it needs
to be. Over time, you get used to it and don't even notice it anymore. 2 - Using the front brake lever activates the linked brakes. All Super Teneres come
with ABS and linked brakes. The only differences are the California model has the charcoal canister for fuel overflow when filling up.

? Fuel Range
I'm not going to add all the good stuff without some bad stuff. I get to about 180 miles before the fuel light starts blinking. That means I have roughly 1
gallon left. So a usable range of about 200-220. I've extended that a few miles by punching holes in the fuel filler neck which makes you stop filling early
and gives you a few ounces more. I've never needed that extra 5-10 miles that might give me but better safe than sorry - you do get very spoiled by
the range of an ST.

 

[Edmund Kean]

Maybe a little misleading is my use of the phrase "riding position". All I am in fact referring to is, a higher head position to enjoy all those wonderful views whilst touring. For me at least enjoying the scenery is a wonderful experience and I am merely referring to a higher vantage point relative to the Pan's.

About screens. Just about every bike I ride I will move around and adopt various positions as though I were a different shape or height. As such and in the main, I have found bikes which are quiet to start with remain reasonably quiet wherever I put my head and bikes which are noisy to varying degrees stay noisy short of standing bolt upright in which case I get to momentarily hear myself think whilst enjoying the relative calm of "clean air".

Mellow...

It niggles me people are either forced or inquisitive to find a better solution to the OEM screens supplied on their bikes. Tell me something, did you change your screen on the Tenere because of noise or because you wanted more protection or was it both? And was it because of your (presumably) extensive association with the ST that you felt things could be better?

 

[Mellow]

Mellow...

It niggles me people are either forced or inquisitive to find a better solution to the OEM screens supplied on their bikes. Tell me something, did you change your screen on the Tenere because of noise or because you wanted more protection or was it both? And was it because of your (presumably) extensive association with the ST that you felt things could be better?

I didn't feel any buffeting from the oem shield but yes, it was noisier than what I'm used to w/ST... That's just how a bike with smaller shield and less fairing is going to be, simple physics. I had tried a Givi shield for it before going with the mra spoiler and the givi shield, while bigger, was worse for me. The mra spoiler provides the push of air over my helmet that I am used to on the ST. The oem deflectors are easy to take on/off and give you more air in the summer and less in the winter, I'm not sure if they help w/noise issue, the spoiler seemed to make the most difference.

I'm sure going to just about any bike from the ST will spoil you with regards to wind protection. As stated previously, people are very unique in height/weight/inseam/arm length/torso length/ etc... so, tough for a manufacturer to make a bike that fits everyone... some of the fun is making the small tweaks that work for you.. but annoying that you have to, yes.

 

[ESB]

Trophy's due out at dealers in JAN. 13. - Very limited supply, and most presold - Not many demos, but did find a dealer near Nevada, Missouri that will have a demo after first deliveries -- LOL S B

 

[dduelin]

I sat on a new Trophy this afternoon. This particular bike is not for sale and is consigned to the Triumph area rep but the dealer was allowed to assemble it and put it out in the showroom.

First impression upon seeing it across the room and then approaching it from the front - Huge. From the rear - Wide. It is extremely bulky and dwarfs an ST1300 in exterior dimensions. The fairing below the tank cover above the engine is almost as wide as the mirrors. My legs would likely be completely out of the wind behind the huge fairing bulges ahead of the rider. Like the Explorer the fairing pieces and parts thereof are fussy looking with lots of joint gaps and angles between pieces. The panniers look to be large and capacious but are free to swing back and forth on some sort of interconnected mount. Push on one and the other moves away sort of like the system on the old Sprint 1050. The idea may be sound but I imagine the panniers are going to be moving around alot when the bike is in motion. The impression it gave me was flimsy. This pannier mount design is supposed to add stability but it would seem that when they are loaded and packed heavy you wouldn't want their mass banging back and forth. This bike has a LoRide seat on it. I could just touch the toes and balls of my feet like on my ST with a Sargent seat in the low position. The bars are lower and closer than my stock ergos ST. I predict risers are going to be popular but don't bring the bars back any more - just up. My back/spine was more or less vertical with no forward lean. The pegs are higher and further forward. I'm short of inseam and the angle of my knee is greater than on a stock ST1300 because the pegs are so close. For such a bulky bike the ergos seem closer than an ST. This could have been because of the LoRide seat moving the seat closer to the pegs. The feeling was similar to sitting in a dining room chair with ankles under the knee rather than under the hips like other sport touring and adventure bikes.

 

[Firstpeke]

Interesting to see someone cast a "critical" eye over the Trophy.....

I seem to remember when I saw the VFR1200 with panniers for the first time, thinking just how flimsy and cheap the plastics felt and looked compared to my ST1100..... ah well, that's what the industry calls progress......

Make it cheaper, sell it dearer....... charge exorbitant sums for parts and repairs, in the event of a spill then causes a bike to be written off for mostly plastic damage, result, new bike sold...... not restricted to Honda then....

Interestingly, those over here who have ridden the Trophy find it rather good....... too rich for my bank account, but then, aren't they all going that way?

 

[dduelin]

Interestingly, those over here who have ridden the Trophy find it rather good....... too rich for my bank account, but then, aren't they all going that way?

Agreed, the first ride reports I have seen in Rider and Bike found the handling of the Trophy very good. The Bike first ride was 700 miles in wet UK weather and the big fairing provided excellent weather protection. I am probably priced out of the new sport touring or adventure bike class now but the good thing is that there are plenty of owners that will be selling clean examples in the future.

 

[4jranch]

The New issue of Ride Magazine here in the UK has just landed on my doorstep. In it is a report of a test ride which specifically compares the ST1300 with the Trophy, and the BMW RT with the Trophy. An ST1300 owner was taken out with his bike and pillion for 2 days to ride the Trophy SE. The report is interesting, but inconclusive from my point of view. Basically, it would take a lot to prise someone off an ST1300. The Trophy has a lot, but the ST1300 owner wasn't about to jump ship. Good read, and I still want to test ride the Trophy to find out for myself.

Would be great to have a chance to read the article. Still love my ST...

 

[Skunkape]

One thing I keep hearing over and over from people who see one is how big it is. That's one thing that won't appeal to me. Bet it's a nice ride even though.

 

[Bones]

One thing I keep hearing over and over from people who see one is how big it is. That's one thing that won't appeal to me.

I'm having similar thoughts.

 

[Dinkie Diesel]

I'm excited to hear how big it is but the talk of the moving saddlebags could be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Skunkape]

If the bags work like they do on the Tiger 800 they just swing a little at the bottom. Triumph says it increases stability. I don't think you ever know they moving.

 

[Mellow]

The Honda Top Box sold in Europe had the built in sideways movement that was supposed to help the bike's stability.

 

[dduelin]

............ Main reason I have no interest in the Trophy, besides price.... the overall size. Although, if a larger bike is your desire, should it be considered competition for a Goldwing? Bells & whistles make this bike more like a BMW RT/LT or Honda Wing.... bigger & more stuff....

My thoughts exactly based on relative size but in press release info Triumph say the Trophy's rivals are the Concours 1400, ST1300, and BMW R1200RT. Go figure.

 

[Skunkape]

Looks like the wheelbase is between an ST 1100 and ST 1300. Weight about the same as the 1300. Width about 1/2 inch wider I think. More HP and features.