$300 '97 ST1100 Refurb Thread

[Smudgemo]

So it's Mother's Day, my wife is sleeping in and I'm in the garage looking at the bike thinking, "You know, it would sure be easy to pull the valve covers and check the valve clearance. Or I could skip that and assume it's good. Besides, what am I going to do, go through the shimming process now?" And of course, I can't not bother now that it's in my head, so I pull the front wheel for a better view of the crank position and get to it.

I pull the right cover and everything looks okay..

Except, hey, who gooped all this sealer on this gasket?


Looking more closely at the block, I can see there's some left there I need to remove. Maybe this engine isn't as sensitive, but the SOHC4 guys would get worked up about excess or the wrong sort of sealer used which often blocks tiny oil passages. Some of this gray sealer was on the timing belt cover, so I don't think the mechanic was super-careful in any way. I tried to clean up the gaskets, but gave up and I'm ordering some new ones. That and some new oil donuts for the cover bolts.

And speaking of cover bolts, those sure are some funky bolts Honda designed. Mine were a bit rusty so I turned (again) to the aluminum foil and water before a quick bit of chrome polishing (all by hand.)




Then, because there never seems to be a rabbit hole I won't go down, I started cleaning up the covers. In a previous installment, I noted they were corroded. I just did a quick prep by scraping the corrosion, sanding with an abrasive pad, and High-temp primer paint.



I taped nickels and dropped them in the bolt holes.



Doesn't match, but at least the paint is okay. I'm going to skip painting the front cover because it's plastic.


Wait, what was I in there for? Oh right, valve check! Everything is in spec except two intakes were .001" too large of a gap. I'm going to leave it for now and assume the engine won't grenade.

Anyone have a preference for a gasket sealer for the new gaskets? I assume a small amount on both sides is appropriate? I have some Permatex Black Rubber Sealant, should that be suitable.

When I went to put the front wheel back on, I noticed the speedo gearbox looked like it had aquarium gravel inside it, so I took it apart and cleaned that out. I should probably use a heavy grease like wheel bearing grease? I don't see any mention in the manual.


The brake parts arrived, so I might start to tackle that soon. Bummer, I was hoping to fire it up and see how it runs, but I'm going to wait on the new gaskets.

 

[ReSTored]

Anyone have a preference for a gasket sealer for the new gaskets? I assume a small amount on both sides is appropriate? I have some Permatex Black Rubber Sealant, should that be suitable.

I used HondaBond, but Permatex is probably OK. Just a bit on the half moons and about 1/2" beyond is fine. Replacing the rubber crush washers (whatever they are called) is key to ensuring you have the right pressure on the gaskets so they don't leak. Ensure you don't overtighten the bolts as apparently they snap off quite easily.

 

[dwalby]

Anyone have a preference for a gasket sealer for the new gaskets? I assume a small amount on both sides is appropriate? I have some Permatex Black Rubber Sealant, should that be suitable.

I'm guessing that the excess goop on the gasket may have been to compensate for the grommets under the bolt heads being compressed, and not doing their job.

If you notice the bolts have a shoulder on them, so they will only go in so far before bottoming out on the shoulder. So, the clamping force applied by the bolt head is a direct function of the thickness of the grommet between the bolt and the valve cover. They compress over time, buy new ones and you should be OK with no gasket sealer, except for maybe a little dab on the half-moon sections.

edit: I see ReSTored and I were both saying the same thing at the same time, but he beat me to it by a minute.

 

[ChriSTian_64]

Hey, @Smudgemo, thanks for the trick with aluminum foil and water. My cover bolts heads are a bit rusty, too. I was looking for a way to remove that bit of rust there.

 

[Jevers]

So it's Mother's Day, my wife is sleeping in and I'm in the garage looking at the bike thinking, "You know, it would sure be easy to pull the valve covers and check the valve clearance. Or I could skip that and assume it's good. Besides, what am I going to do, go through the shimming process now?" And of course, I can't not bother now that it's in my head, so I pull the front wheel for a better view of the crank position and get to it.

I pull the right cover and everything looks okay..
View attachment 274316
Except, hey, who gooped all this sealer on this gasket?
View attachment 274318

Looking more closely at the block, I can see there's some left there I need to remove. Maybe this engine isn't as sensitive, but the SOHC4 guys would get worked up about excess or the wrong sort of sealer used which often blocks tiny oil passages. Some of this gray sealer was on the timing belt cover, so I don't think the mechanic was super-careful in any way. I tried to clean up the gaskets, but gave up and I'm ordering some new ones. That and some new oil donuts for the cover bolts.

And speaking of cover bolts, those sure are some funky bolts Honda designed. Mine were a bit rusty so I turned (again) to the aluminum foil and water before a quick bit of chrome polishing (all by hand.)

View attachment 274319
View attachment 274320

Then, because there never seems to be a rabbit hole I won't go down, I started cleaning up the covers. In a previous installment, I noted they were corroded. I just did a quick prep by scraping the corrosion, sanding with an abrasive pad, and High-temp primer paint.

View attachment 274321

I taped nickels and dropped them in the bolt holes.

View attachment 274323

Doesn't match, but at least the paint is okay. I'm going to skip painting the front cover because it's plastic.
View attachment 274324

Wait, what was I in there for? Oh right, valve check! Everything is in spec except two intakes were .001" too large of a gap. I'm going to leave it for now and assume the engine won't grenade.

Anyone have a preference for a gasket sealer for the new gaskets? I assume a small amount on both sides is appropriate? I have some Permatex Black Rubber Sealant, should that be suitable.

When I went to put the front wheel back on, I noticed the speedo gearbox looked like it had aquarium gravel inside it, so I took it apart and cleaned that out. I should probably use a heavy grease like wheel bearing grease? I don't see any mention in the manual.
View attachment 274325

The brake parts arrived, so I might start to tackle that soon. Bummer, I was hoping to fire it up and see how it runs, but I'm going to wait on the new gaskets.

Nice work on the ol st and even nicer work sharing the entire process with all of us! Yes, wheel bearing grease ( or possibly any type of grease) will work for the speedo drive. Keep up the good work! Jevers

 

[Smudgemo]

Got it. A dab of sealer on the half-moons and a torque wrench. I always grab a torque wrench when doing this sort of work, so unless one has been previously damaged, I should be good to go. The great thing about some of this work is that I haven't done it to my '96 but intend to. I feel less pressure with this one to do things perfectily, and I'll better understand the nuances and potentially greater complexity of an ABS machine.

 

[dwalby]

Got it. A dab of sealer on the half-moons and a torque wrench. I always grab a torque wrench when doing this sort of work, so unless one has been previously damaged, I should be good to go. The great thing about some of this work is that I haven't done it to my '96 but intend to. I feel less pressure with this one to do things perfectily, and I'll better understand the nuances and potentially greater complexity of an ABS machine.

just a hint, if you tighten them by feel you will easily notice when the shoulder bottoms out. They turn with no resistance at all, and then just stop turning all of a sudden. I've never used a torque wrench on mine, doesn't seem to be necessary because you're not really stretching the bolt with torque, you're just turning it until it hits the shoulder stop. If you use a torque wrench, and have the torque set too high, uncalibrated wrench, or whatever, you could end up bottoming out the shoulder and snap off the threads in the head. Its been reported here before, so just a warning to not make it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[Smudgemo]

Earlier today I had a 1:1 scheduled with my boss who is a CFO, and he asked if we could skip it because he was pressed for time doing C stuff, I guess. Being that we're in the middle of May and the sun comes up at like 3:30 these days, I was up at 4:30 with the dog happily tagging along to go out and get fed. FOOD MOTIVATED, that one. But she's cute, so it's cool.

So anyhow, he bails at the last minute and I'm thinking HONDA! And tomorrow I don't really need to make my car available to my high school kid, so I could take my wheels in for some new rubber installed at the local indy shop..

1, 2, 6 and off comes the rear wheel. The brake disc is looking pretty crunchy, but it's in working order so I clean it up and reinstall it for proper balancing. I also installed the brand new used front discs I got from Denver as is. Maybe I'll paint the centers later, maybe I won't.


Next is the brake caliper. I'm thinking it should be in good shape since the brake seems to work properly, unlike the fronts. But no, the pistons are in worse shape than the fronts, and the brake fluid behind them resembles the gelatinous goo underneath a Costco roast chicken after it cools off in the fridge (you know, the part the dog likes best..) Well, the seals came out easily, and all the schmutz washed away with brake cleaner. Some corrosion between the seals and on the exterior of the caliper, but it should all clean up. Dremel? Oh no, I have a Foredom tool that just needs an appropriate wheel to not damage anything but the dirt and corrosion.



"But the splines!!', you are wondering. Yes, splines. This bike has them, and gosh-darn if they don't look like new, just as the PO claimed. So what sort of lube do I put on them? Just kidding. Don't even weigh in. I already have a can of Loctite ready to go, and three new o-rings - this ain't my first rodeo. It's my second, but I'm up to speed now.



But the brake pads, the sad, sorry brake pads. Not expected, and now I'm really glad I rented a trailer to get this thing home to casa Smudgemo for some loving. Granted it's just the rear wheel, but still, all I did was extract them..



Damn pads are expensive! So what's left of the bike (and it looks like a bike if you turn your head sideways and squint hard) is sitting there hoping to get some new shoes in a day or so. Carbs are done and ready to install, but the throttle cable adjuster is borked and I decided to replace the cable because safety and all that.

OH! And the cush drive rubbers are hard as rocas, loose as can be and have dropped a ton of rubber dust upon disassembly. Back to the parts people.

I'm blowing through my soft-budget quickly, but therapy, therapy, it's therapy. This is good for my mind and soul.. And my wife is good with it, so I press on.

 

[Oldbikefixr]

Smudgemo.....I went through my 1991 back in the Autumn, once the garage was comfortable to be in all day long. Leaking fuel and coolant from the vee area under the carbs.

Noticed your heat shield was installed with the 'bib' forward. I checked the manuals and yours is correct.
Mine, I reinstalled with the triangular section aft, hanging down between the engine and fuel tank. This is the way it was installed when I went into it. It had just over 20k miles on it at the time. The shop I bought it from claimed the carbs were rebuilt. Loose boot clamps indicated they had been removed earlier (their definition of 'rebuilt' needs a revisit). No evidence the mat had been reoriented as all the preformed holes fit all the original hoses, and it was 'heat draped over the PAIR components. So, that's the way I reinstalled it.

My thoughts are...
-per the book: air is forced between the heat mat and top of the engine with little forced airflow between the mat and carbs.
-per the as-found installation: some air will be scooped between the engine and mat as the front edge is elevated. Most airflow will pass between the carbs and mat. The bib will provide some insulation between the engine and fuel tank.

Most riding days have been between 40-something F and high 70's. Several high 80 degree days with one at 92F with no noticeable feel to the temps radiating from the area...temp readings seem unchanged both highway and in traffic. I don't see a problem leaving it as I reinstalled it but my OCD is ringing a bit so I thought I would bring this up.

Do you, or anyone else wishing to comment, see any issues with my backwards mat?

 

[Smudgemo]

About the only thing I can say is that it came out this way, and based on the hole locations and sizes, and the shape, it seems correct. About the only thing I was personally wondering about was the vacuum hoses being above the mat, but I don't know why it would be an issue either way.

I did find cush-drive rubber blocks are now back-ordered, too. I do hope Covid and that ship getting stuck are the culprits and it's temporary, but CMSNL has them in stock and it'll end up costing maybe $10 more than Adept if I can cancel my order. The uipper radiator hose on back-order (!) - was hoping to start this thing soon, but not with the water pump running dry. Luckily it looks like they have that in stock as well. They had a lot of the parts I needed for my '76 CB, so not surprising they'd have stuff for this bike.

 

[Erdoc48]

Nice work! The 2 valves a bit on the loose side will likely never cause an issue and will likely stay that way indefinitely. Regarding the paint job as well as the bolts...very, very nice and I don’t think the front of the ‘valve cover’ (the plastic part) is even visible anyway. Those brake pads look like hell. I wonder if just corrosion with time did that. Was it an outdoor stored bike?

 

[Smudgemo]

Was it an outdoor stored bike?

My understanding is that it was non-op for 5-6 years. and lived under a cover in a spot near the bay for at least the last number of years if not longer. The differences between this one and my '96 that lived life inland from here is very noticeable, but most likely the non-op part was the real killer.

But this old girl is getting a new lease on life, and what's not to like about that?

 

[dwalby]

The differences between this one and my '96 that lived life inland from here is very noticeable, but most likely the non-op part was the real killer.

yeah, the notion of a "California vehicle" being immune from rust only applies if you're living inland, along the coast is brutal. I had a friend years ago (early-mid '90s) who brought his dad's '67 Mustang convertable down to San Diego with the intention of restoring it. It spent its entire life beachfront in Malibu and after removing the seats and carpet the interior looked like it had been immersed in a salt bath for a year.

that salt air wreaks havoc with lots of different metals, not just steel.

 

[paulcb]

yeah, the notion of a "California vehicle" being immune from rust only applies if you're living inland, along the coast is brutal. I had a friend years ago (early-mid '90s) who brought his dad's '67 Mustang convertable down to San Diego with the intention of restoring it. It spent its entire life beachfront in Malibu and after removing the seats and carpet the interior looked like it had been immersed in a salt bath for a year.

that salt air wreaks havoc with lots of different metals, not just steel.

Curious... how far do you have to go inland to get away from the salt air? I assume topography would affect that as well as distance?

 

[Smudgemo]

Not far. I'm in the Berkeley Hills probably a mile from the water and have had my car since 2005, and nothing is corroded. My bike was parked feet from the water these last years. Definitely a maritime feel to things around there. I suspect a garage spot would have made a noticeable difference, but it's all just speculation. I grew up in WI - I know rust and this is nothing.

 

[Smudgemo]

I got a bunch of reminders yesterday from coworkers that indeed, it was Friday and the weekend was in sight. And actually, they were right. Saturday dawns, and I'm trying to figure out what sort of Honda-branded trouble I want to get into. It's weird because I have steps laid out in my mind, but all of a sudden I find myself working on something completely different, or even unexpected.

Since my daughter finished up AP exams yesterday, I figured I'd keep it kinda quiet and dig into the master cylinder rebuild I started last night. If you've never done one, you really should. It's exciting (not really) and kinda cool to see how this sort of thing functions (actually interesting..) First step, remove it and tear it apart. The lever was sort of a funky removal process, and the dust seal has seen better days.



Good luck removing the retaining clip if your pliers aren't up to snuff. Mine are. Barely. I recommend a nice, soft diaper for a work surface, mostly because they absorb and don't hide parts you don't want to lose (not to mention reminding me of how much more fun this is than using a diaper for what it was made to do...) Just for funsies, I laid out the rebuilt kit parts on the right to get a sense of what goes where.



In an earlier installment, I noted that the left front disc had a plethora of cracks, which seemed strange since the right side was fine. But I also noticed that the front brakes were dragging. I didn't make any assumptions because this bike was sitting for years, and where to start, right?

But as I take things apart, I notice that the interior of one of the caliper bores has some strange scoring, so maybe a piston wasn't retracting? But even more bewildering was that the pivot collar in 13-5 of the manual that was supposed to be installed in the anti-dive piston was actually installed in the caliper bracket, which makes me wonder if the caliper was prevented from functioning properly, thereby allowing the brakes to drag, thereby causing excessive heat, thereby causing disc cracks and forcing me to buy parts I didn't anticipate. This is how it should look per the manual.




And when you've got rebuilt calipers (notice the pivot collar attached to the caliper bracket on the lower far-right before I noticed the error):




And a place to put them:


You feel like the world is your oyster (Pacific Oyster, not Rocky Mountain Oysters. I was there when the vet showed up on my Grandpa's dairy farm. No thanks.)

One other minor detail that would be major if it stopped working properly is the shifter. It's a little difficult to get to, but not impossible. Unbolt that bad-boy, and lube the joints so the function is smoooooth like new. And shoot, the dust seals are older than my kids and only a few bucks each, so two please. Oh, and give me a new rubber shift boot. Aluminum chrome paint makes the whole thing pop! Assuming you care. I had a can on the shelf, so I care.



Oh yeah, that's good shifting!!



And in the end, things are headed in the right direction.

Wait, I still have this whole extra day off to do more work! Brakes, brakes, brakes!

 

[Smudgemo]

Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! The day broke cold and overcast, but the garage was calling, and when there's work to be done, you get after it.

Continuing on with the master rebuild, I got it to the point where I felt it was sufficiently clean for me to not let self-doubt creep back later on. Maybe. Everything went together easily with the seal that is mounted on the piston being the one piece that is a bit tricky to get mounted. You can't have the inside folded over itself and expect things to work correctly.



Once the piston, spring and seals all get situated, the cir-clip will snap into place using a deep socket after using the pliers to get it into the bore.



Make sure the lip of the dust boot fits into the groove on the piston so it isn't contacted by the brake lever.


And that concludes the master rebuild. I soaked the various adjustment hardware in EvapoRust, and polished up the brass bits so everything is working rather smooothly.



One thing I happened to notice before I took everything apart was that the front brake didn't seem to activate the brake lights, and this is why - no tone. Darn mounting screw was so corroded I had to grab a visegrips to break it free. New switch and screw will be ordered shortly.


Purely cosmetic, but I cleaned up the front brake lines with some Bon Ami and a kitchen scrubbie pad. Looks like the covering was breached in a couple of spots and I've got rust in there. Left one is done.


Moving to the rear caliper rebuild, I got it cleaned up pretty well, but didn't get new pistons yet so I decided to hold off on going any further right now.




Since I ran out of parts to do anything mechanical, I decided to do some work I thought would happen further down the road. Might as well mount the USB outlet and might as well do it the same as last time. This time I thought of a more clever way to hold the work for opening the holder, though.




I also scrubbed the dash with Simple Green, then some Mother's Back to Black cleaner, finished with the restorer spray. And I painted the rusty, rusty horn with some rust-killing paint.





It's looking good, but that one screw on the clutch master looks like it got stuck and someone used a less than suitable screwdriver on it. It's like $3 for a screw!




And finally, I got some LED headlights installed with the required adapter rings. How anyone could install even regular bulbs without taking apart the front end is a mystery to me. I was also going to install a new dust boot on the clutch master piston, but I want to shorten the push rod and it seems like a better bet to at least ride it first to see what the action is like.

So that's a Sunday in the garage at my place. Parts showing up this week should allow me to mount the cam covers, but it looks like I'm going be another week or two from getting the final radiator hose I need before I try firing it up.

 

[Sadlsor]

Wish I had this kind of time...

 

[Smudgemo]

It's a US-made JIS metric crescent wrench. I needed something to hold down the diaper.
Have teenagers. They don't go looking for you unless they want the car keys.

 

[Smudgemo]

I had a parts order show up last night, and just couldn't resist ducking out to the garage to push the ball forward a bit. New cover gaskets and seals so I got the covers mounted, and NO broken bolts - woo!




Rear caliper pistons and misc. pieces were in the box, but I decided to hold off. Instead I pulled the right step panel to access the rear master for the rebuild kit I have on order.



The rear master, engine, inside of the step, anything made of aluminum is really corroded. I'll probably scrub this down a bit with a brass bristle brush and give it a coat of Boeshield T-9. I feel like the Boeshield and Silicone Paste are two chemicals that get more use than just about anything else in my garage - highly recommended stuff.



I also got the speedo cable and the A throttle cable replaced. Luckily I dropped a screw from the control into the engine because I noticed one of the carb drain lines fell off. Lucky because I was able to both find the screw and pop the drain line back on. Get yourself one of those magnets on the telescoping handle if you don't have one. Gravity never quits, so I use that one all the time.