NT1100 is it the new ST?

Andrew Shadow

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Andrew, you might give this outfit a call. I have used them before but not sure if they deal across the border. https://www.gmgaugerepair.com/
Thanks Paul. If ever I need to do such a repair again, I can give them a try.

The problem was the stepper motor that moves the gauge needle. I ended up unsoldering a fuel gauge stepper motor from an instrument cluster from a scrap vehicle and soldering it in to my cluster. It has been working fine since last fall.
 
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They are not alone.

Last fall the fuel gauge stopped working in my 2010 GMC. The gauge itself was the problem, so I needed a new gauge- no longer available.
The complete instrument cluster was not expensive, so I thought I'll just change the whole thing- no longer available.
O.K., option three. GM has certified repair facilities in every market where instrument clusters can be sent for GM certified and warrantied repair. I figured I'll send it out and have it repaired. The repair facility responded that they no longer service that model- it is to old and they can't get the parts anymore.

Last week I went to a GM dealer to buy an air filter for this same 2010 GMC. The parts guy tells me he doesn't have one in stock and that he can't order one because it is discontinued. An air filter for a twelve year old GM vehicle is discontinued, really!
He told me that this is becoming more common the last few years. It seems once a vehicle has past the ten year mark, parts start being discontinued. He says that he encounters this often now.

If this continues, vehicles will become disposal items just like everything else that we buy and can not repair.
They quit making parts for these machines because tight wads like us would still be driving / riding our current vehicles for the next 50 years.
 

Andrew Shadow

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What causes the mysterious ST1300 FI light that I see threads posted on?
And the search for a spare ECM that pops up?
Overwhelmingly, it is a fault code 25 or 26, which is a problem detected in the knock sensor system. This seems to affect 2007 and older model years. Honda changed something in the ECM for the 2008 and later model years which seems to have fixed the problem. The search for ECM's is usually to deal with this. I don't recall much in the way of people looking for an ECM for 2008 and later model years.

I have to wonder how much of what you write is because carburetors is what you are familiar with, and what you know and understand. I used to work as GM factory certified mechanic in a GM dealership. I grew up with carburetors, and started working in the dealership when there was both carbureted and fuel injected vehicles. Consequently I had to be trained on and learn both systems and how to work on them. By the time that I left, there were no carbureted vehicles, they were all fuel injection in Canada starting in 1985. When I left that dealership, all of the younger mechanics had never worked on a carbureted engine, didn't study it in school, and didn't know anything about them. I can tell you that all of them would find diagnosing and repairing a fuel injected engine to be much easier than a carbureted engine, because it made sense to them and because they understood how it worked and how all of the various parts interacted. They had no idea how a carburetor works, or how to diagnose it. Give them a carburetor for a full strip and rebuild and they would shake.

I personally have no doubt that a fuel injected engine is far better at controlling the fuel delivery and is more reliable than a carbureted engine. The problem with them has nothing to do with their difficulty to diagnose or repair. The problem for people like yourself who will try to fix a vehicle on the side of the road, is their difficulty to diagnose and repair on the side of the road compared to doing the same with a carbureted engine. There is a greater inability to diagnose a greater number of symptoms without special tooling, even if that is only a scanner and a multi-meter, as compared to a carbureted engine. In a garage setting where the diagnostic tools are available, competent younger mechanics now a days would have no more difficulty diagnosing and repairing the fuel injection system than old timers had repairing engines aspirated with carburetors. They have all grown up with electronics and understand it, so it is not intimidating to them. They would find a carburetor intimidating.

This assumes all things being equal of course, such as competence and skill level.
i.e. An incompetent mechanic working on a carbureted engine that had a sophisticated induction system such as what was in place just before fuel injection took over, doesn't fair any better diagnosing a fuel delivery/induction problem on that carbureted engine than an incompetent mechanic who is working on a fuel injected engine does.

I suspect that XX number of years from now when vehicles have been electric for a long time, everyone will look at fuel injected ICE engines and wonder how they work, won't be able to diagnose them very well, and will refuse to even consider looking at a carburetor because that would be beyond foreign to them.
 
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Thanks Paul. If ever I need to do such a repair again, I can give them a try.

The problem was the stepper motor that moves the gauge needle. I ended up unsoldering a fuel gauge stepper motor from an instrument cluster from a scrap vehicle and soldering it in to my cluster. It has been working fine since last fall.
ISS automotive. com has the guage cluster in stock for $200.00 US dollars. Just replaced my sisters Inst Cluster in her 2002 GMC envoy.
 

Uncle Phil

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Yes, really. You might be an exception but you can't be serious about stating carbs don't gum up in a short time. It's the main problem with carbed engines not run on a regular basis.

Yes, PGM-FI is Honda's proprietary fuel injection system that debuted in 1982 thereabouts. There are component differences in vehicle applications of course and over 40 years there are firmware differences but under the tank of the bikes mentioned so to speak it's one system. In motorcycles I already mentioned it is the same system.
2 reasons. A small booger of goo from intake blow-by in 1 of 5 vacuum lines or the 5 way tee causes a trigger of the FI light or the other is an ECU fault regarding the right hand knock sensor trouble code 26. Neither are strictly FI issues.
See immediately above. An ECU fault is related to RH knock sensor issues. Not an issue with the FI system itself.
By most benchmarks the ST1100 and ST1300 are bullet proof and neither are hobbled by reliability issues. BTW, the question wasn't how to justify a barn full of old ST1100s. It was what you do if you have to fix FI after 20 years.
Since I don't have a ST1300 when I see some post problems with ECU/FI, I just figured the topic heading is correct.
I don't read them in depth because I don't have a ST1300.
BTW, I don't have to have a justification for having a barn full of ST1100s - I do what I do because it makes sense to me. :biggrin:
I figure other fellers can do what makes sense to them.
But I doubt I will have a ST1100 sitting around because I can't get a part for it. ;)
Also I presumed you were talking about carbed engines that set up for a period of time but I just wanted to be clear about that.
To state that 'Carbs gum up in a few months, FI does not. Just sayin' without the clarification of them setting up for a good while is a bit confusing.
I think this horse has been whipped enough - I believe I'll get off this topic so the thread can get back to the NT1100.
You may carry on if you wish.
;)
 

Andrew Shadow

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They quit making parts for these machines because tight wads like us would still be driving / riding our current vehicles for the next 50 years.
In a matter of speaking yes. They are not a charity. If they are not making an acceptable return on making those spare parts, they aren't going to make them.

The writing was on the wall years ago when I was still working at a GM dealer. Even way back then GM had statistics showing that having a model for sale for five years, and the subsequent replacement parts available for five years after that, was pretty much the limit of their return on investment. After five years the public moves on and is no longer interested in that model. Five years after that it costs more to produce, stock and distribute the spare parts than they make on them because by then their market share for those spare parts has declined due to a flood of jobber and scrap parts available on the market.
 

Uncle Phil

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I have to wonder how much of what you write is because carburetors is what you are familiar with, and what you know and understand. I used to work as GM factory certified mechanic in a GM dealership.
Well, I understand FI (maybe not in depth that you do) and used to be quite a motorhead (rebuilding engines, performance mods, etc.).
Holley even has a replacement product that looks just like their old 'dual pumper' carbs but is fuel injected.
IIRC, the electronics are in a small box you can easily mount to the firewall.
I even looked into putting FI on a ST1100 - no doubt it could be done but it's just too much sugar for a nickel with very small gains.
I've got close to 50 years experience with computer hardware/software, machine controllers, PLCs, etc. starting way back on the beginning when you could fill a room and heat the whole house with one small computer system.
My whole point is electronics are great until they are not - that is my point of reference.
I've seen many of them fail over the years in critical applications and dealt with recovering from the mess.
Not that you can't tear a diaphragm in a carb while on the road but it's pretty rare - most ST1100 carb issues are from sitting around not running around. ;)
I'm not of the persuasion that FI is bad but my original statement was what will all these new computer based motorcycle 'addons' look like in twenty years - not just FI but electronic suspension, various riding modes, etc.
I remember when a rider was on new BMW 1600 and his throttle sensor went south - reasonably simple electronic part.
He had to slowly limp to a dealer to get it replaced before he could get back home - fortunately BMW had designed 'limp mode' into the system.
I've been in electronics long enough to live through the 'twenty year' scenario more times that I care to remember. :biggrin:
 

Beeflips

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At least we're talking ECU's and not points and condensers like I just put on a tractor recently. :rolleyes:

With all this said, I felt like I knocked the NT a little because I called it a dressed up Africa Twin, but I want to make it clear that I have always been a Africa Twin admirer and wished I had one for woods riding, but I just can't see it in touring bike form. If I ever had the chance to try one though (Africa Twin or NT1100), I most certainly would.
 

Uncle Phil

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At least we're talking ECU's and not points and condensers like I just put on a tractor recently. :rolleyes:
Or Amal 'Wash your hands in gas' carbs or the mysterious Zener Diodes ....
Old Farmall, John Deere, or Case by any chance?
I use have an old 'war time' Case tricycle tractor - she loved to do wheelies going up steep hills ... :eek:
I converted it from 6 volt to 12 volt and put a Chevy alternator on it and wired 12 volt lighting.
 

Hound

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There's a one-owner NT1100 DCT with comfort seat for sale on fleaBay UK. It took that owner 27 miles to decide he didn't like it and return it to the dealer.

Yes, twenty seven miles.

Perhaps they expected it to be the new ST, and it wasn't....

NT1100.jpg

It's back up for sale at £12,499 (US$15,035).
 

Mellow

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Wow, seems like a test ride would hv determined that with a lot less hassle.
 
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Picked up my second st last March it’s a 2017 st1300pa with 4K on the mileage, I installed new heated grips, heat control for my vest and after 3500 miles I just ordered a set of Bridgestones and I’ll be all in under $ 11,000 . I rode BMW’s rt1250 didn’t like the boxer engine the st just to smooth to give up.
 

Hound

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Wow, seems like a test ride would hv determined that with a lot less hassle.
I thought the same, Joe.

Come to think of it - assuming he rode it back to the dealer, the decision to part with it must have come at less than 14 miles.

Perhaps Martin's theory about SWMBO is the answer! But what kind of woman would come between a man and his Honda?? :oops:
 

Mellow

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I thought the same, Joe.

Come to think of it - assuming he rode it back to the dealer, the decision to part with it must have come at less than 14 miles.

Perhaps Martin's theory about SWMBO is the answer! But what kind of woman would come between a man and his Honda?? :oops:
I don't know, I'm single...:rofl1:
 

the Ferret

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There's a one-owner NT1100 DCT with comfort seat for sale on fleaBay UK. It took that owner 27 miles to decide he didn't like it and return it to the dealer.

Yes, twenty seven miles.

Perhaps they expected it to be the new ST, and it wasn't....

NT1100.jpg

It's back up for sale at £12,499 (US$15,035).
Wow, 27 miles, that's crazy.
 

Andrew Shadow

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Or SWMBO put her foot down... :biggrin:
You'd know the pose: hand on the hip, ready for battle... ;)
Guy buys a brand new Harley-Davidson Road King. Adds several more thousands of dollars in chrome and accessories to it. Picks it up and rides from the dealer to his house. His wife tells him that either the motorcycle goes or he goes. He rides the motorcycle from his house to his business and parks it in there. My brother in-law buys a two week old new Harley with less than 40 Km (25 miles) on it for about $15,000.00 less than what it was bought for two weeks earlier.

One man's loss is another man's gain.
 
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