NT1100 is it the new ST?

[Uncle Phil]

I have the same problem as you. My old ST1100 is a smooth ride on the super slab at 85 mph. No engine noise and no vibration....sorta like an Acura automobile. These bikes with the one and two cylinders well I don't know. If Honda bought out a ST1100 exactly like my old 1100 except with fuel injection I would by it in a heartbeat.

I don't know - those ST1100s are pretty old - just don't know if you could trust them with them carbs and all ...

 

[red one]

I don't know - those ST1100s are pretty old - just don't know if you could trust them with them carbs and all ...

Last ST1100 was made in 2001 or 2002? If they did a new retro one if they made it with carbs it probably would not pass the now current EPA standards. I was amazed that my across the street neighbor had a 50cc motorcycle with fuel injection. But i see your point i've had no carb problems on mine and she sits at 22 years young

 

[Uncle Phil]

I have a hunch that fixing a carb problem would be a lot easier than fixing a fuel injection problem.
I remember the old Holley duel pumper 4 barrel carbs from my hot rodding days - they were dead simple to rebuild.
My problem with all of this new fangled electronic stuff is it works really great until it doesn't.
And what will it be like to try to fix when it gets 20 years old?

 

[red one]

I have a hunch that fixing a carb problem would be a lot easier than fixing a fuel injection problem.
I remember the old Holley duel pumper 4 barrel carbs from my hot rodding days - they were dead simple to rebuild.
My problem with all of this new fangled electronic stuff is it works really great until it doesn't.
And what will it be like to try to fix when it gets 20 years old?

Yep. Carbs you rebuild. Electronics you remove and replace the affected assemblies.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Yep. Carbs you rebuild. Electronics you remove and replace the affected assemblies.

Assuming you can get and afford the affected assemblies ...

 

[Beeflips]

As much as the ST's seem to have firmly entrenched themselves as formidable sport touring bikes, it's hard to imagine anything replacing them, especially something that seems like the days when the Lincoln Versaills was nothing more than a Ford Granada in a tuxedo, that's how I liken the NT to the Africa Twin. With any luck, this is a stop gap measure until a legit sport touring bike is released by Honda.

 

[Qmc]

Thought I would comment here as I recently swapped my ST1300 that I have owned since 2005 for a NT1100. Manual not DCT. It's a typical Honda. Brilliantly designed for a job in hand, but that job isn't the same as the Pan. I bought the Pan when my wife (own bike not pillion) and I did European touring. Two weeks every summer, 2-3000 miles, and if we were still doing that I would have bought a newer Pan. However, for less focused use, the NT is superb.

It's very comfy, quick, light, well equipped and thoughtfully designed. The bodywork may look odd but it's more effective than the Pan's - I'm 6'2". It's a hoot to ride, although the engine isn't as flexible as the Pan's V4, but it is more economical. Yes the screen adjustment is manual, but I tended to leave mine in one position anyway. No shaft drive. I did hesitate a bit but I had a GPZ1100 before the Pan and in 45000 miles I never replaced or even adjusted the chain - touring Scottoiler and regular servicing covered that, so I'll see.

There are some issues. Panniers won't take a helmet but the top box does. It doesn't have the same imperious invincibility of a Pan, but is a lot more boisterous for a Honda. It also feels plastic in it's build. The panniers especially are poor, and the wiring looks untidy, but Pans were a premium product when launched: this isn't. If the Pan was still on sale now I suspect it would be approaching £20k, not 12.

Overall it's an excellent all-rounder that feels like it can tour. The Pan is, above all, a tourer that can do other stuff. The NT isn't a Pan replacement but is a Honda all rounder, so if that's why you're a Pan owner, as I was, it's ideal.

Just my views, I don't work for Honda!

 

[dduelin]

I have a hunch that fixing a carb problem would be a lot easier than fixing a fuel injection problem.
I remember the old Holley duel pumper 4 barrel carbs from my hot rodding days - they were dead simple to rebuild.
My problem with all of this new fangled electronic stuff is it works really great until it doesn't.
And what will it be like to try to fix when it gets 20 years old?

IDK but there’s plenty of 2002 Pans running around without PGM-FI problems, even more 2002 PGM-FI equipped VFR800Fs, even more PGM-FI equipped 2002 Goldwings, and even more 2002 PGM-FI equipped Honda Civics/Accords/Odyssey models running around. That’s just some of the 20 year old ones. Honda’s PGM-FI has been in mass production for 40 years.

On the other hand what’s the life span and availability of an 1100’s charging system, plastics, hoses?

 

[Uncle Phil]

Well Dave, time will certainly tell!
And you can buy ST1100s so cheap now it's cheaper to buy a parts bike than it is the parts.
Hoses are easily found, alternators can be rebuilt or purchased, and plastics can be removed and repaired and repainted or just left off.
It seems to me that there more issues posted on this board with the ST1300 FI more than the carbs on the ST1100.
Just sayin' ...
YEMV.

 

[ST1100Y]

Assuming you can get and afford the affected assemblies ...

And considering the times we live in, "expiring dates" are already embedded in the firmware...

Also GDPR are of concern, today one cannot replace a battery, engine oil, brake fluid or perform any regular inspection without having the ECU tethered to the MFG's servers for the "service interval reset", not without sending them all the collected data of course...

 

[Sadlsor]

I don't know - those ST1100s are pretty old - just don't know if you could trust them with them carbs and all ...

Is that why you have 4 whole bikes, and 4 more bikes for parts? [Dangit! All my smiling and laughing emojis aren't saving here! But I kid...]
(You can probably smell the thinly-veiled envy from where you are. I wish I had the space and resources to do the same, only in 1300 flavor.)

 

[Uncle Phil]

(You can probably smell the thinly-veiled envy from where you are. I wish I had the space and resources to do the same, only in 1300 flavor.)

That would be a wise thing given Mother Honda's current habit of not making parts for older bikes.
The ST1300 will probably see the same treatment as the ST1100 - first thing to stop will be the bodywork.
Then other parts and pieces will slowly disappear.
The ST1100 ABSII brain would cost north of $1000 if you could buy one new.
You can generally buy a ST1100 ABSII complete parts bike for less than that (non-runner but intact).

 

[Andrew Shadow]

given Mother Honda's current habit of not making parts for older bikes.

They are not alone.

Last fall the fuel gauge stopped working in my 2010 GMC. The gauge itself was the problem, so I needed a new gauge- no longer available.
The complete instrument cluster was not expensive, so I thought I'll just change the whole thing- no longer available.
O.K., option three. GM has certified repair facilities in every market where instrument clusters can be sent for GM certified and warrantied repair. I figured I'll send it out and have it repaired. The repair facility responded that they no longer service that model- it is to old and they can't get the parts anymore.

Last week I went to a GM dealer to buy an air filter for this same 2010 GMC. The parts guy tells me he doesn't have one in stock and that he can't order one because it is discontinued. An air filter for a twelve year old GM vehicle is discontinued, really!
He told me that this is becoming more common the last few years. It seems once a vehicle has past the ten year mark, parts start being discontinued. He says that he encounters this often now.

If this continues, vehicles will become disposal items just like everything else that we buy and can not repair.

 

[Beeflips]

The ST1100 ABSII brain would cost north of $1000 if you could buy one new.

When I still had my 99' F-150 the ECU was acting up, couldn't roll down the window all the time and some other things. I couldn't even find a used ECU because dealers were buying them up to use for customers. But now you can buy new ones for $99 or reman OEM for $199. I sold it because I figured I'd never be able to find an ECU in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[dduelin]

Well Dave, time will certainly tell!
And you can buy ST1100s so cheap now it's cheaper to buy a parts bike than it is the parts.
Hoses are easily found, alternators can be rebuilt or purchased, and plastics can be removed and repaired and repainted or just left off.
It seems to me that there more issues posted on this board with the ST1300 FI more than the carbs on the ST1100.
Just sayin' ...
YEMV.

That's just it Phil.... unless you have some forum threads in mind there aren't any FI specific issues with the 1300. Honda's PGM-FI is a very robust system that has proven very reliable over it's 40 year time in service in millions of vehicles. You are right, you probably can't fix it's electronic brain at home but you never probably never have to fix the FI system. Carbs gum up in a few months, FI does not. Just sayin' ...

There are ground circuit wiring issues that are beginning to plague the ST1300 and with no electricity the FI no workee. Maybe that is what you are thinking about, ST1300 wiring issues similar to the Red Wire in the ST1100.

Related to a post above Honda generally supplies NOS parts inventory for 10 years after a model is discontinued. In the USA the ST1300P was current through MY2018 so parts should be available for some time.

 

[Uncle Phil]

Carbs gum up in a few months, FI does not. Just sayin' ...

Really? I presume you mean if you let the bikes set - which I ain't apt to do (unless I'm down for repairs then I still run them).
BTW, is the same Honda FI system used in cars used in their motorcycles? Just curious.
What causes the mysterious ST1300 FI light that I see threads posted on?
And the search for a spare ECM that pops up?
No vehicle is without issues but if you keep them til they turn to dust as I do, it gives you a different concern for 'repairabilty'.
I always figure simple is goodness when it comes to keeping a vehicle running.
Many days I wish I had my old 57 Chevy back just as a 'backup' vehicle.

ECU Repair? | ST1300 Related | Page 2 | ST-Owners.com
Code 26 | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
26 code | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
ECU failure percentage | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
ST1300 ECU-Knock sensor problem | ST1300 Related | Page 8 | ST-Owners.com
FI code 26 | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
Excessive Idle on cold start up | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
Fuel Injection lite, FI code 25 blinks, Dealer cannot find/Fix | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
F1 light | ST1300 Related | Page 2 | ST-Owners.com

I'm sure there are also some threads on ST1100 carb issues (especially if the bike has been sitting a long time) but those are sample of what I remember popping up on the ST1300. Of course I am presuming the ECU is part of the fuel injection system.

 

[Uncle Phil]

When I still had my 99' F-150 the ECU was acting up, couldn't roll down the window all the time and some other things. I couldn't even find a used ECU because dealers were buying them up to use for customers. But now you can buy new ones for $99 or reman OEM for $199. I sold it because I figured I'd never be able to find an ECU in a reasonable amount of time.

I used to buy 3 year old used Cadillacs because they were about 1/2 price, comfortable cars, and usually low mileage.
But as they aged, the electronics would go wacky (and they had a bunch of them).
They might start and then they might not after they got some age - not the battery but some relay/resistor/gadget buried in the wiring.
The motor would be fine, the tranny would be fine, the chassis would be fine, the bodywork would be fine - but the electronics would not.
As my Momma used to say - 'Burnt child fears the fire'.

 

[Gerhard]

I know a lot of people aren’t impressed by the style of the BMW GS but everyone I have talked to with one seems to be using it as a sports touring machine and not off road so much. If I was buying a new bike I might lean towards one.

 

[Paul]

They are not alone.

Last fall the fuel gauge stopped working in my 2010 GMC. The gauge itself was the problem, so I needed a new gauge- no longer available.
The complete instrument cluster was not expensive, so I thought I'll just change the whole thing- no longer available.
O.K., option three. GM has certified repair facilities in every market where instrument clusters can be sent for GM certified and warrantied repair. I figured I'll send it out and have it repaired. The repair facility responded that they no longer service that model- it is to old and they can't get the parts anymore.

Last week I went to a GM dealer to buy an air filter for this same 2010 GMC. The parts guy tells me he doesn't have one in stock and that he can't order one because it is discontinued. An air filter for a twelve year old GM vehicle is discontinued, really!
He told me that this is becoming more common the last few years. It seems once a vehicle has past the ten year mark, parts start being discontinued. He says that he encounters this often now.

If this continues, vehicles will become disposal items just like everything else that we buy and can not repair.

Andrew, you might give this outfit a call. I have used them before but not sure if they deal across the border. https://www.gmgaugerepair.com/

 

[dduelin]

Really? I presume you mean if you let the bikes set - which I ain't apt to do (unless I'm down for repairs then I still run them).
BTW, is the same Honda FI system used in cars used in their motorcycles? Just curious.
What causes the mysterious ST1300 FI light that I see threads posted on?
And the search for a spare ECM that pops up?
No vehicle is without issues but if you keep them til they turn to dust as I do, it gives you a different concern for 'repairabilty'.
I always figure simple is goodness when it comes to keeping a vehicle running.
Many days I wish I had my old 57 Chevy back just as a 'backup' vehicle.

ECU Repair? | ST1300 Related | Page 2 | ST-Owners.com
Code 26 | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
26 code | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
ECU failure percentage | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
ST1300 ECU-Knock sensor problem | ST1300 Related | Page 8 | ST-Owners.com
FI code 26 | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com
Excessive Idle on cold start up | ST1300 Related | ST-Owners.com

I'm sure there are also some threads on ST1100 carb issues (especially if the bike has been sitting a long time) but those are sample of what I remember popping up.

Yes, really. You might be an exception but you can't be serious about stating carbs don't gum up in a short time. It's the main problem with carbed engines not run on a regular basis.

Yes, PGM-FI is Honda's proprietary fuel injection system that debuted in 1982 thereabouts. There are component differences in vehicle applications of course and over 40 years there are firmware differences but under the tank of the bikes mentioned so to speak it's one system. In motorcycles I already mentioned it is the same system.

2 reasons. A small booger of goo from intake blow-by in 1 of 5 vacuum lines or the 5 way tee causes a trigger of the FI light or the other is an ECU fault regarding the right hand knock sensor trouble code 26. Neither are strictly FI issues.

See immediately above. An ECU fault is related to RH knock sensor issues. Not an issue with the FI system itself.

By most benchmarks the ST1100 and ST1300 are bullet proof and neither are hobbled by reliability issues. BTW, the question wasn't how to justify a barn full of old ST1100s. It was what you do if you have to fix FI after 20 years.