Bones
Your Humble Scribe
Did anyone find pie yet, or are we still debating whose bike is best?
Test rode a 2010 RT today
- Thread starter Judge
- Start date
I do too, and while I haven't owned my BMW as long as my Honda (only up to the 6,000 mile service), I did my own service and found it very easy. I also ordered the GS-911 to be able to read the computer codes (for the 6,000 mile service I used a friends GS-911).
FlexyRacer
Be Seeing You
"Quick aside folks. I don't particularly find it beneficial or productive to read BMW "digs". It's more than a little passe'. I would however be open to hearing something factual or objective relative to the purchase I plan to make".
I was wondering why you started this thread as unless someone else here already has a 2010 RT, you will either get the typical "go for it, it's your life" or some former RT owners will honestly share their negative experiences. It is apparent to me you want one. Just go out and get it and have your own set of experiences with one. They will either be great, terrible, or a mix of both.
I was wondering why you started this thread as unless someone else here already has a 2010 RT, you will either get the typical "go for it, it's your life" or some former RT owners will honestly share their negative experiences. It is apparent to me you want one. Just go out and get it and have your own set of experiences with one. They will either be great, terrible, or a mix of both.
Hi Judge,
I'm a BMW rider, RT, I haven't had any issues but that doesn't mean there isn't. You might want to try one of the BMW specific sites for the information you seek.
That said, the most common problems are with the fuel strips (thermister strip) failing causing not so accurate fuel indication. There is speculation that the 10 is using a float but from what I see in the parts fich, it's still a strip.
Some early issues with the ring antenna, inexpensive repair, carry a spare with you and it won't fail (eilenberger's law)
Fuel pump control module, there is a bypass in case of an emergency
As far as final drives, it's been told that it's 1% BMW won't recall or say there is a problem, why replace 99 good ones to one bad one YMMV on this. There have been changes, research the parts fich and you will see a bearing change, they also dropped the "lifetime" fill and went to initial 600 miles then every 12k
If you get the 10 model, have the dealer check the SIB regarding the stalling issue when coming to a stop, cam/sensor adjustment before you pick it up.
Good Luck
Jake
And yes, where is the pie
I'm a BMW rider, RT, I haven't had any issues but that doesn't mean there isn't. You might want to try one of the BMW specific sites for the information you seek.
That said, the most common problems are with the fuel strips (thermister strip) failing causing not so accurate fuel indication. There is speculation that the 10 is using a float but from what I see in the parts fich, it's still a strip.
Some early issues with the ring antenna, inexpensive repair, carry a spare with you and it won't fail (eilenberger's law)
Fuel pump control module, there is a bypass in case of an emergency
As far as final drives, it's been told that it's 1% BMW won't recall or say there is a problem, why replace 99 good ones to one bad one YMMV on this. There have been changes, research the parts fich and you will see a bearing change, they also dropped the "lifetime" fill and went to initial 600 miles then every 12k
If you get the 10 model, have the dealer check the SIB regarding the stalling issue when coming to a stop, cam/sensor adjustment before you pick it up.
Good Luck
Jake
And yes, where is the pie
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rickj
Former ST1300 Rider. FJR now.
Hey Judge,
The RT is undeniably an awesome bike. We do have to remember that this is in fact a Honda ST1300 site, but many of us really do appreciate feedback on other sport-touring bikes.
While most appreciate hearing about other S-T bikes, some may seem a bit defensive about their ST1300 purchase and feel compelled to pass on their negative opinions of other bikes. I wouldn't get too worked up about it, as most comments are in a positive spirit of debating our great sport.
I rode an '03 ST1300 ABS for years and love the bike, but I now ride an FJR. We can all debate technical issues of which is the smoothest, has the best dealer network, which one has the cheapest maintenance costs, or which brand is the most reliable. However, part of your decision as to which bike to ride is not related to those technical issues. You ride the one that makes you feel good, maybe invokes memories of other bikes you rode, and just plain looks better to YOUR eye.
While I loved my ST, the FJR for me is a better choice and a more fun experience. This is no doubt related to the fact that I rode a FJ1200 for years and that I enjoy in-line 4s. Some may point out that it's not as smooth as an ST, and that's OK. I just love the way my Feejer makes me feel and how it looks when it's sitting in the garage.
Ride whatever bike you make that connection with, and make sure you stick around here and enjoy the company.
Rick
BamaRider
Guy
These threads pop up from time to time.
My 2005 RT now has 63k miles, and a veteran of many tours (mostly in the East) and other then the fact it blows a headlamp about every 12k miles it has been dead on reliable. But the bike has been babied in a fashion the Honda knows nothing about. The dealer is 90 miles away (good ride though) and she goes in every 6-8k miles, those services run about 240 dollars. I guess I could learn to do that stuff myself (relative simple) but just don't seem to get around to it.
Up until last Fall, I took the Honda when I went rode west. The long run outs and open desert seems to call the Honda and its water cooled V4 motor. I've cruised across the Southwest deserts at triple digit speeds so many times on that bike it has sprouted wings. The Honda is very adept in that mode. The BMW can prolly do that, but the motor seems to get "busy" around 100 mph. It will never be as smooth or as fast as the 1300.
I have a Honda bias, been riding them since I was 14 years old (all street bikes) and have NEVER been disappointed in one, then came the ST 11 and the 13, my favorite Honda's of all time.
But I bought the RT just to have something different to ride. I never liked the 1100 series, but the 12s are a altogether different bike. Before making a call its imperative you ride a 1200.
At first I looked at my RT as a novelty. I'm retired, have a nice pension, I come and and go as I please, and reached a point in my life if I want 2 bikes, then so be it.
But as the years and miles went on, and as I constant switch between the 2, I found the RT growing more and more on me. This new RT's transmission was much better then the 1100 series, it comes in a variety of colors, and has more do dads and gadgets then the space shuttle.
What the RT lacks in raw power it makes up in comfort and function. And NO sport touring bikes leans like a RT, and I've been on almost all of them. None have the balance, high ground clearence, light weight, and suspension with the best road feedback of any bike I've ever owned. Just the slightest tilt and the bike leans over, and hugs the line picked. The 1300 does not handle bad, but it just can't hang with the RT.
I've ridden many, many miles with the Hondas, (11 and 13)in the Blue Ridge and Western NC, and can always take the inside line on the Honda's, or even change tracks while leaning. If the corners are tight, with little transition, I can quickly open gaps with any Hondas to my rear (unless they're been ridden by somebody really good) but if the curves are sweepers, or have long transitions, the superior gear box, and slick shifting of the Honda will quickly come into play. You must pick the right gear on the RT, and keep the revs up or you will have to downshift, the ST doesn't care, it will power out in most any gear.
Last Fall I rode the RT to Arizona, and then back to NC. When it comes to just crunching miles, the RT is the superior machine for most people. It has the better seat, wind mgt, and cockpit. It has a excellent cruise control, it is easier to park (don't hafta wrestle it) also carries a load better. I came to love the RT on the long, lonely run outs out there, the bike was so comfortable I felt I could ride all day. I've ridden the 1300 on a few 700-1000mile days, and came away ok, but I'd be lying if I said the RT was not the more comfortable in that mode.
The ability to change suspension settings on the fly is awesome and I use it all the time. A 6 or 700 mile day is a piece of cake with its upright riding positon, and the best stock seat in the business. Stock lighting on the RT is at least 30% better at night then the STs. The bike is very well thought out, I can't think of anything I would add to it to make it better. The stock cruise control, and heated seat and grips, are gonna be better then any aftermarkets on the Honda.
And the RT has something the Honda just lacks- sex appeal. It is very rare I get a compliment on the ST. But I get them ALL the time on the RT. Everywhere I park it, people notice it, and civilians out number rider comments. I get thumbs up at red lights by motorists, and waves when I come around drivers on interstates. It can be parked in a gaggle of Honda STs and the civilians will gather around the RT.
The RT has a higher price of ownership, no doubt. But a decent wrench can wipe out much of that. It will also give some back in gas mileage, tires, and break pads (my RT consistently gives over 50 mpg, loaded and on tour). It is my opinion the BMW is not as reliable as the Honda. I concur, 5-10% of BMWs just seem to have problems. Maybe Hans just having a bad day at the factory? Who knows. But so far mine has been exceptional.
Having said all that, does not mean the ST is not good at all those things. Both bikes are stone stock, seats, handlebars, windshields, everything but PIAA 1100s on the Honda. The 13 also has aftermarket heated grips, that pale next to the stock grips on the RT.
I love the 1300, I ride it across country in a confidence I don't get on any other bike. Making a choice between these 2 bikes can be tough. Why I own both. I often ride the RT on one of my many loops of 60-100 miles, and sometimes I come home, and swap bikes and do it again, and it is a whole different experience, and reminds me the reason I own 2 bikes that do the samething, just different ways.
The ST 1300 has 78k miles, and has shown no signs of slowing down. It is growing more dated by the year, but is still a great bike.
Broadbased failures across the entire product range for many years. You pay the money and take your chances. What bugs me more is the key fob and fuel level sensor failures.
VegasRob
Bones
Your Humble Scribe
Thanks for your reply, Guy. (I've been waiting for you to chime in!)
Your thoughts about two bikes, two personalities is spot on. With my ST and my Versys in the garage I get to pick from two bikes with two different ways of approaching two-wheeled motorized conveyance.
I wish I had a garage full of 100 bikes and day after day to enjoy them, but just having two is pretty fantastic.
Your thoughts about two bikes, two personalities is spot on. With my ST and my Versys in the garage I get to pick from two bikes with two different ways of approaching two-wheeled motorized conveyance.
I wish I had a garage full of 100 bikes and day after day to enjoy them, but just having two is pretty fantastic.
Very good BamaRider, I enjoyed your take on the two bikes.
Blueberry.
I got to test the R1200RT the year it first came out. I loved the fit on me. Gobs of leg room. Light weight... very nice to ride. Loved it. It was wonderful at high speeds.
However, two things killed it for me:
1. The engine vibrated more than a Road King at speeds below 40. That's where most of my daily commutes were. Hated it, but I reasoned that such was the life of a twin.
2. It took a force of nature to push the bars into a constant turn like a cloverleaf on a highway. Hardly flickable at all. The bike seemed to want to stay upright.
Now that there's a redesigned engine... I'm definitely having another look-see. I'd love a 1200RT. :yes:
jdpfms
JD Power
I've loved the looks and riding position of the RT for a good while. For me, the price is a bit high for a new bike compared to the competition. But the big problems for me is: 1. Closest dealer 2-3 hours away. 2. Almost every friend I know that has or has had a shaft drive BMW has had a rear drive failure of some sort (at least 6-7 that I can think of right away). 3. Seems all aftermarket stuff is more expensive 4. Wondering if other things really fixed such as ignition ring antenna etc. Overall, reliability is paramount to me, and I still just can't get over the seeming lack of reliability. I may change my mind one of these days (and just find a rebuilt rear drive to keep in a box to be shipped to me somewhere
)JDP
I know I live in the UK but I do like the 1200RT and had I the money, I would be sorely tempted.
A friend has one, he rides it with monotonous regularity, whilst he doesn't by any stretch of the imagination, thrash the bike, he does enjoy the ride.
In two years he has put 32,000 miles plus on it. HE had an issue with hesitation at small throttle openings in town and this was eventually tracked down to a faulty coil, they said at the dealer.
He loves the bike and despite saying it would be his last bike, I think he will buy something smaller once this one hits 100,000 miles..... he also retires at the end of this year....
As I say, if money was no object I would have my ST1100 and the Beemer... but....
Besides I just bought BlueSTeel and it is a keeper.......
A friend has one, he rides it with monotonous regularity, whilst he doesn't by any stretch of the imagination, thrash the bike, he does enjoy the ride.
In two years he has put 32,000 miles plus on it. HE had an issue with hesitation at small throttle openings in town and this was eventually tracked down to a faulty coil, they said at the dealer.
He loves the bike and despite saying it would be his last bike, I think he will buy something smaller once this one hits 100,000 miles..... he also retires at the end of this year....
As I say, if money was no object I would have my ST1100 and the Beemer... but....
Besides I just bought BlueSTeel and it is a keeper.......
The 2 final drive failures I've had (so far!) certainly are not exaggerated. I'm considering an ST for that very reason, as well as dealership and cost issues. I do see some rear wheel bearing discussion for the ST, but that is still a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to do that swapping out a final drive. Also had a u-joint go, fuel pump. I ride a lot of miles, but fairly conservatively, and have had more problems with the BMW that with all my previous 'Jap' bikes combined... I understand the newer FD's (mine is an '04) still have issues...
BMW's are beautiful machines
In Canada the price is the same, and Hondas depreciate much faster, yes.
But the bottom line for me would be - 100 lbs lighter !!!!!
No coolant or radiators or stupid hoses to ever worry about again
and that ESA .... oooooh .... I want ESA
(once owned an R1150R)
In Europe the Rt is consistently voted No.1 tourer. I own a ST and two Bm's,
the ST is better built and more reliable.
But, I agree with the above - weight.... wife, luggage and myself and we exceed the permitted GVW. With a Rt I'm no where near
As I get older the weight of the ST on twisty roads is starting to bug me.
I think my next tourer will be a Rt - but not just yet
In the US:
ST1300 ABS: $17,699
R1200RT (base): $17,000 (includes ABS but you probably can't find one)
The way I'd buy it:
ST1300 ABS, fairing deflector, heated grips, power socket, access. harness: $18,216
R1200RT: heated grips, socket: $17,300
or "Standard" trim: $17,945 (includes above items plus more)
Looks like Honda has priced their way out of contention if you can get a better-equipped RT for less. Yes, you can debate service costs, repair parts costs and dealer networks, but the RT vs ST decision is harder now that list prices are essentially identical.
pete
ST1300 ABS: $17,699
R1200RT (base): $17,000 (includes ABS but you probably can't find one)
The way I'd buy it:
ST1300 ABS, fairing deflector, heated grips, power socket, access. harness: $18,216
R1200RT: heated grips, socket: $17,300
or "Standard" trim: $17,945 (includes above items plus more)
Looks like Honda has priced their way out of contention if you can get a better-equipped RT for less. Yes, you can debate service costs, repair parts costs and dealer networks, but the RT vs ST decision is harder now that list prices are essentially identical.
pete
jdpfms
JD Power
I wouldn't challenge your numbers and do agree that the ST1300 competition for many people is the FJR and C14 ane their msrps are lower. Saying all that, if anyone buys an ST at MSRP, I've got some swamp land with a MSRP price too for those same buyers
JDP
1129VLD
"71David5"
Only if you're buying a new one every year.
Thanks for the road report on the new RT. Like others have mentioned I've been reading some very positive reviews on the new 2010 model, however, I'd still be wary of the new R1200RT. I rode the 08 R1200RTP for about 60,000 kms.....and I had a lot of dramas with my bike!
We had a whole range of problems with our RT's to the extent that BMW lost the contract to supply our police dept with cycles. My bike dropped an exhaust valve at the 5000 km mark which resulted in the engine seizing! We had bikes with final drive issues, faulty engine immobilisers, leaking rear brake master cylinders and a whole host of electrical gremlins to name a few.
By far the most frustrating thing was the amount of time our bikes spent off the road waiting for parts......on average about 6 weeks for major components. For the past 19 years I've ridden a whole variety of Beemers but unfortunately their level of reliability appears to have taken a slide. I hope BMW after sales service is better in the US of A!
Anyway, good luck with your new bike I hope they've got all the issues sorted.
We had a whole range of problems with our RT's to the extent that BMW lost the contract to supply our police dept with cycles. My bike dropped an exhaust valve at the 5000 km mark which resulted in the engine seizing! We had bikes with final drive issues, faulty engine immobilisers, leaking rear brake master cylinders and a whole host of electrical gremlins to name a few.
By far the most frustrating thing was the amount of time our bikes spent off the road waiting for parts......on average about 6 weeks for major components. For the past 19 years I've ridden a whole variety of Beemers but unfortunately their level of reliability appears to have taken a slide. I hope BMW after sales service is better in the US of A!
Anyway, good luck with your new bike I hope they've got all the issues sorted.
jdpfms
JD Power
Every time I even start to get remotely serious about considering an RT, I read a post like this one. I then realize between my ST and FJR, I've gotten about 125,000 miles without a visit to a dealer for any warranty work except a thermostat on the ST. And I've enjoyed the rides, so why should I want to walk away from Hondakawayamazuki?
JDP