Test rode a 2010 RT today

[TPadden]

The point was you can easily find left over BMWs if they are ones no one wants - like 2006 VFRs 0r 2006 XCountrys. The X series was offroad styled but not off road serious, kind of like a runt GS. Not really a dirt bike. And the S bikes are road bikes but you know that.

Go change your brake fluid or check your valves, you are getting grumpy.

Dave,

Not grumpy; just questioning your point, which I still question.

We agree that when production exceeds demand discounts appear. In the sport-touring (or touring-sport) market Honda, with it's VASTLY greater numbers DOES have greater margin for errors, more and older bikes available, and greater discounts with leftover models for the discount shopper .

Not Grumpy Tom :bow1:

 

[roadancer]

Looking back over the past 10+ years, this discussion has been out there periodically, all with similar ,familiar comments, plus and minus,,the only thing that really changes is the model years and tech bling at the time !
The focus and results of each manufacturer always seems to line up with their philosophies.
You choose!
For myself,,I'm having an aweful time getting rev'd up about leaving the beloved ST11abs!
To me, the heart of a bike is centered around the engine and driveline,,anything else can be tweeked if needed OR wanted.
At the end, it's not what you ride, it's THAT you ride.
ride safe, have fun

 

[dduelin]

Dave,

Not grumpy; just questioning your point, which I still question.

We agree that when production exceeds demand discounts appear. In the sport-touring (or touring-sport) market Honda, with it's VASTLY greater numbers DOES have greater margin for errors, more and older bikes available, and greater discounts with leftover models for the discount shopper .

Not Grumpy Tom :bow1:

Oh you are grumpy too. It's not just sport touring bikes that Honda has made mistakes on - you can buy left over cruisers in the Rebel and VTX lines. Of course Suzuki did not import 2010 bikes at all....Kwack selling left overs too. The recession has been hard on all motorcycle makers where the motorcycle has been replaced as basic human transportation.

Honda did make money in 2009, poor Yamaha lost 1.2 billion British pounds. BMW motorcycles lost money if not for economies of scale from car and bike operations, like Honda. Selling scooters and 125's in emerging countries is where the money is now and post recession to come.

 

[TPadden]

Oh you are grumpy too.....

Am not! I will agree that when you begin a post "Well Tom" it might make me a bit argumentative though.

I know and admit when I'm grumpy. I'm currently in a very good mood. Leaving Wednesday for Colorado and Utah (Miller WSB) with a Geezer .

 

[Judge]

Not asking the price, but wondered if you got a bit of a break off MSRP? Congrats and hope no issues at all for you with it.

JDP

Mine was really loaded up. MSRP was $20,888. My price $19,100.

 

[Tidrick]

Yes you can profit from manufacturer mistakes - my son just purchased a BRAND NEW 2007 VFR with bags for $7999 ($6999 without bags). The dealer had 2 of them just out of the crate. On the flip side I'd hate to be trying to sell a used one .

soooo - HE actually bought this one? Not YOU, then he showed up and absconded with it? (still waiting on my "adoption" papers, there...)

That is a nice looking VFR, for sure!

AND, ditto on the BMW, Judge. So many bikes, so little money... :

 

[Dinkie Diesel]

Like Father Like Son! I'd like to be a fly on the wall. I can hear Jr. (IVth) goading his old man on which is the better bike. His new VFR or the old man's 800ST. Actually, I'd like to see them both in action on the Missouri twisters.

I have never ridden an RT so I can't speak from experience. I did just have a thought cross my mind one day this week. I watched and listened to a BMW pass by. I don't know what model it was other than it was the boxer engine. It dawned on me that the BMW boxer engine qualifies for the same critique I give to Harley. That being old technology. Proven for sure but still dated. I suppose I'd be more inclined to purchase one of their newer-tech, water cooled, in-line fours if I was buying.

 

[Bones]

I have never ridden an RT so I can't speak from experience. I did just have a thought cross my mind one day this week. I watched and listened to a BMW pass by. I don't know what model it was other than it was the boxer engine. It dawned on me that the BMW boxer engine qualifies for the same critique I give to Harley. That being old technology. Proven for sure but still dated. I suppose I'd be more inclined to purchase one of their newer-tech, water cooled, in-line fours if I was buying.

Maybe not a totally fair comparison. The boxer is certainly an old configuration, as is the 45 degree V twin, but I'd wager that BMW has raised the technology bar much higher, relatively speaking, on the boxer than Harley has with its V twin. The 2010 boxer has dual overhead cams and some pretty advanced valve actuation. And of course Chop, Whip, Grate, Grind, Puree and Liquify.

 

[Dinkie Diesel]

I agree. I know they have updated over the years. I should add that I am not bashing. I'd love to have a garage full of BMWs, all models but I'm drawn to the four cylinders.

 

[Sechskant]

Like Father Like Son! I'd like to be a fly on the wall. I can hear Jr. (IVth) goading his old man on which is the better bike. His new VFR or the old man's 800ST. Actually, I'd like to see them both in action on the Missouri twisters.

I have never ridden an RT so I can't speak from experience. I did just have a thought cross my mind one day this week. I watched and listened to a BMW pass by. I don't know what model it was other than it was the boxer engine. It dawned on me that the BMW boxer engine qualifies for the same critique I give to Harley. That being old technology. Proven for sure but still dated. I suppose I'd be more inclined to purchase one of their newer-tech, water cooled, in-line fours if I was buying.

Water cooling, in-line fours = newer technology?

Boxers, in-line, Vee's it's all been done. A radial would be unique but still not new. Not a whole lot to choose from other then modifying firing order and crank / pin offset.

One way or another it's all old technology.

 

[TPadden]

Like Father Like Son! I'd like to be a fly on the wall. I can hear Jr. (IVth) goading his old man on which is the better bike. His new VFR or the old man's 800ST. Actually, I'd like to see them both in action on the Missouri twisters. ....

We did swap rides and I was the first one to hit the VTEC (chasing him on my F800) . I was impressed.

 

[Bravo616]

If there was a BMW dealer close by, I'de own one. I love the K1300GT, the RT just doesn't do it for me. What I think kills the BMW for me anyway are two issues:

1. The dealer network is not that robust. If you take away the poor service departments that some dealers have, the numbers drop even further.

2. Reliability. Tough issue. Some have problems some don't. If you are one of the ones that do, and your warranty is expired, they can be really expensive to repair. In addition to having to wait for some parts to come from Germany. I also hear that even if your bike is under warranty, BMW can give some dealers hell on doing covered repairs.

I do think they are perhaps the most technology advanced bikes out there. I only wish there was a dealer within 50 miles. I'm spoiled by Honda.

 

[Mandel]

While I can't compare their bikes, I can attest that the Honda dealership network is not all it seems. Most of these dealerships have no idea how to work on an ST. They can't even put the tupperware back on properly, or diagnose problems. They may have some guy working on the bike that never touched an ST before.

I would assume that BMW's techs have a lot of experience on their bikes and know how to service the various models. The service may cost a bit more, but (speaking as an ST owner) I would have more confidence in the BMW service network than I do with Honda's.

I have had too may, OUTRAGEOUS, experiences with Honda dealer service that I have absolutely no confidence in their reliability. I would rather pay a bit more, or go a bit farther, for a tech that knew how to work on my bike.

Mandel

 

[Bravo616]

I guess that I am fortunate that so far I've had nothing but good experiences with Honda dealerships. I think that in those areas that don't sell may ST's have those issues. It's a crap shoot any any dealer BMW or otherwise.

 

[hojo in sc]

While I can't compare their bikes, I can attest that the Honda dealership network is not all it seems. Most of these dealerships have no idea how to work on an ST. They can't even put the tupperware back on properly, or diagnose problems. They may have some guy working on the bike that never touched an ST before.

I would assume that BMW's techs have a lot of experience on their bikes and know how to service the various models. The service may cost a bit more, but (speaking as an ST owner) I would have more confidence in the BMW service network than I do with Honda's.

I have had too may, OUTRAGEOUS, experiences with Honda dealer service that I have absolutely no confidence in their reliability. I would rather pay a bit more, or go a bit farther, for a tech that knew how to work on my bike.

Mandel

You are right on, my dealer hired one wrench about a year ago and he is the only one that knows anything about ST's, and at that, he only works 2-3 days a week in our local shop. My bike hasn't been in to the dealer hardly at all, but they know that I do not want anyone else touching my bike but the one wrench.

 

[motomark]

Test drove the RT two times, there is no comparison to the St., which i,ve owned from 06. I just bought another model BMW or else i would trade my St in on a RT, It has the options i want installed at the factory with the factory warranty. the GT is a great bike also but the maintenance is alot more than the RT, but the GT will eat the ST and RT alive on the open road. Happy shopping which ever way you go

 

[pepollock]

In the US, a 2010 R-RT lists for $17,000 ("Basic", but this is fictitious since you can't buy one), $17,945 ("Standard" package: heated grips, cruise control, on-board computer), and $19,195 ("Premium", as above plus ESA, heated seat). Plus $475 delivery. I've been shopping for one in greater Boston and there are very few available. I did find a "Standard" but in the awful baby-poo brown color. BMW seems to like matte paint now and the "Ostra" brown is bad enough to keep me from buying one.

One shop, the largest in New England, had only one R-RT, with the low seat and suspension, and Ostra brown paint. He told me they were probably not getting any more until production on 2011s starts up after Germany's August vacation. Bummer if you wanted a 2010 R-RT. They seem to have lots of K1300GTs with prices pushing $23,000.

So BMW has made my decision for me. No more dithering and agonizing. I'm waiting for Honda's (hopefully) forthcoming ST. And I still have my FJR to keep me riding in the meantime.

pete

 

[Tor]

We must be lucky then,,,,,because my Honda dealer has always treated us very good, they have for years. With the acquisition of two beemers we started a new relationship,,,,,,with a BMW dealer. We have gotten the same treatment there, possibly better. Very very nice people. They have really gone way beyond expectations in areas. We do all maintenance on our bikes ourselves, because it saves money, it's fun, and you bond better with your bike .

 

[FlexyRacer]

I personally know folks who have had the driveline and massive electrical problems with newer BMWs. BMW seems to be more of a crap shoot to me than an ST. There are valid failures that are prevalent whether you believe the internet or not. I love the idea of the new BMW bikes but I just don't trust them anymore. I have NEVER ever had a problem with any of my Honda bikes. If you have the substantial cash and want it, get it. I am just saying: "good luck". Hope you are one of the lucky ones.

 

[ST1300 Alicia]

I bought a new 2010 BMW R1200GS Adventure after much deliberation. $24K OTD as equipped with almost all of the Goodies. I really liked the way the RT rode but it was Not Price Competitive with ST1300, 2007, left over, In The Crate, for 12.7K OTD. I have a Honda Dealer and a BMW Dealer within 7 Miles of my house. The Honda Dealer will let you test Ride a Goldwing after Your Check Clears the Bank and DMV Registration is Done. BMW Welcomes Test Rides. Honda Dealer lets you know after you let your ride leave that they were wrong and your bike is not ready, In Fact They Haven't Even Started to work on it YET. BMW will call you if there's a problem and will give you a loaner Bike. Honda will let you use the Shop Phone to call yourself a Cab. I do all of my own work, Tires and Balance included. I don't care what the Services Cost.

ST1300 is a great Bike and a Fantastic Value. Honda Dealers, Not So Much.
R1200GS Adventure is a Niche Bike. It's a Very Fast Mountain Goat with a Lot Of Cargo Capacity!

Both Bikes are terrific. It just depends on where you are going and what you are doing.