NOTICE !! Honda DCT during slow speed maneuvers!!

[Hound]

My VFR1200X is DCT, and will be 10 years old this year. No clutch failure so far!

 

[Nashcat]

Next time one of TU-TU-FIDDY’s comes up for sale let me know.

John

 

[SMSW]

Once again, we have a sensationalist story that stretches the truth. The video seemed a bit 'off' to me, and I don't have nor have I tried a DCT bike. It is simply common sense. Point one - either the warranty says bumper to bumper and lists everything covered or it says 'wear items' excluded. In fact, the auto warranties I have read are quite specific regarding what is covered and what is not - and Honda happens to be a car company. Point two - anyone who has the exact same failure twice in a short period of time immediately is suspect as operator error. Especially with all the DCT's that have gone before this post and no crowds of people screaming that DCT's are failure prone. If nothing else, were the DCT's failure prone, we would see lots of discussions online and maybe even a recall.

If the warranty did not exempt the clutch, wouldn't any owner, having smoked this second bike consult a lawyer first? These bikes cost almost 30K. Social media is the avenue of last resort...and doesn't always work.

 

[Sidekick]

3 weeks old Goldwing!
Whatever wrong was with the driver parking practice, Honda should have that covered.
This is all about corporate attitude and not about the driver.

 

[red one]

My thinking is one guy that has a YouTube channel would not stop me from purchasing a Honda DCT Goldwing. I gotta have more proof than that. Btw I wonder if the guy is just simply trying to get as many clicks as he can.

 

[MaxPete]

Eeeeeyahhhh.....so, the Gold Wing DCT (or any DCT) is certainly off my list.

I like my good ole' '83 BMW Airhead R100RS - single plate dry clutch that is cheap and easy to replace.

....and like a Tootsie Roll, it lasts a long time.

In fact, in more than 45 years of bike ownership, I have not yet replaced a clutch on any of my bikes - none. Except for the bimmer, those have all been wet multiplate clutches - and none of them have ever misbehaved, despite many miles of use and a little bit of abuse.

 

[Gerhard]

I tend to agree that the failure was probably due to how the owner operated the bike but I would think that Honda should clearly state something like “extended use under 5 mph may cause damage to the transmission” or something along that line in the owner’s manual and not on a back page in half sized print. If the transmission design has limited low speed capability don’t keep it a secret from the owner.

 

[v8-7]

I bought a new car in the 60's and the manual clutch was specifically excluded from the warranty. I thought it was funny when the salesman said " we see it all the time, kids dropping the clutch , spinning the tires and off they go in a cloud of smoke. "

 

[dduelin]

I tend to agree that the failure was probably due to how the owner operated the bike but I would think that Honda should clearly state something like “extended use under 5 mph may cause damage to the transmission” or something along that line in the owner’s manual and not on a back page in half sized print. If the transmission design has limited low speed capability don’t keep it a secret from the owner.

All transmissions can be abused under 5 mph. Should Honda cover a manual clutch under warranty if the owner burns it up with poor technique or repeatedly using 3rd or 4th gear starting from a stop? How about the rider (or car driver) who habitually rests his foot on the brake pedal and warps the brake rotors while wearing out the friction pads? Should Honda replace the brakes for this behavior?

IMHO a large print warning like that is the ones we have warning people "coffee is hot" or "objects in mirror are closer then they appear."

 

[Nashcat]

Honda does warn you to not hold the bike on an incline, using the transmission, as damage will occur!

I guess that’s part of the reason for the ‘hill hold” feature of the brakes.

John

 

[core-aggie]

I tend to agree that the failure was probably due to how the owner operated the bike but I would think that Honda should clearly state something like “extended use under 5 mph may cause damage to the transmission ...
.

This is the opinion of a couple folks in that forum thread, and I tend to agree with that opinion.

 

[core-aggie]

The video seemed a bit 'off' to me, and I don't have nor have I tried a DCT bike. It is simply common sense.

Well, I'd like to clarify the video ... thats the Mod for that forum site ... he couldn't get the notice in the Weekly Newsletter about that thread's author response from Honda. He's not the person with the low speed issue - he simply read the last minute post, word for word, that the orig thread author wrote

 

[core-aggie]

Eeeeeyahhhh.....so, the Gold Wing DCT (or any DCT) is certainly off my list.

From a couple years ago, related to Ford's class action suit related to their (dry clutch, as I understand it) for the Fiesta and Focus , "Ford has proposed an updated settlement of a minimum of $30 million in cash reimbursement in a class-action lawsuit over problems with dual-clutch automatic transmissions in Focus and Fiesta vehicles."

 

[Gerhard]

IMHO a large print warning like that is the ones we have warning people "coffee is hot" or "objects in mirror are closer then they appear."

You are right, on the other hand there are a lot of folks that drive automatic cars with a torque converter and the need to be careful in low speed maneuvers doesn’t exist so if they transfer that knowledge to DCT transmission they are potentially doing damage so why not be clear about it. I use to drive a Fiat 500 and I talking to an owner of the larger Fiat which had a DCT transmission but he didn’t understand the difference between it and a “normal “ automatic, he was complaining about the car rolling backwards on hills. So he would have benefited from an explanation, which may have been in the manual but like most he didn’t read it.

 

[MaxPete]

From a couple years ago, related to Ford's class action suit related to their (dry clutch, as I understand it) for the Fiesta and Focus , "Ford has proposed an updated settlement of a minimum of $30 million in cash reimbursement in a class-action lawsuit over problems with dual-clutch automatic transmissions in Focus and Fiesta vehicles."

Yup - ALL manufacturers muff something from time to time and produce crummy products - so having a problem isn't..._"the problem". The way in which they handle these problems is actually the most important thing.

In my experience, Honda warranty claims can be quite difficult - but fortunately for them and their customers, they seem to have relatively few issues.
My sister has been a loyal Honda CRV owner for many years - but her latest vehicle (I think it is a 2018 or 19), has had airbag recalls, air conditioner problems and several other things. Through all of these problems, her dealership has been slow, unhelpful and even disrespectful at times - plus the supply of revised parts has been at a glacial speed. Getting a new airbag took nearly two years FFS - despite that fact that it is a government mandated critical safety item.

OTOH, Hyundai / Kia has had dreadful durability problems with their 2.0 and 2.4 litre Theta (and other model) engines. These are related to lubrication system contamination from manufacturing boo-boos that often lead to catastrophic crankshaft bearing failures. From what I gather, the company has applied a very liberal policy with a huge number of customers that basically gives people a loaner for a week or so and a brand new short-block installed in their car - regardless of age, milage, vehicle condition or even the availability of maintenance records. I am familiar with one dealership that does about 2-5 short-block installs per week - and has been doing this for several years. I can only imagine how much this costs the OEM - it would be absolutely in the billions of dollars - not even including the lawsuits for burned down homes and apartment buildings caused by engine fires etc.

Now, you might very well say that Hyundais aren't as good as Hondas - but when the response to problems and resulting warranty services of the two companies are compared....

Pete

 

[MaxPete]

You are right, on the other hand there are a lot of folks that drive automatic cars with a torque converter and the need to be careful in low speed maneuvers doesn’t exist so if they transfer that knowledge to DCT transmission they are potentially doing damage so why not be clear about it. I use to drive a Fiat 500 and I talking to an owner of the larger Fiat which had a DCT transmission but he didn’t understand the difference between it and a “normal “ automatic, he was complaining about the car rolling backwards on hills. So he would have benefited from an explanation, which may have been in the manual but like most he didn’t read it.

...and that is because most dealers - especially sales people - have approximately ZERO knowledge of new vehicle technology. From my observations, they often don't know a dual clutch transmission from a bowl of Rice Krispies cereal.

That is a failure of the marketing departments of the automakers - often known in the industry as "the beauty police".

 

[SMSW]

Yup - ALL manufacturers muff something from time to time and produce crummy products - so having a problem isn't..._"the problem". The way in which they handle these problems is actually the most important thing....

OTOH, Hyundai / Kia has had dreadful durability problems with their 2.0 and 2.4 litre Theta (and other model) engines....

Yesterday, at our weekly motorcycle breakfast someone brought up the recent City of Cleveland lawsuit against Kia and Hyundai. Seems these are so easy to steal that the Cleveland PD is spending some ridiculous amount of time chasing down all these stolen cars.

Maybe Hyundai/Kia will simply replace them for the owners as a gesture of good will?

 

[Upt' North]

Sorry.....only managed about 2 mins of the video, the failures were due to abuse, end of.
But many have stated there have been no issues with Honda DCT. If I recall correctly there have been recalls of AT's and NC's for just that. DCT issues. I think it was probably software but that doesn't help much when your bike won't work.
Upt.

 

[diferg]

Perhaps this is a similar situation that I experienced in late 70's. had honda 750-4 with 880 cc cylinder kit, smooth bore Mikuni carbs, velocity stacks, street dominator cam. Kirker 4 into 1 exhaust. The clutch could not stand the engine! After a couple replacements went to private mechanic heavy into competition. He told me the 750 had a very weak clutch and said the 350 clutch would serve me better. I left scratching my head but had no more clutch issues. does the AT have the same clutches as the gold wing?

 

[bdalameda]

Any friction type clutch, if you slip it long enough is going to wear, period. The Goldwing is a heavy machine and it takes some torque to get it rolling or accelerating. My guess is that this particular rider manually kept the machine in too high a gear for the slow speed maneuvers and the clutches were in a constant slipping mode. It was probably really easy and smooth to ride it slowly this way doing these maneuvers but it was hell on the clutch as any forward momentum and even deleleration had the clutch slipping continuously. If he had used a lower gear it probably would not have been as smooth transitioning in and out of maneuvers but the back brake would have been helpful. Just my guess but I have a DCT Africa Twin and I can see this happening. It would be like riding in second or third gear on a standard transmission bike and just slipping the clutch constantly to keep moving. No clutch would stand up to that after a while.