Test rode a 2010 RT today

[MeanST]

..... but they DO expand all the way from a six-pack to an eight-pack .

So there you have it 16 cold ones with ice.

I did a test ride a while back on the RT and the GSA. Though I was expecting a bit more umph with the new engine I really liked the bike and prefered the RT over the GSA...but no dirt test! A great bike but just a little short on the HP for the 5% of the time when you need to stir it up a bit.

 

[roadriderg]

While touring in Florida a couple of months ago, I met a guy on a 04 R1150RT. His RT had two final drive failures in 75000 miles, plus, he was so paranoid about another failure that he had a complete final drive unit boxed up in his garage so that he could have his neighbor mail it to him in the event of another failure. He was stranded many miles from a dealer during both rear drive failures.

.

I went to my local bmw dealer to look at the new r1200rt (slight new motorcycle bug) . Bike looks and sounds nice and is well laid out.

I then asked the sales rep if BMW did anything new on the rear drives to address some of drive problems. The response was "I have never heard of any rear drive failures or problems."

I could not let this go so I replied, "I have a credibility issue with that statement,are you sure you have never heard of an issue with the rear drives?"

She emphatically denied any knowledge or info on any drive line problems. Now this is not a new sales rep I have seen her there for years. If anyone would know she would!!!

I am not sure what to think at this point. Steer clear??

 

[1129VLD]

Point her here: http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/fd_failure_list.php

Although, I doubt she has not heard of the FD issues/controversy.

Deny, deny, deny!

 

[jdpfms]

I went to my local bmw dealer to look at the new r1200rt (slight new motorcycle bug) . Bike looks and sounds nice and is well laid out.

I then asked the sales rep if BMW did anything new on the rear drives to address some of drive problems. The response was "I have never heard of any rear drive failures or problems."

I could not let this go so I replied, "I have a credibility issue with that statement,are you sure you have never heard of an issue with the rear drives?"

She emphatically denied any knowledge or info on any drive line problems. Now this is not a new sales rep I have seen her there for years. If anyone would know she would!!!

I am not sure what to think at this point. Steer clear??

I'm not sure what they are called, but she fits that category of peeps who say the holocaust never happened nor did the terrorist attacks on 9-11 . Or maybe she has just lied so much, her conscience doesn't bother her too much now .

JDP

 

[roadriderg]

I'm not sure what they are called, but she fits that category of peeps who say the holocaust never happened nor did the terrorist attacks on 9-11 . Or maybe she has just lied so much, her conscience doesn't bother her too much now .

JDP

I think her conscience is way overpowered with the idea of a sale!!
Tell the customer anything but make that sale.

 

[Tor]

Bags? We don't need no stinking bags....

+1..just pack light opcorn

 

[pepollock]

She is either a liar, as dumb as dirt, has never visited the service department, or has spent the last five years with her head up her exhaust pipe. I vote for 'all of the above'.

The BMW forums are full of final drive failure postings. A small percentage to be sure, but still an issue. There is also a significant failure rate of RT fuel level gauges.

pete

 

[pepollock]

I just went back to "1129VLD"s post (#126) and brought up the BMW final drive failures site that he listed. All I can say is wow! Holy Cow! Good Grief! and several other epithets I can't post here. I had no idea the problem was so big. And these are just the folks who posted! How many more had failures but didn't post?

My question is: What's BMW is doing about it (hint: nothing) And what is NHTSA doing about it? Sure sounds like a safety issue to me, and if this many Toyota Sienna minivans had a similar failure, they'd be all over it.

I had been seriously considering a new R1200RT this fall, but have now offically scratched that idea. I'd never feel comfortable riding the BM with this knowledge in the back of my mind. I think I'll stick with what I've got for now.

pete
(c'mon Honda, where's that new ST?)

 

[bygdawg]

I didn't note any 2010 models with the issue, but I suppose most of those are too new to be posting significant issues at this point. I've always said that if the initial cost and cost of ownership was less and they didn't have so many final drive issues, I'd be very interested. The other factor for me is the lack of dealerships across the country. You need to be able to find a dealer, if you have trouble out on the road.

 

[Treeman]

I didn't note any 2010 models with the issue, but I suppose most of those are too new to be posting significant issues at this point. I've always said that if the initial cost and cost of ownership was less and they didn't have so many final drive issues, I'd be very interested. The other factor for me is the lack of dealerships across the country. You need to be able to find a dealer, if you have trouble out on the road.

I agree. I sold my R1150RT, due to reliablity issues, ABM modulator failure, rear drive oil leak, etc. I will not even consider another BMW until they solve the reliabily problems. Plus, as you stated, the dealership network is sparse in the event you have a breakdown on the road. :bat1:

Bygdawg

I've been using your tip over bars for the last three years, plus they have saved my ST from major damage during two tipovers while stopped. Excellent high quality product!

 

[bygdawg]

Thanks Treeman. Maybe you've reached your limit with the two tip-overs. As I always say, I hope you never have to use them, but they'll be there when and if you ever do need them. It will be interesting to see this new 1600 that BMW is coming out with, but I think I'll stick with my C-14 or possibly another ST down the line. However, Honda is way overdue for an update to the ST. The new VFR is just way to aggressive in the riding position for me. Staying on topic though, maybe BMW should look at going to a belt with some of their bikes, other than the 800. That would solve their final drive issues.

 

[CJewell]

Okay, well, I have not ridden a BMW at all. Was looking hard at the R1150RT before I went for the 1300 that I have now. Yes, I would like to see what the suspension would do on the highway as compared to the ST. Also, whether or not the RT would get blowed around with the trucks on the road. I commute, hardly any pleasure rides, I know it is a shame. I like the weight and the adjustable windshield out on the highway. I would never say that the ST is the best bike out there. There are things that I wished where different, but not enough to get rid of it. For what I do, I feel it is the best bike out there. As the moto mags have said about all ST's, it just does everything so well. Now for the reason why I am posting, a few months back Motorcycle Consumer News did a two part article on the California and Arizona police departments and the bikes that they have used and are changing to. Yes, the ST was on top for cost and reliability. I have to agree, doesn't matter what you ride, just that you ride. Your money....

 

[CJewell]

Should have added-"for me"

 

[janfmiller]

Here's what I have gleaned on that.

The FD issues that have occured are first and foremost, exagerated by those who frequent the internet. We're talking a very small percentage of FD failures relative to the quanity of bikes on the road.

They also tend to be more of an occurance with bikes that get loaded heavily and often.

They were primarily a result of bearing failures, and sealed FD units that did not receive service/maintenance per BMW. New bearings were added in 08/09, and scheduled fluid maintenance were also added along with fluid level revisions.

Looking at their forums, it is not nearly as epidemic as some would suggest, and seemingly less and less of an issue since the revisions.

Not a big concern to me at this point based on what I have dug up, but nonetheless something that merits doing some homework.

I have a 2004 R1150RT, after 2 final drives, a fuel pump, constantly cleaning the starter to avoid overrun, etc. I decided to get an ST. I did love the BMW but I just no longer want to work on it. By the way, you need to grease the clutch shaft splines every 40K or so, a 8-12 hour job requiring pulling the tranny.
I didn't want to do that again, it is IMHO a design flaw BMW never saw fit to re-design and correct.. much like the final drive problems. A surprising number of BMW RT riders I've talked to have had FD problems... But, like everything else YMMV. RT is a great bike and the new engine is much improved if you don't mind the occasional trip being ruined.

 

[Judge]

I have a 2004 R1150RT, after 2 final drives, a fuel pump, constantly cleaning the starter to avoid overrun, etc. I decided to get an ST. I did love the BMW but I just no longer want to work on it. By the way, you need to grease the clutch shaft splines every 40K or so, a 8-12 hour job requiring pulling the tranny.
I didn't want to do that again, it is IMHO a design flaw BMW never saw fit to re-design and correct.. much like the final drive problems. A surprising number of BMW RT riders I've talked to have had FD problems... But, like everything else YMMV. RT is a great bike and the new engine is much improved if you don't mind the occasional trip being ruined.

We shall see. I can point to many many more high mileage BMW's w/o problems.

I just completed a 1,600 mile ride in just over 36 hours. This bike is absolutely amazing! Tremendous comfort, and when I made it up into the mountains, the handling was incredible and most importantly... FUN!

And wouldn't you know it?...I didn't break down In fact, 5k miles this summer and not a hic-up.

 

[drrod]

Great time of year for an analogy......

How many times does the baseball team with the better statistics make it to the playoffs (not just win/loss record) as compared to a team with "poorer" stats. Doesn't happen everytime, but if you had to bet your own money........?? There are teams that are more entertaining to watch, but have more shortcomings (statistically) than the others. Occassionally these teams reach the playoffs but not as often as the "statistically superior" teams. Not to say they don't, and not to say they are not fun to watch.

Same can be said for BMW bikes. Entertaining, fun, etc. No question, but the statistics just don't seem to be in their favor when it comes to the cost/mile World Series.

 

[Treeman]

Great time of year for an analogy......

How many times does the baseball team with the better statistics make it to the playoffs (not just win/loss record) as compared to a team with "poorer" stats. Doesn't happen everytime, but if you had to bet your own money........?? There are teams that are more entertaining to watch, but have more shortcomings (statistically) than the others. Occassionally these teams reach the playoffs but not as often as the "statistically superior" teams. Not to say they don't, and not to say they are not fun to watch.

Same can be said for BMW bikes. Entertaining, fun, etc. No question, but the statistics just don't seem to be in their favor when it comes to the cost/mile World Series.

I agree. I loved my 04 R1150RT, but just prior to the mileage warranty expiration, the brake modulator failed just a few minutes before climbing Pike's Peak, then developed a rear drive oil leak a few days later. I switched to the ST1300A and have never regretted that decision.

This Spring, I met a 04 RT rider in Florida who has had two rear drive failures. He now keeps a boxed up rear drive in his garage so that his neighbor can ship it to him in the event of another break down.

BMW's are great machines, but I will not consider another until that rear drive issue is solved. Plus, I love the smoothness and sophistication of my ST.:bat1:

 

[Judge]

Great time of year for an analogy......

How many times does the baseball team with the better statistics make it to the playoffs (not just win/loss record) as compared to a team with "poorer" stats. Doesn't happen everytime, but if you had to bet your own money........?? There are teams that are more entertaining to watch, but have more shortcomings (statistically) than the others. Occassionally these teams reach the playoffs but not as often as the "statistically superior" teams. Not to say they don't, and not to say they are not fun to watch.

Same can be said for BMW bikes. Entertaining, fun, etc. No question, but the statistics just don't seem to be in their favor when it comes to the cost/mile World Series.

Actually, "statistically" the odds are very much in the favor of not having serious problems.

Interestingly enough, BMW reliability is MUCH more of a topic of discussion here than it is on the BMW forums. It's internet fodder to a very large degree.

 

[drrod]

Judge,
No question that, statistically, you are not going to have a problem on a BMW. What I was trying to illustrate is, comparitively speaking, are you going to have more or less issues on a BMW than on another brand (eg. Honda) based on apples to apples statistics. We all know of BMW's that went several hundred thousand with no significant issue. We all know the same stories for Honda, Yamaha, etc. Heck, even HD. We also know of examples of all brands that break down early and often. The problem is that most of it is anecdotal. There probably has never been an unbiased gathering and analysis of data. Not surprising since it would not accomplish anything.
However, if I had to bet my own money, I would bet on other than BMW being less prone to having serious issues in its ownership lifetime.

Even the Red Sox win the series once in a while but I would not bet too much on them winning more than the Yankees over a span of several decades. (and I am not even a big baseball fan).

Rod

ps - is Honda's infamous unreliability a topic of conversation on the BMW forums?

 

[Judge]

Judge,
No question that, statistically, you are not going to have a problem on a BMW. What I was trying to illustrate is, comparitively speaking, are you going to have more or less issues on a BMW than on another brand (eg. Honda) based on apples to apples statistics. We all know of BMW's that went several hundred thousand with no significant issue. We all know the same stories for Honda, Yamaha, etc. Heck, even HD. We also know of examples of all brands that break down early and often. The problem is that most of it is anecdotal. There probably has never been an unbiased gathering and analysis of data. Not surprising since it would not accomplish anything.
However, if I had to bet my own money, I would bet on other than BMW being less prone to having serious issues in its ownership lifetime.

Even the Red Sox win the series once in a while but I would not bet too much on them winning more than the Yankees over a span of several decades. (and I am not even a big baseball fan).

Rod

ps - is Honda's infamous unreliability a topic of conversation on the BMW forums?

Rarely much talk of other makes of any kind. However, there are a fairly good number of ST, FJR owners that have switched to those infamously unreliable RT's.

I got where you were coming from. I don't think the analogy translates, but whatever works for you. I've seen pictures of "Nessy" the Lockness Monster as well, but I take that with a grain of salt as well.

Point is, the overwhelming majority of RT owners are seemingly quite happy with the reliability, and I'm not the kind of person who insists on wading in the shallow end of the pool for safety's sake.